Just got a text message, asking if I was going to be home. I replied, "why aren't you going out?" -- she replied, yes but wanted to know if I would be home before she left. I replied no. She then sent a text that in that case she'll have the cake with the girls because they are dying to eat it and then she wrote, "See you later. I won't be too long. Love you."
Hmmm ... first time I heard, or in this case, saw the words "love you" from her in a long time. I'm not too excited since she is still going out instead of celebrating with her family. But I'm starting to have greater faith in this 5LL concept. Not sure how I can keep gift-giving though under the circumstances. I'll need to think this through.
My W says/text I love you and XOXO every so often, take it with a grain of salt. I love seeing or hearing that, but then I want to hear it all the time and wonder why she wont say/type it more, so I try to just ignore it.
M46,W41 D16,D18 M22,T25 BD 11/12 W moved out 01/13 Piecing 10/13 Divorced 01/15 "Whether you worry or not has no affect on the outcome. But, moving forward, letting go, and making changes can." UrWorthy
Alright Sailing, here come the 2x4's so brace yourself
Originally Posted By: SailingAlone
I said almost nothing, except making noise such as "ah ha" "umm" to indicate I was listening to her.
That is not validation. It's OK to do some of that, but make sure you maintain eye contact and are being a good listener. Otherwise it comes off as dismissive.
Quote:
When she said "I'm pathetic" -- I did say, "no, you're not pathetic"
This is exactly what I mean and why I asked you to type out the convo, so many people think this is validation and it is in fact the OPPOSITE of validation. You are telling her "no, your feelings are wrong." You do NOT want to respond like this! She says "I'm pathetic", you ask "I hear you saying you think you're pathetic, why do you feel that way?" This mirrors her feelings back and encourages her to talk more about her emotions. This is telling her "I hear you and I want to hear more". So it might go: "I feel so confused and lonely, that's why I feel pathetic." "Yes, I can understand why you feel confused and lonely, I'm sorry you feel that way." And STOP there! Don't fix her problems, don't tell her she's wrong, don't argue/ reason/ plead/ justify/ explain. Get her to open up about her emotions and validate them by telling her you hear her and you understand why she feels that way.
Quote:
I did give her some reassurances to the effect "it'll get better, and that it takes time to build friendships."
THIS IS NOT VALIDATION! This is dismissive!! It's telling her "I don't really care about what you're feeling now because it'll be better tomorrow, you just need to suck it up and wait it out." Again, validation is CONFIRMATION that her feelings are real, they are important, they are valid and you respect them. The way she feels right HERE and NOW is what you are validating.
AS thanks for this, I never knew and I always ask what is wrong...
I used to as well (still have to stop myself mid-sentence sometimes), I think as guys we're programmed to respond that way from an early age. And we'll also say things like "my wife was crying last night and I have no idea what was wrong with her." It's like we're taught/ programmed that any display of emotion on a woman's part means something is "wrong". So here we are always saying "what's WRONG?" And they tell us "nothing", meanwhile their BFF is holding them and patting them on the back while they pour out their emotions. Why? Because their BFF doesn't ask what's wrong, they ask "what are you feeling right now, do you want to talk about it?" Women are naturals at validation, but we suck at it, LOL!
AS thanks for this, I never knew and I always ask what is wrong...
I used to as well (still have to stop myself mid-sentence sometimes), I think as guys we're programmed to respond that way from an early age. And we'll also say things like "my wife was crying last night and I have no idea what was wrong with her." It's like we're taught/ programmed that any display of emotion on a woman's part means something is "wrong". So here we are always saying "what's WRONG?" And they tell us "nothing", meanwhile their BFF is holding them and patting them on the back while they pour out their emotions. Why? Because their BFF doesn't ask what's wrong, they ask "what are you feeling right now, do you want to talk about it?" Women are naturals at validation, but we suck at it, LOL!
AS I am eating up your advice on how to validate, I though I was doing a good job, listening, eye contact, but I was saying the wrong things. You seem to have a great grasp on what to say after listening, are there any books that you recommend? Maybe there should be a thread "AS guide to Validating" with more examples! I am writing your comments down, great stuff!
M46,W41 D16,D18 M22,T25 BD 11/12 W moved out 01/13 Piecing 10/13 Divorced 01/15 "Whether you worry or not has no affect on the outcome. But, moving forward, letting go, and making changes can." UrWorthy
Maybe there should be a thread "AS guide to Validating" with more examples! I am writing your comments down, great stuff!
ROTFLOL! Thanks, that's very flattering DR actually touches on validation techniques, but it's something that really deserves a whole chapter. I think I learned the most about validation from Retrouvaille and unfortunately there's no documentation involved, so it doesn't get shared much beyond word-of-mouth. That's a good idea though, it does deserve it's own thread
AS, thanks for the reply. You show the difference clearly. I am a 'fixer' by nature and validation the way you illustrate it does not come naturally. In the next opportunity, I'll try to be more validating and see if there is a difference.
So on her birthday, I left a cake at home with a present of perfume. My wife had some cake with our girls, and then at 6pm left to the gym. As mentioned previously she had texted me. After the gym, she had planned on going out for a drink with her girlfriend and them coming home. Well, she didn't return until a little after 10pm. I got into bed, but I wasn't asleep. I thought it would be foolish to pretend to be asleep. She came in, and I could tell she was feeling guilty. She got into bed naked, and came over to me. I wasn't in the mood. I tried to act "as-if". She told me that her friend arranged a cake and food at the bar, and many of the guys from the gym joined them. I know there is one guy that she has something like a HS girl infatuation with. My guess is that he was there too. Who knows.
She asked me if I was mad. No I replied. She asked, and then badgered me to tell her what I was thinking. I said, "nothing". Eventually, she let up and we went to sleep. Although she woke again at 2am and was tossing and turning.
She did like the present I got alot. Gift-giving is definitely her love language. Also, this is a 180 for me, since I was a terrible gift-giver. She thanked me for the gift, and said she loved it. The next day from work she emailed me that she smelled great.
I think I have detached, but at times like this I realize I have a lot to do still. I think part of my problem, is that when I see positive signs from her, I feel like, "OK, we're on the right path, everythings going to be OK." Essentially, when things are good, I pull-back on DB-ing.
This Friday, I made plans for us to go to dinner and then as a family go to the movies to see Oz (a good move BTW). Me planning these activities and just telling my wife "here's what we're doing" is a 180 for me. We did not go out as frequently as we've been going out. I know part of DB-ing is "no dates". I wonder the opinion of others on whether they see this as a "date." Both last weekend and this weekend, it was a family event. Also, since we're living together and only see each other briefly in the morning and then at night, it seems like it is not pursuing.
So we had a nice dinner, and when entering the movie, the hallway going in is very dark and the kid taking tickets said something about it. When walking down the hallway, my wife comes up to me and starts kissing me, only briefly, like when we were young and first dating.
Behavior like this messes with my head, and I'm not sure what to do sometimes.
I'm beginning to realize that detaching is helpful so that we don't live a codependent life with our partner, even after reconciling. We continue to live independent healthy lives.
M 42 H 39 T10 (-2yrs separation) S8 D5 DD 7/30/11 (EA&PA) Reconciled 6/2013 Separation in works 1/2017
I agree. Just enjoy the kiss. My W messes with my head too. She will stay down stairs for hours while I get the kids to sleep. I will then go to sleep. She then comes to bed and wants to ML. Then treats me like a roommate from then on. I have no idea where she stands. But I am not going to ask either.
M 37 W 36 T22 M14 D8 D4 8/2012 distanced BD 11/2012 (likely wants D. Feelings have changed.) W move out date: June 8th.
