Well, this weekend was eventful. I continued my DBing by doing things I had previously stopped - working on my cars, hanging with co-workers, doing things with just my kids, not hanging around the house doing nothing...
I was supposed to go to my parents house on Saturday and Sunday to work on their horse barn - mother nature did cooperate - the weather in north-central Florida was pretty terrible, lol.
On Sunday, there was supposed to be a birthday party for the 11 year old daughter of a single mother who works for my parents. The weather didn't look like it was going to allow it. W said 'why not have it over here since we have more seating space?' I had thought about that, but, I wasn't going to even mention it - I just don't need the drama associated with W thinking there's an OW - and just for the record, there's not.
W went to the store and left me to clean up the house a bit. The only thing I didn't have time to do before the party started was folding a small load of laundry that I put on her bed. I did run a load that W said she pre-treated - more on this later...
Everybody showed up about 2pm, the sky cleared and we had a cookout. W left about 2:45 to go to a meeting she had at work. The b'day party progressed great, the b'day girl had a blast - which was the most important thing for me. W got back home about 5:30pm, and was as upbeat as is possible for her. I told her the food had just been put away, and that it was in the back refrigerator. She was somewhat rude to my parents and b'day girls mom - which had the added effect of making me angry, though I didn't show it.
Parents wanted to leave around 7pm, but, the kids (mine and parent's friend) were having a blast with video games and movies so I told my parents to go on, and I'd take them home in a bit. This was nothing different than what my W had done in the past with friends of hers.
At some point in time, I became a jungle gym for a few of the kids. Think I had three kids aged 6 - 13 jumping at and on me playing. I was actually having a blast.
Apparently W didn't like that since she went to her her room, folded that load of laundry and, for the six items that weren't hers, handed 4 to D13 and threw the rest at me.
She then asked if I pre-treated her work clothes. I told her that I thought she had done that, as she stated earlier. She said she didn't, and then asked if I used 'her' laundry detergent - which I didn't even know existed. I apologized and told her I used Purex as that was what I always use. She said 'thanks, it's 8pm and I have to rewash my laundry.'
All of this went down in front of company - from age 6 to 34.
About 9pm I took parents friend and her kids home. We gathered up all the food (she paid for it all, so I sure wasn't going to keep it), gifts, party supplies and kids. Got back home about 9:45. W then complained that we took all the food. I stood there with a dumbfounded look on my face. Other people paid for it, she had almost 4 hours to eat, she knew we were packing everything up and still didn't eat. Granted, we bought a few things (two tubs of baked beans), but, my parents paid us back for them.
This is simply one more nail in the coffin of our M. I'm done trying, I've made the transition from trying to salvage a M to now trying to just keep the peace during the run up to D. My goal is to keep it friendly for our daughter sake...
Asked her if she was tired of being married and alone - we both agree that we are both in this state. W says that even though we may forgive, it's doubtful we'd forget the events over the last few years. Right now we are better at being friends, and that is probably the way it should be - which I agree with.
I'm working on the financial/debt information right now. Think it's going to be interesting. She claims she doesn't want lawyers and that we should be able to agree on most things. Time will tel...
Sorry to hear your W was being a butthead at the party! I don't know if that's a consistent pattern on her part, maybe she was just in a bad mood that day? What you described is certainly annoying, but that kind of stuff happens even in the best of marriages.
Originally Posted By: bblake1968
W says that even though we may forgive, it's doubtful we'd forget the events over the last few years.
Who says you're supposed to forget? There's a blurb in DR that specifically states that forgiving is NOT forgetting. Forgiving is letting go of all the hurt and pain something has caused and putting it behind you. But remembering is what keeps us from making the same mistakes again. Your W phrased it like not forgetting is going to prevent the R from moving forward, but that's not true at all. Not -forgiving- is what prevents progress.
Thanks AS. And actually, that kind of behavior is fairly common for her where my friends and family are concerned. If it were her friends and family and I acted that way, there'd be hell to pay.
I don't know that W can put things behind her. She definitely holds grudges - I'd say at an unhealthy level. What sparked a lot of this drama in late 2011 was an event that reminded her of something else that happened in 2003. The 2011 event was a trigger and it was enough to put her over the edge she was already standing on. Since then, she has wanted out. Two times she has acted like she wanted to reconcile, but, that was very short lived.
When added to that the fact we were both unhappy, and for such a long time, we both feel there's nothing here to salvage except maybe a friendship - for the D's sake. We can laugh at jokes, watch TV, listen to music, clean the house - basically just get along. There's absolutely zero romantic interest from either side at this point. Maybe with counselling it could be found, but, W is completely dead set against counselling - not going to happen in this millennium.
To be honest, I think I'm emotionally exhausted from all of this. It's been a rough couple of years, and even from 2006 - 2011 were far from peaceful. Add in the fact there are several boundaries I have that she will in no way agree to (we did discuss this a little this morning), it's just best to end it while we're still capable of getting along.
I've done a lot of self analysis over the last two months, some of it quite painful. I've certainly made mistakes, and while I can never take those back, I have at least learned from them. No idea what self evaluations W has done, or even if she feels the need. W has acknowledged the changes I have made, and has said I am much closer to who I used to be - but that's not enough. She still believes you shouldn't have to work at love. She still believes her happiness lies in the hands of others.
While I was definitely angry over her behavior at the party, I have forgiven her. Yes, it was embarrassing, but, I doubt she even realizes how she came across - and I could be wrong about this. I still want health and happiness for her. But, until she she realizes she's the one in control of finding happiness, she may never find it.
Honestly, I have to say I may be harboring a bit of resentment and an underlying feeling that she never was sincere about reconciling late last year.
Her tone on R changed in September when I got the settlement payment from my car accident - she was all for R. I used most of that to pay off bills we had accumulated. W spent close to $5k on grand-daughter and a boat load on iTunes purchases and different stuff around the house we didn't really need. We should've had close to $8k to put in savings - it's gone.
The same week I noticed the money issue is the same week W began to change her tune on R - not wanting to anymore. I said nothing to her about the money! She was not working during this time, and if she had been there would've been no need to spend the settlement money. So at one level I've been asking myself was she ever wanting to R at all? Was she just enjoying having some money and all of the problems came back after it was gone?
So, in the mind reading and score keeping above (which I have tried time ans again to NOT do), I'm sure there was some buried resentment that helped lead me to the conclusion that things could not, or maybe even should not be salvaged...
And actually, that kind of behavior is fairly common for her where my friends and family are concerned. If it were her friends and family and I acted that way, there'd be hell to pay.
I had a GF that was exactly that way, and man do I ever know how frustrating that can be!!
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I don't know that W can put things behind her. She definitely holds grudges - I'd say at an unhealthy level.
If that's the case then she doesn't understand what forgiveness is. If she thinks she's forgiving you, but she's still holding a grudge, well then she hasn't forgiven you. Because forgiveness is completely letting go of all of that. Forgiveness isn't about saying the words "I forgive you" at all, it's mentally releasing the wrong.
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To be honest, I think I'm emotionally exhausted from all of this. It's been a rough couple of years, and even from 2006 - 2011 were far from peaceful. Add in the fact there are several boundaries I have that she will in no way agree to (we did discuss this a little this morning), it's just best to end it while we're still capable of getting along.
Certainly you can't be faulted if you come to that decision, you have put in the time and effort to save things. I wish you the best whichever way you decide to go!
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She still believes you shouldn't have to work at love. She still believes her happiness lies in the hands of others.
I really think my W is in the same place. Early on in my sitch I described it as her thinking love is something you can just go out there and find, like a rock waiting on the ground that you can just pick up and make yours. Covey says in Seven Habits that love isn't a noun, it's a verb. It's not something that just is, it's something that you do. Unfortunately Hollywood paints a different picture and many people today fall for the Hollywood hype.
Sigh... Was talking to my mother yesterday after I got home. W came into the same room and hung around until after the call was finished. W asked me what I wanted to talk about the night before - that was a short talk since we were both so tired.
Told her I wanted to talk about the future. Asked her what she felt the future was for us, and she said she didn't know, that nothing had really changed for her. I told her that it had for me - I am no longer sure I have the energy or desire to keep trying. She asked if I knew for sure what I wanted and I said I'm not 100% yet, but, I am leaning towards D.
Told her my thoughts were along these lines:
1. Long term damage done by my shortcomings in certain areas - I understand how she felt, and have apologized many times for not recognizing where and when she needed help (acts of service type) and there's no way I can change the past - but I have worked extensively on becoming a better person in general; which she did acknowledge. W said she hasn't been a saint either, and I told her that part was out of my control - I can only effect change on the actions and words I am responsible for.
2. We've both been unhappy for years - her longer than I. Also told her that our behaviors over the years lead to this and neither of us knew how to break the cycle.
3. I can't combat 24 years of unhappiness - I can't take it away, make up for it or even discuss it rationally since it was such a shock. W then stated she hasn't been unhappy for that long, and we discussed the talk we had prior to her new restaurant opening. She claims to not remember this conversation, but, could not look at me when discussing it. Told her I remember it vividly because it's been ringing thru my head almost daily since.
4. Essentially, we've been living in a loveless, sexless M for at least 10 years - ML once or twice every 3 - 4 months, qualifies as sexless to me. W doesn't think sex is that important in a R - I disagree.
5. Told W there were issues that I disagree with on a fundamental level WRT behavior that is conducive to a good M. Texting, talking and flirting with other men fall into that category; while I think it is wrong, it is equally wrong for me to try to change W's personality if she truly believes it's okay. W said she has stopped a lot of that since leaving her business since it did cause more drama in her life than she ever anticipated. (I avoided asking her why she still locks her phone if there's nothing on it she's ashamed of letting me see.)
6. Told her I was tired of the family bashing; she'd say something mean about my family, I'd respond in kind. It's not fair to either of us since neither family was any better than the other. W said she was just as hard on her family as mine, and I told her where her family was concerned it was her business and I was wrong to ever be involved in criticizing any aspect of her family.
7. We discussed the fact that our D's know something isn't right. We sleep in separate rooms, even when visiting family. (Looking back, W's G'ma & G'pa slept in separate rooms for more than 30 years - W may think that is perfectly acceptable - I think it was simply because they didn't believe in divorce) Told her I've been approached by both older D's about what's going on; that I've told them it's really not their business and regardless of what happens, she is still their mother, she still loves them and still deserves their respect.
After all of this, W asked me if there was anyone else in my life - the answer was NO! There is not. Told her that I felt like we've been married, but, living alone for so long that I just feel emotionally empty. W asked about parent's friend who's daughter we hosted the b'day party for. I told her yes, we talk - even offered her my phone so she could see the conversations and how often. No, there's nothing going on - that I am in no way ready for another R any time soon, especially considering the state of ours.
W said that she's seen how I look at her and that she thinks something is there; that she thinks it's 'a damsel in distress' situation. Told her, I understand how she could see that based on what we do know, but, I have no intentions of pursuit at all. Told W that, if she's working at my parent's house and I'm there, I do play with her kids, that this was no different than how I have acted with family, mutual friends in the past; or friends of just W.
W looked surprised overall, that I was considering D. Told W that I tried to respect her request back in December for a S - which she agreed I have. She then said that at her salary, she'll have a difficult time making it and said our combined incomes looked much better. I agreed and told her that she wouldn't have much in the way of new purchases to make when she decides to move, that I wasn't particularly attached to anything in the house. She said cell phones, rent, electric, car insurance, etc... would be tough on pay for on her salary; and I agreed.
I suggested we end the conversation there and we each think about things for a few days. We did make a few jokes and then she went to the living room to watch TV.
Wow, well, good conversation. I think it was great to talk about it, then have time to think.
M: 9 yrs T: 13 yrs H:34 Me:35, S4, D2, S 7 months Dday 11/12-PA & multiple PAs Dbing 12/12 S 1/13 7/13 H moved back in basement. 8/13 #3 born 10/13 still cheating 10/13 He moves across country, I file for D
Thanks T. Fortunately, my allergies are acting up and it made it easier to hide some tears a few times. W and I have sent some non-logistic text msgs this morning.
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More from last night - mostly ramblings...
When we were discussing possible S or D, W also mentioned that we hadn't really tried to work on our R. I didn't tell her the obvious thing that popped into my mid - which was one of us has been. I did ask her what was going on back in September - October. She said she didn't know what I was talking about, and I told her it seemed like she was trying to jump back in like nothing was ever wrong. She said she hoped that would bring back her feelings, but, it didn't happen.
Also asked her about quite a few times when I asked how her day went, or how she was feeling and she just ignored me. W stated she knows it was rude, but, just didn't really want to talk about anything. I understood, but, told her telling me that instead of ignoring me would have been much easier to handle. Maybe I shouldn't have said that, but, that little step might have put to rest any anxiety on my part during that time.
W also mentioned getting off of Lexapro - said she doesn't seem to feel any emotion at all. Told her I understood that probably better than anyone else after my battles with AD meds; and that only she could make the decision. W said doc put her on it to help her sleep; but one main side effect is insomnia...
Problem is, she DOES go thru emotions - she's happy at times, things DO make her angry and downright mad.
Overall I'm very confused, and I think W is as well, probably more so than I am.
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D23 and I had a long talk this morning too. She's still very angry at her mom for some stuff in the past (when she was 14 or 15, W told D23 that if she hadn't got pregnant with her, she never would've M'd me), as well as the current sitch (D23 thinks I should've left W last year). I told her again that she needs to discuss her own past issues with her mom, or learn to forgive them - as I wasn't going to be a fixer for this.
Told her I understand her hurt, no child should EVER be told something like that, but, I seriously doubted she intended to blame D23 for her unhappiness. Also reaffirmed that her mother loves her, she's just having a very tough time right now.
My H has been on lexapro for about 3-4 years. Personally, I noticed a huge change in him for the better when he started them. He credits this as helping him not cheat for those 4 years until this last time. I then noticed a big change in his behavior a month or so before he started this A. He also started taking testosterone. Wanted to bulk up...
Anyway, I had asked him a few times if he thought he should talk to his Dr about switching meds. Kept saying he just felt numb to life. He mentioned it again last week. He thinks it might be causing some of his sleeping problems. Says he sleeps all the time now.
"D23 and I had a long talk this morning too. She's still very angry at her mom for some stuff in the past (when she was 14 or 15, W told D23 that if she hadn't got pregnant with her, she never would've M'd me), as well as the current sitch (D23 thinks I should've left W last year). I told her again that she needs to discuss her own past issues with her mom, or learn to forgive them - as I wasn't going to be a fixer for this.
Told her I understand her hurt, no child should EVER be told something like that, but, I seriously doubted she intended to blame D23 for her unhappiness. Also reaffirmed that her mother loves her, she's just having a very tough time right now."
Oh my. You did amazing with that. Wow, no kids should hear that. You really are a great dad!!
M: 9 yrs T: 13 yrs H:34 Me:35, S4, D2, S 7 months Dday 11/12-PA & multiple PAs Dbing 12/12 S 1/13 7/13 H moved back in basement. 8/13 #3 born 10/13 still cheating 10/13 He moves across country, I file for D
