The saga continues. I was coming out of my little funk regarding how W acted for B-day party and towards kids in general. I was starting to feel a little better then I get home from work yesterday...
W had day off to hang with S5 and I ask how their day went. She tells me her and S5 went to play date with guy from her work and his nephew. This is the guy that she was texting the other day and who's name she said while asleep (I think I posted about that before and I asked her about it that next day so she knew I remembered it). She said it like it was nothing and it realistically probably is in her mind...
It upset me and I was trying my best to not say or do anything and just process it. She must have sensed it and had the nerve to say it was innocent and said he's only 28 (like that makes any difference...). In an eerily calm voice (imagine monotone just above a whisper) I told her it always starts innocent and we've been down this road before and it's a road I'm tired of. I then said I might be done trying to be friends because my friends don't continuously hurt me (she's said/ done other things last few days to me and kids). She started getting angry and I stopped her and said this isn't about a play date or some guy, this is about your lack of regard for my feelings. Then I walked away.
I know talking then was emotion fueled and very dangerous and I've been DBing long enough to know better. Truth be told I was surprised at how far I've come by not escalating it into anything more than a few sentences. I didn't talk with her again and won't say another word for a while (she's gone until Sunday; I'm thinking longer term though). Boys and bills as J3B used to say. I'm also trying to process my next actions. 48 hour rule is in effect and won't make any decisions until that is up. Seriously considering shifting gears soon.
Last night rather than trying to keep busy or trying to suppress the pain I just felt it and acknowledged it. Seemed to work because in the past today would have been rough. It still hurts a little but it's not driving me and I'm actually in a pretty good mood and in a good place.
Thing last night that I came to realize the more I thought about it was the play date didn't bother me much. Not a fan of her taking my son out with another guy but that isn't what the main issue was either. The issue is her total disregard for my feelings, or anyone else's, through this process. I know anger and resentment is her fuel to continue doing this. I also think she feels the need to push people away that have been with her during her "old life" so she can start this new perfect life. I don't know if she's consciously trying to hurt anyone and I'm trying to believe she isn't; the fact of the matter is she is hurting people and I need to protect myself and my kids. (Kids have been really struggling the last few weeks, maybe I'll post the details. It's been one of hardest things I've ever dealt with. My mom is watching S5 today and texted me she was in bathroom crying about something he said this morning when he got up...).
I have plans for most the weekend that I'm looking forward to. I realize that I let myself get hurt by these things because I still haven't completely 'backed into reality'. I still wasn't giving it all up because I didn't want to even though I knew I needed to. I was taking steps but was having trouble with the last few, not an easy thing. Maybe this is what I needed... 30 more hours to think
Personality is who the world sees, character is who you are
Spartan, sorry you're going through this. Let me point out a few things: 1. The fact that you're not letting your W's actions paralyze you anymore is HUGE. You're leaving that dark place where no one wants to be. 2. You said, " I don't know if she's consciously trying to hurt anyone and I'm trying to believe she isn't; the fact of the matter is she is hurting people and I need to protect myself and my kids." Your W is doing what she thinks is best for her given her perception of the world. Choose to see her as a lost little kid rather than a malicious person. She's behaving as a person who has no idea what life is all about. Let her. It's her own journey. 3. Why 30 more hours? Is this a self-imposed deadline? 4. The D has been filed, correct? I did the same: stuck with my desire to save my M even after my H had filed. I didn't want to see that when he took that step, it was definite. Only a small % of couples change their minds once D has been filed, and a large percentage of those go back to the L a few months later to get D. Sorry. But this is what happens, and even though it's not bad to focus on the small prob of saving your M, you can't have your happiness depend on this. Heck, even if the prob was 90%, you should not let the outcome of this determine your happiness. Best to you. Keep being an awesome dad.
Why 30 more hours? Is this a self-imposed deadline?
Yes, 48 hour rule basically says no decisions can be made for at least 48 hours after an event (theoretically not even supposed to talk with W). Kind of a cooling off period. I was just implying I have at least 30 more cooling off hours before I start thinking about my next steps. Can't see anything changing course that's in my head but that's why the rule is in effect.
Personality is who the world sees, character is who you are
I then said I might be done trying to be friends because my friends don't continuously hurt me (she's said/ done other things last few days to me and kids).
Let me ask you this, if a good friend of yours came up to you and told you they took their kid on a playdate with a coworker and their kid, would your reaction have been different? Point being, it doesn't make sense to tie those two together. Why would the play date be grounds for stopping your friendship with W? I think you're not looking at the R as friendship, you have greater expectations and maybe you shouldn't for now. The bigger issue here is you are still not detached! Let's look at Peanut's detachment description again:
Quote:
II. Detachment
Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.
Attached, we take personally all that is said, not said, done and not done.
Our ego gets wounded and we are more inclined to those actions that will undermine our very best chances of accomplishing our goals.
We cannot control the actions of another. We are, however, responsible for our own actions. We are responsible for our own happiness.
If we are detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love. Met with love we are in a position to diffuse the situation and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals.
On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.
Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not the mind saying, ‘I am not getting what I want so I must pull back.’
It is the natural acceptance that I am alone responsible for how I act. I cannot control another person, but I can control how I respond to them."
You're still reacting to your W's actions with anger, bitterness and frustration! If you can detach, you will instead meet HER anger, bitterness and frustration with love! That's where you need to be. As an example, my W took the kids to the beach over Spring Break. When they got back I was asking about what they had done and S10 showed me a balloon animal, I asked him if W bought it for him and he said no, OM (suspected) had. Oops! W was quick to point out that OM wasn't on the trip with them, but he was working in a city on the way back and they had lunch with him. But here's the thing, I didn't care. And I don't mean to say I acted like I didn't care, I mean I really didn't. I didn't dwell on it, I just asked what else they had done. That is detachment, and now that I am detached I can say that there were a lot of times that I -thought- I was detached when I really wasn't. When you well and truly are detached your w's actions will not hurt you in the least.
Originally Posted By: Spartan
She started getting angry and I stopped her and said this isn't about a play date or some guy, this is about your lack of regard for my feelings. Then I walked away.
I know it's tough and certainly I've had my share of falls, but brother, you've got to stick with the plan if your goal is reconciliation. The plan calls for constant PMA. Don't instigate a fight! Don't let her actions get under your skin! Pull back, detach, leave her to sort it out for herself. You say she started to get angry and you stopped her, what is anger? It's an emotion. What are you supposed to do when your W expresses emotions? Encourage her to talk about them and then validate her! Her lack of regard for your feelings? What about your lack of regard for hers?? You walked away, what does that tell her about what you think about her feelings? Sorry for the 2x4's, but sometimes we (me included) need someone to remind us of the basics.
Quote:
I'm also trying to process my next actions. 48 hour rule is in effect and won't make any decisions until that is up.
Your next action is blatantly obvious, and it's going to take a lot longer than 48 hours. DETACH!!!!! You absolutely are in no position to make any decision about your R until you are fully detached.
Thanks AS for the post and I hear what you're saying. I know I haven't detached enough and I know it's something I need to do better. My issue is it's very hard to do 100% of time when living with the person while trying to show them the new you (listening better, WOA, more caring, etc...). These things aren't easy to show in a meaningful way fully detached, especially while living together.
Could I have done better, hell yes. I knew I wasn't even close to perfect in this facet by any stretch. It's one of the reasons I seriously considered S a couple months ago because I thought that would make it easier. When I'm honest I also know I didn't want to detach. Everyone can hit me with 2x4's for this because I should know better but deep down I didn't want to and wasn't ready to fully let go. I wasn't there yet in my growth. I wanted to keep some closeness, call it a false hope, call it my stubbornness, whatever. As I've been told several times on and off these boards, we find out things when we're ready to deal with them. Maybe this is the thing I needed to take the next step and fully detach.
The friend thing...
Originally Posted By: Spartan
Thing last night that I came to realize the more I thought about it was the play date didn't bother me much. The issue is her total disregard for my feelings, or anyone else's, through this process.
She's been on several play dates with other dads that I never had an issue with. This one is a little different due to many other circumstances I haven't discussed on the boards. This hurt but it isn't the only thing that drove me to saying that comment, it was more the last straw. There have been MANY things over the last several weeks building up to this. My friends off the boards have been keeping me in check. The thing that drove the comment yesterday was the way she told me who she was with. It's the constant disregard for my feelings, our kids feelings, my family's feelings, and our friends feelings. Those are the reason that I don't feel like it's possible to remain friends at this time. I hope and pray things change and we can be friends but I have to protect myself and the people I care about.
If she doesn't change and continues doing the things she's currently doing I don't want to be her friend. Besides co-parenting I have no room for her in my life. I wouldn't accept any friend that constantly lies (and admits it without remorse), disregards feelings, and continually commits to things and no shows or shows up late without a call.
Right now I can say I may entertain the possibility of R with W and will likely never lose hope but it isn't my top goal. May not be 'expected' thing to hear on a DB board but it is what it is. This is a change that's been slowly coming the last month or so. My kids are REALLY struggling with how mom is treating me and them. My #1 goal is to protect them as much as possible while not damaging their R with their mom. My other goals are to: Continue to work on my and become the person I want to be Go through this process with dignity, loyalty, and love and show my kids a good example Protect myself and kids in the likely event the D becomes final Somewhere after that would be R with W.
•Do I want to R with her? Maybe. •Do I need to R with her? No (a big change in me is that while I WANT my W in my life I don't NEED her in my life). •Do I need to protect my kids and myself? Yes. •Do I need to detach and give it up? YES!!!
My 48 hour decision that I'm heavily leaning towards now is to detach fully. As I said, conversations would be 'boys and bills' only. In no way am I throwing in the towel, moving out, pushing D quicker, or anything like that. I'm still standing.
Next mediation in a month and supposed final court date according to her L at the end of May.
Personality is who the world sees, character is who you are
Detatchment does give us the ability to react to things in a different way.
However detatchment does NOT require us to become doormats to offensive actions of others.
It allows us to make decisions based out of rational thought versus emotional thought and go from there.
Originally Posted By: AS
Originally Posted By: Spartan
She started getting angry and I stopped her and said this isn't about a play date or some guy, this is about your lack of regard for my feelings. Then I walked away.
I know it's tough and certainly I've had my share of falls, but brother, you've got to stick with the plan if your goal is reconciliation. The plan calls for constant PMA. Don't instigate a fight! Don't let her actions get under your skin! Pull back, detach, leave her to sort it out for herself. You say she started to get angry and you stopped her, what is anger? It's an emotion. What are you supposed to do when your W expresses emotions? Encourage her to talk about them and then validate her! Her lack of regard for your feelings? What about your lack of regard for hers?? You walked away, what does that tell her about what you think about her feelings? Sorry for the 2x4's, but sometimes we (me included) need someone to remind us of the basics.
AS,
Have you read Spartan's entire story or were you just responding to this particular post.
If you have been following along, then I am really not sure how you can encourage him to engage his W right now.
This is a woman who is pursuing D, is involved in an EA, possibly PA, and does not want to talk about her feelings or be validated right now. She simply wanted to be involved in an argument and Spartan chose not to give that to her.
Additionally, for him, NOT engaging, by stating his thought and walking away, was a complete 180.
Spartan,
I think you did wonderfully.
I also think you are actually perfectly detatched right now. Detatchment, isn't about NOT feeling or NOT caring...
It is about being able to feel whatever it is that you feel, and go on with your life, not being controlled by those feelings.
The 48 hour rule is one of my favorites and one that I forget that I have in my toolbox, usually because by the time 48 hours has passed, I don't even remember what it was I was trying to make the decision about.
Which is why it works.
Anyway...
Glad the birthday party went well.
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
