Is there light at the end of the tunnel Part 1?

[Bel123]

So I went to sleep last night after the above conversation with W not feeling like crap but woke up feeling like it.

A few things that are on my mind are

Should I ask W in more concrete terms if she wants S or D? Sometimes I feel like she doesn’t want to say those words not to hurt me and sometimes I feel like she doesn’t say them because she has not made up her mind yet.

Her comment about not seeing herself wanting to sleep with me again, I really want to ask if she is planning on sleeping with someone else. I have not ask and I don’t think I should but does the two relate? I wanted to tell her how this is now and it might change and how she is under the fog but I didn’t. It’s so hard to bit your tongue sometimes.

MIL and FIL really like me and telling them about my D might change that but I am ok with that. I am fine with the outcome but sometime tells me that W wants to NOW let them know because if not, they would not be as supportive of her wanting to end the M. Or would not be supportive of OM or someone else but if they knew my cheating before we were M and had a child, they might be more supportive of her actions now. Yes I know mind reading and I shouldn’t. I was honestly hoping they would be the sense of reason to her if and when she brought up the fact she wanted a D.

Also, during this conversation, should I just keep to telling them about my D? I know W said she will talk to her about our M issue on Friday. I don’t want to tell them about that as I think it might be her place to. I also want to let them know that I love her and want it to work out but I am sure she will see that as me trying to get them on my side. At the end that wouldn’t matter because the only side that would count in this situation is W side.

[AnotherStander]

She said there was something concrete she wanted to talk about. She said seeing me in sleeping on the couch is no good for either of us and that she feels bad seeing me sleep in the living room. That I should think about either making the living room my own space (not a common space), move to the basement, or get my own place.

Why did you move out of the bedroom? The bedroom is the throne of the house and the LBS should stay on that throne. The WAS is the one that wants to end the M, so THEY are the one that should feel the inconveniences associated with that choice. If it were me, I would inform W that I'm moving back into the bedroom and then I would do it. I wouldn't ask her permission, nor would I ask her to move out, that's her choice to make. But there is no way in hell she would push ME out of my own bedroom because SHE wants to end the M!!!

I've said this to a lot of people and have heard a lot of excuses about why they "had" to move out of the bedroom. But none of those reasons sounded like anything other than pandering. Pandering does NOT earn you any brownie points with a WAS.

Likewise, the LBS should never move out of the house, although there are some instances where it can't be avoided (WAS owned house outright before M, or house is owned by WAS's family, etc.)

Should I ask W in more concrete terms if she wants S or D?

No. Asking is pressure. Pressure will force her to make a decision.

Her comment about not seeing herself wanting to sleep with me again, I really want to ask if she is planning on sleeping with someone else.

Don't ask, because she will probably lie about it anyway. Act "as if" you're moving on with your life regardless. Detach, get a life, quit worrying about what your W is going to do. It's outside of your control. Control the one thing you can- you.

MIL and FIL really like me and telling them about my D might change that but I am ok with that.

Blood is thicker than water. They are on your W's side, not yours. Do not EVER talk to them about W or your R. You can talk to them, but keep it light and fluffy. If they bring it up just say you both need time and space to think things through and leave it at that.

I was honestly hoping they would be the sense of reason to her if and when she brought up the fact she wanted a D.

They probably won't. They will likely encourage D because they perceive it as a way of ending her suffering (it doesn't, but friends and relatives are blind to that).

I also want to let them know that I love her and want it to work out but I am sure she will see that as me trying to get them on my side.

Yes she will. She will think you're trying to rally everyone against her behind her back. That is the main reason you don't want to talk to them about the M. What you do want to talk to them about is all the awesome GAL things you're doing, so that when they talk to W they tell her "he's doing so well, he's doing X, Y and Z and seems so happy!!" You want to be mysterious, make her wonder what you're up to and why you're so happy without her.

[Bel123]

Why did you move out of the bedroom? The bedroom is the throne of the house and the LBS should stay on that throne. The WAS is the one that wants to end the M, so THEY are the one that should feel the inconveniences associated with that choice. If it were me, I would inform W that I'm moving back into the bedroom and then I would do it. I wouldn't ask her permission, nor would I ask her to move out, that's her choice to make. But there is no way in hell she would push ME out of my own bedroom because SHE wants to end the M!!!

I've said this to a lot of people and have heard a lot of excuses about why they "had" to move out of the bedroom. But none of those reasons sounded like anything other than pandering. Pandering does NOT earn you any brownie points with a WAS.

Likewise, the LBS should never move out of the house, although there are some instances where it can't be avoided (WAS owned house outright before M, or house is owned by WAS's family, etc.)

We use to sleep on the couch together and sometimes in the bed room and almost 2 years ago, during the pregnancy, when we had a lot of issues I kept sleeping in the living room and she kept sleeping in the bedroom. After our S was born, since I had to go into work early, it was a temporary thing until we got into a rhythm. The more distance we got the more uncomfortable it all became. When we went to MC in the beginning, she said she actually preferred it that way. So I don’t think I am in no position to march my way up there now and sleep there. But I do agree with you on the moving out part. We bought the house before we were married and it has both our names on it so I don’t feel I should have to move out. The question is move down to the basement or move to the living room as my own place with my stuff in there. I think when I figure out what I will do, I will have to let her know that I will try to support her in her decision but that should not involve me having to move out since she is the one that wants to leave the M. I have a feeling she will bark at that but that’s fine and she needs to deal with it.

Don't ask, because she will probably lie about it anyway. Act "as if" you're moving on with your life regardless. Detach, get a life, quit worrying about what your W is going to do. It's outside of your control. Control the one thing you can- you.

I keep telling myself that and it is getting easier but still get in my head.

As far as PILs, I am sure they will support whatever she decides and that’s what I told W as well last night. I told her they will support you whatever way you go. I will try to keep it to my D’s situation and try to avoid or not talk about our M.

AS, Thanks again for keeping up with my stich and giving me feedback!

[Bel123]

It has been a good week and that has nothing to do with W and I getting on better (nothing has changed). I did have a talk with PIL about my D who is 9 and they did not know about. It was such a relief after all this time. I think they took it well as they know it was before W and I were married. MIL probed more into our M and I tried as much as I can avoid it but did tell her we were having some issues and are in MC. She also asked if my S and D will ever meet and I told her of my desire to bring D to live with me/us. The next day I spoke with W and she asked me how it went. I told her it was ok. She said she talked to her about it briefly and that she told her about us seeing MC. I asked W how her conversation went (since she was not looking forward to it). She said it that MIL said she has to change her will now since apparently I was in the will if W and PIL die. I said “hmm ok”. W started asking me why I was mad.. I think she was looking to start a fight because she should know better than to think I am looking for money from her parents IN THE EVENT they die. Come on now. And I do understand if they do that but that is not even in my radar. Even though I was more annoyed at her assuming I would be mad, I did not take the bait. I told her I am not mad and don’t have anything to be mad about.


I did have IC the following day and she talked to the MC and thinks the only reason why W is still in the M is she did not know how to break it to her family. I told her I still do love W and would like to work on things but I am ok if she wants to leave. I will continue to strive to be in a better place as a person as man and as a father. I have been a high of feeling good about my recent outlook on the whole situation and the acceptance of it. I hope it continues. Next big convo is about my living situation. Living room, basement, or my own place…. Oh wait, all rooms in the house except son’s bed room should be in play including master bed room. And I shouldn’t have to be the one to make these changes either so we’ll see. Wish me luck. W is a lawyer so who knows, she might have me convinced I should move out of the country J/K lol.

[Bel123]

Last night W asked if I have thought about our conversation of the current living situation. I told her I have thought about it and that my moving out is out of the table for me due to not being there to see S as much as I do now and for financial reason. I also said that besides son’s room, every other room including the bed room is up for discussion for either her or I to habitat. I said I might have slept on the couch but that has not been by choice. She said that I abandoned the bed room and I said I felt not welcomed and that she said she preferred it that way in more than one occasion. I told her I am open to discussing the different options and hope we can come to an understanding. She first said that I can have the bed room if I want and that she won’t be in it. I told her I understand that and didn’t expect her to. She said if she moves out she will take S with her. I told her I understand that as well and I would look to have S at least half of the time. She said “well no more than half and I will fight you for that”. I said I would like to have him half of the time and that I am not trying to take him away from her. She asked if I feel the time I spend with him is enough right now. I told her that I would like to spend more time with him. She then try to bait me with how the reason is because I choose not to. Even brought up how I do dishes and I could be spending it with him. I told her, if you are giving him a bath and I wash dishes, or if she is feeding him and I wash dishes, I don’t see a problem with that. I told her I know you need your space and don’t want me around so I am not going to hover over the bathroom while you wash him or feed him (just the same way I don’t want her hovering while I give him a bath or feed him). I did not take the bait because I know I am spending time with him. I am not also trying to take him away from the time she spends with him or when she takes him to see her parents. I have been trying to give her space and give her time with him alone and I do the same as well. She also tried to bait me with how she does more around the house. I told her that I respectfully disagree with her.


The conversation was turning into something else so I had to move it back to the topic that was at hand of the living situation. She said if I have access to S as I do now and move out, would that work. I told her no it does not as I want to be there with S. I told her she is the one that has a problem with seeing me on the couch and I understand why and I want to help with that situation. I am open to really talking about the different options and see which one works best for the both of us. She does not want to move to the couch, the basement, or move out. So the discussion should be which room. I can see she was getting ticked. I have been placating to most of her demands but I am at a point where I know what is right for me. I am also starting to realize my self-worth and the situation at hand has done both good and bad. Bad because of the person I have become in the last few years (codependent). Good because this process has shown me what I have done wrong in the M and in life and have a clear idea of who I want to be and work towards.


I did tell her if I was the one that wanted out of the M and told her that I feel bad seeing her sleeping in a different room, I need space for my wellbeing so think about either get your own place, move your stuff out of the bed room and fully into the living room, or move to the basement, how would she feel. I told her that since she is the one that wants out, then I shouldn’t be the one to move out. She thought for a while and said she is not the only one not happy with the M. I said true but I am not trying to leave it.


She asked if I am making progress in IC and I told her that I am and asked if she was and she said she is. I am trying not to read into this and will try not to think about it. I have the tendency to not express what I am thinking correctly and feel she thinks I am trying to be mean but I really am not. I was thinking of emailing or talking to her and letting her know that I am not trying to take S away from her because that would hurt all of us including myself, I am not trying to be mean to her, and that I am trying to work with her on figuring things out where it is workable for the both of us in the living situation. I am not set on taking the master bed room but am open to discussion about it. Any thoughts?


I do believe the boat has started to rock but I am not doing anything to be spiteful but to protect myself, my feelings, and needs.

[adinva]

I really admire how you communicated in that story. I liked how you got out of the weeds and back to the topic. The only thing that seems to be missing in the discussion of what she wants and what you want is what's best for your kids. What's best for your kids that you can manage civilly should be the goal.

[Bel123]

Adinva, I agree with you 100%. We did talk about that. She was saying that she is his mother and knows what is best for him. I said I agree with her and I also am his father and want the best for him. I think that is one of the things we agree on and will continue to agree on hopefully.

[Bel123]

Hello all.. I need a help in assessing a situation and how to respond to it W’s text message.

A recap of what has been going on with W and I recently.

W asked for me to move into the basement, completely move into the living room, or move out. After days of thinking about it, we discussed it more and I told my I am not planning on moving out or to the basement. The options are I move into a second room (which is currently her computer and clothes), or the master bed room. She said she will not be in the bedroom if I move in, I said I understand that. I also said we can discuss it more after she thinks about it. The other option was for her to move out and that she will take S with her. I told her I am fine with her moving out but I would need to have S 50% of the time.

Fast forward a few days and she has been trying to pick a fight with me but I have been avoiding them and validating her feelings without agreeing to them. Yesterday she texted and said she wanted to talk. Last night we talked and it was her saying that one of us need to move out and I said I can see where she is coming from and that I understand her feelings and how it is a hard thing. I was still firm in me not moving out (since she is the one trying to leave the marriage which I did not say) and that I am firm in splitting S time 50/50. She talked about how I would need to be responsible for all the bills of the house and I agreed to it. She talked about getting an apartment but that the house is 50% her until and I agreed. She talked about instead of paying rent on an apartment, taking money out of our house and buying a condo with both our names on it and I said we would have to figure out the numbers and how the responsibilities of the mortgages would work. We talked about S a lot and how he has changes our lives and how we view things. We also talked about my D. She kept asking me how I have been feeling and that I don’t share my feelings with her. I try to hold back but shared how I know we haven’t been right for each other and how this process has taught me a lot of what is important and I really feel like I am on the direction of being a happy person. I also told her that I need to value myself and love myself and love my kids and that is what my priorities are right now. I also told her that I can see how hard it has been for her and truly feel sorry for where we are in life right now. Also, how I am sad that we lost our friendship in the process.

She said she needs to do this so that she can find herself and to appreciate me as a person. We went our separate ways after a few jokes and I went to sleep. Felt like a million bucks this morning of feeling like I am in a good state of mind and then I get the following text message.

“I really f*ing hate how you have made me feel and I hope you’re having a miserable day like I am.”

“Its not fair that I’ve suffered so much and you get to sit pretty in the house with your new improved self and not feel the pain. Where the f was yourself improvement when I needed you to be there for me?? I hope the empty rooms and the walls mock you every time you walk in the door.”

I have not responded to her text and don’t know how to respond. I really hate how she is feeling and don’t like seeing her feel this way. What do you think I should do? I honestly feel like I am in a good place in my mind and heart. I feel like I have detached enough for this not to really affect me or my feelings but I do feel bad for her discomfort. I don’t want to ignore her hurt feelings because that will come off as I don’t care for her. I don’t want to share how I am feeling at peace because she will feel like I am not there for her AGAIN like before. How do I handle this situation?

[Bel123]

My reply back to W

"I'm really sorry for how you are feeling right now and how i wasn't there for you.

I did not mean for you to think im sitting happy and improved nor do i feel like i am completely. "

[Bel123]

I have been accepting what IS life as I know it now and looking for ways to improve it. In the last few weeks, we’ve went from the talk of me moving out (which I said I would not) to W now looking into buying a place with part of the equity of our current house. This new place is to have both our names. The other option of renting an apartment seems to be out of the question for her as she feels she will be losing out and feeling kicked out of her house. I told her she does not have to move out but if that is what she wants/needs to find what she wants, then I will support her choice. This confuses me a bunch because I am trying to figure out how all this can work. I don’t want to have false hope as I am really trying to get myself back in order.

W was very emotional about the whole situation as I was calm and cool and try validate her feelings. There were a few times where we both said we wanted the best for each other and we want each other to be happy. She did ask for me not to forget about her and put her somewhere in my list of priorities (I told her the other day that my priorities are myself, S and M). She was asking of what the next steps are and I told her that it is not my place to look for a place for her as I am not comfortable with that. She asked for me to think about it over the weekend and we can discuss next week of what I think.

The part of this that bothers me the most is the no mention of an OM. I know there is one and not sure if it is just an EA or PA but either way it is bad. I do feel like she is in the “fog”. She said she needs space to appreciate me as a person and has been telling that to her friends. At the end of the day, none of that matters since she is still feeling like that’s the only option for her. I feel her pain and think it must be that bad to have to do this but the fact there is an OM makes me sad, mad, and angry. It is very hard to be supportive as a person when my feelings and needs have been disregarded by her for a while. And I am not playing the innocent victim here as I have my share of mistakes.

It’s looking like a long journey to come and it will take patients, self-improvement, self-love, boundaries, no expectations, and more patients. I hope I have it in me.