Less lonely, not scared..low on patience

[TSquared2]

HI J,

First of all, happy b-day! Do something nice for yourself.

As far as your actions at mediation, you recognize what you did, and that you still have more work to do on you. You recognize that you are still trying to control the outcome. This is really, really good. I think us really left brain oriented people tend to go along with the idea that if we can control all the variables in the experiment, that we will get the desired outcome. But even science can throw us a loop, much less a human being driven at a very deep level by emotions and variables that weren't controlled, at all, when the experiment was in progress so long ago. And we have OUR reasons why we are driven to control the variables, aside from just good science...For me, I just don't want anything to go wrong, therefore if I control the inputs, nothing will...Well this journey has dis-abused me of that long held notion. You'll get there, you'll make mistakes, you'll learn from them, and be a better man for them.

And as far as thinking you were this controlling monster? Maybe some, but not to the degree that you are beating yourself up with I would imagine. This particular time is different, there is A LOT of emotion, fear, etc on BOTH sides, this isn't nominal to profile right now, know what I mean? Cut yourself some slack, and then get busy on YOU! Print out what you posted, really look at it and develop your plan to remedy those things you see as needing it...

And your dark thoughts and wanting to quit? You wouldn't be human if you didn't have them, I still have fleeting thoughts of quitting, kicking her out and saying "eff it". Time to dig into yourself and figure out where those are coming from and get moving through them, your kids are watching and learning, but you know this already. Something helps me with perspective is other people's stories who have it much worse...not only here, but elsewhere in life...the 10 year old who has cancer, etc. Know what I mean?

(con't)

[TSquared2]

Now, about W...

First, this is good that yu recognize this and shared it with her:

Okay. I have had an increasing amount of anxiety over the next mediation. So much so, that I finally decided, though I wish it otherwise, I would be almost as much of a basket case by the next meeting if I didn’t deal with some of this and soon.

I called W earlier tonight to ask her if we could please postpone the mediation for a week or two. I told her that I wanted to be in a better place mentally so we could discuss these important issues like adults and do what is best for our children. I told her I was sorry I wasn’t there yet, but in the meantime, if she really felt like she needed to file and get the process moving that I would understand (not very good DBing I suppose, but I was honest).

To my surprise, she said she had been feeling the same way. She said she wanted to wait a little while as well, she wasn't so sure now and wanted to talk with her counselor. She said she had pushed for the so soon because she thought it would help me let her go. I told her I had agreed to the D because she had insisted. She said we didn't have to rush (as in Jan?).

Sometimes you have to just be honest with them, whether that'll make things better or worse, or have any effect at all. Part of the journey.

She really did feel those things she was saying (BD) and that she wanted me to understand how real ALL of it seemed to her at the time,

Yes she did, feelings are REAL, even if not always "facts"...

She said she had some things to work through and has done so (though later talked about how she is still remembering new things all the time and working on integrating them).

She is making some headway it sounds like. She has a ways to go I imagine...stay out of her way, and yours.

This exchange just reminded me of how skewed her perception of our M and the current situation still is.

See, you got this... And that tells you where you need to focus still, the mirror and the kids.

She said that she thinks she wants to work on our marriage, but can make no promises. She said she has been waiting for that ‘in love’ feeling to return, but it just hasn’t and she doesn’t know if it ever will.

She said she thinks she wants to keep talking, to see if we can reconnect, though at times I may not want to hear it. I told her I was open to talking about almost anything, but I wasn’t interested in hearing about how awful I am anymore.

Script, for now. I get how you don't want to hear about how awful you are anymore...I feel the same. But, you have to let her get her anger out, imo. You don't have to let her abuse you, but this dance is a fine act balancing on the fine line of being a caring, loving human, and being a doormat, imo. FWIW, I let, and continue to, let W burn out her anger...seems if she says it, it dissipates it and due to her lack of validation growing up, self-validates herself, and then she seems to move on (some) lol. And she has very little anger left except for within herself, from her latest sharing with me. Even this morning she told me she has been annoyed with me easily this weekend, but was trying to figure out if it was cause she is ill, or if she is annoyed at herself and projecting it onto me...she wouldn't have said this, and had that self-inspection, a year ago. Time...time...time...

I’ve been starting to feel a bit like a WAS myself, just trying to resign myself to the reality of the situation and get moving, mostly out of anger. I would rather forgive, love her as a friend if nothing else, and be thankful for what she has given to me over the last 25 years. I’m not there yet.

Been there my friend, and really tough right now with how things seem to be moving, to not push. But look at where it is coming from....anger....never a good mental state to make a decision. If you were TRULY done, I think you wouldn't feel that anger, but I'm not done so haven't felt that "other state" so I really don't know...

Hope this helps some and hang in there!!!! Your kids need that great man called Dad!

T^2

[Takevowsserious]

Hi J-

Happy birthday! Hope you did something nice for yourself or fun. Your birthday is still your birthday, no matter what is going on with your W or your M.

Next - listen to T! He won't steer you wrong with advice, I promise you.

Don't be too hard on yourself for your behavior during the mediation. Yes, you made a mistake. We all do. But just recognizing what you did and why you did it is huge.

You're on your journey too, remember.

The tricky thing is, sometimes the MLCer has valid complaints about us. We should validate what they are saying, and address it if it has any validity. However, those complaints do not justify the bad choices they make. Don't let her try to convince you otherwise on that one.

Something I did that may be helpful...

During one of our recent talks, my H said that he thought I didn't like him (total script, btw). I said that I was sorry to hear that he felt that way, and could he give me some things that I said or did that made him feel that way.

He couldn't come up with anything.

So instead of trying to convince him that what he was thinking was wrong, I planted a little seed of doubt for what he was thinking.

Who knows what will happen with that.

Hang in there J, your kids need you now more than ever. Take it one day at a time, one hour at a time if you need to. You can do it.

Any upcoming fun plans with friends?

[TSquared2]

How are you doing J?

[JBolt]

Hi T2, thanks to you and TVS for responding. I'm doing fine.

In all honesty, I'm starting to get a little angry. I have listened to W rant on the phone one to many times I think. My thinking is shifting to, "Well, if I'm not good enough for that crazy &^%$%!, then that's her problem." Someone on the boards has a standard response to folks who hear from WAS wanting to "work on the marriage". It's about really committing, transparency, stuff like that. I don't know if it is AS or Snod or who, but I'm looking for it. I don't think we are anywhere near that, but I want to review it.

At this point, her conception of what our marriage was is so f'd up, I'm not planning on talking about it with her at all. I will be busy and scarce, far less willing to chat than previously. I don't think I mentioned it previously, but I called W the night after our mediation a few weeks ago. I was kind of starting my spiral down and I didn't think I had anything to lose, so I asked her point blank about many of the more crazy things she has said to me. I also told her I will not own all this anger and resentment, it is coming from within her. Anyway, I think some of that may have set in somehow. I don't know. All I know is that at this moment, I'm sick of it.

She told me about her job interview the other day. While discussing it, she said she got a lot of help with her resume from a older co-worker and her husband, and a couple of other people. She rattled off their names like I know who any of these people are (a common family trait BTW, I can't tell you how many times her other family members have done this at reunions and such, we used to giggle at how bizarre it was). I've been out of her life for essentially 5.5 months. I felt a twinge of resentment about this, that she had these relationships that I am totally ignorant of. One of the reasons she was excited about the new job was the opportunity to meet people. I don't want her to be a recluse or anything, but it still hurt a little. Her having colleagues that I didn't know never bothered me in the slightest before, I suppose its because I don't trust her anymore. AND, I guess that's what's really bothering me now. Trust is broken.

T^2, I know you and TVS and everyone else on this board have felt exactly what I am right now. I also know that many of you have been through and had to stomach a h@ll of a lot more than I have up to this point, so I'll quit bellyaching. Hope all are doing well!
J.

[JBolt]

Something I did that may be helpful...

TVS, that is exactly what I was thinking the last time I listened to W read from the script talked with her! I have asked her in past conversations for an example of what she is talking about. Responses have been a mix of "I don't know " (my personal favorite ), to just making sh#t up whole cloth. I mean really wacky stuff in a desperate effort to justify her feeling at that moment. I KNOW nearly all of this stuff was made up on the spot, not something she was thinking about. It's just too half-a$$ed to have been actually thought about .

Okay, fun stuff. Some friends invited me out bowling tonight (yoo-hoo!). I've got leagues tomorrow night. As an aside, I bowled in leagues when I was a kid and had been thinking about getting back into it in recent years but just didn't, I can't understand why not? The kids and I are going to paint eggs on Friday and have our own egg hunt on Sat. morning in the new apartment. Should be pretty fun as we had exhausted pretty much all the hiding places in the house over the last 12 years! Wishing all of you luck, Happy Easter, and quick detachment.

J.

[TSquared2]

I am glad you are doing okay J, the anger is natural, feel it, feel through it...then let it go...it'll take a while, and resurface from time to time, just acknowledge it and feel it.

No, you're not near that...please post what you find about "working on the marriage", I could use the review as well... But I understand that when they are serious, and somewhat out of the fog, that you will know it. Looking back at my sitch timeline, we both were bombed in Sept, and in my sitch, April/May is about when I lost my "horns and tail" in W's mind...she still didn't know what she wanted and still had more stuff to process and integrate, so...keep your expectations <=0...but you know this.

Her having colleagues that I didn't know never bothered me in the slightest before, I suppose its because I don't trust her anymore. AND, I guess that's what's really bothering me now. Trust is broken.

I get this...and she will have to re-earn and re-build that trust. Please be sure that YOU are open to her trying, and earning it, and you giving it if earned.... I know a few guys who have been burned this way and they have not opened themselves up again, and their lives just seem sorta sad...Risk is inherent in love.

It still sVcks losing that "security" of complete trust in someone though...

"I don't know" oh man, I know I wish I never had to hear that phrase again..! But they are running off pure emotion a lot of times, and therefore really don't "know" know, if that makes sense. I think once they really "get" that love is a choice, and maybe more than just a feeling, then they can start to "know"...Ok, starting to get philosophic here...so enjoy your bowling, and Easter, sounds fun!

One day at a time, no decisions while in a strong emotional state..okay?

T^2

[reachingHigher]

Someone on the boards has a standard response to folks who hear from WAS wanting to "work on the marriage". It's about really committing, transparency, stuff like that. I don't know if it is AS or Snod or who, but I'm looking for it. I don't think we are anywhere near that, but I want to review it.

J, I saw something like you described from Starsky in the Piecing forum. I looked at it and some of the comments about it. It looked like an ideal, but in some sitches maybe shouldn't be pushed too early.

In my own sitch, I noticed although I WANT more transparency and commitment, that is coming along slowly after H deciding timidly to delay the D. I can't push him into more than he is ready for. I have to take the tiny bits as I get them.

Last week in MC (our fourth session) the C asked about me not having the password to our checking account and how do I feel about it. H answered for me and said I had been bitter about that but he was willing to give the password to me now as he didn't have anything to hide any more. I said I didn't need to have it right now (thus showing trust in him) but when I start working in the fall would probably ask for that.

Someone else may handle it differently but that's how it has been looking in my sitch. I want the full transparency, full commitment eventually, but don't want to force H into it. I want it out of a willing and loving heart -- b/c he thinks I'm worth it. Not b/c I have to have it.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

It's hard to have your spouse spewing so much at you. In "happy again"'s threads on this forum, he said when he got that way with his W she told him kindly she would have to talk to him at another time and he respected her for that.

I think concentrating on yourself, GAL, involvement with your kids, as you have been doing, will show her what she's been missing. She'll come along at her pace as/when she is ready.

[JBolt]

Thanks rH, looked up a bunch of Starsky's threads, reading them with interest. I'm feeling pretty great right now. My mojo is definitely kicking in. Went bowling Monday night with a couple of friends (students at the university I work at), I had no idea that it was a party for my b-day! There were a bunch of girls there (friends of theirs nearly half my age really), but two of them asked for my phone number. I could hardly believe it. I forgot how good I am with the ladies. Talk about an ego boost! Have no intention of doing anything with them other than more bowling, but what fun. Had leagues tonight and stayed after for a little money ball, won $20. GAL certainly is kicking in hard. Looking forward to having daughters over tomorrow and coloring easter eggs on Friday. W can spin till the cows come home.
J.

[JBolt]

BTW rH, I think it's really great the way your H finally seems to be 'waking up'. Success stories were a big draw for me initially to this site and I love to read about them. I'm starting to see however that the real measure of success for us LBS's is how we recover our lives after our spouses pull the pin on us. I never thought I would be feeling like I would be okay if W and I couldn't reconnect. I mean really okay. If it wasn't for the effect all of this crazy is having on the kids, I think I would be mostly okay with her feeling like she needed to grow up and out of our R. At least now, I'm not feeling like I'm being crushed by the enormity of it all. I suppose 3 months of essentially NC will do that to a guy. I don't mean to brag and it could be the beer(s) talking, but I'm the best man she has ever met bar none, let alone had a relationship with. Hopefully she will realize that as well before it's too late. Definitely her loss if she doesn't.
J.