Decent weekend. D23 is still in town. I was playing with grand-daughter yesterday and talking to W about D22 (D21 just had a birthday), and her habit of twisting stories so she comes out to look like a victim - which is something we are addressing with her, and she seems to be making progress.
W then said the following (and I'm quoting): "Unlike D22, the only thing I'm a victim of is my own stupidity. I know my actions lead to where I am right now and it's my fault." Well, I was speechless and let her run the conversation and just acknowledged what she was saying and answering her questions while I continued playing with the baby on the floor...
You know, there are times when 'I told you so' just doesn't quite cover it. And I've had a few moments recently where I've had the opportunity - and her permission - to say those very words; They never left my mouth. I learned long ago to NEVER say those words to my W - nothing good can come from it.
This kind of statement makes me stop and wonder what exactly it is she's talking about. The R/M or the issue with her business partnership... Any conclusion I try to draw would just be an attempt at mind reading so I try to quickly push that to the side. Then I get stuck at the thought of is this really believable or is she telling me what she thinks I want to hear...?
Still, I'm having trouble identifying these feelings I'm having. I don't know if I've just become numb or indifferent to whats going on.
I've worked hard to learn the triggers that used to cause major blow-ups and fights; these no longer happen.
I used to really worry about if what I did or said would make W mad; now I'm not as concerned about it and am just doing the things I need to do to be a better me.
I'm not being rude or disrespectful and am still DBing. It's become more like a second nature and I don't even think about it much in my daily actions anymore.
I do not know where she is right now, wrt our R/M, and can only assume she hasn't changed her mind. I know for a fact that I am tired of living in a sex and love starved marriage. There's no pursuing on my part - that stopped cold on Dec. 21, 2012. There are occasional flirtations back and forth, always started by her, but nothing ever comes out of it. Wondering if that was too much of a 180. She's the one who said that all feelings were gone and wanted a place of her own - and I'm trying to respect that.
I can't wait till I can get to the point of not worrying about my wife's reactions. I know how you feel about being tired of being in a loveless M. I am fortunate (I guess) in that we will still occasionally ML. Is it out of love? I kind of doubt it since she never shows me any type of love at other times. It is alot to take.
It does sound like you are doing better overall with regards to being a better person and not letting W "get to you".
Probably a good idea to refrain from saying, I told you so.
Press on Blake. Good luck.
M 37 W 36 T22 M14 D8 D4 8/2012 distanced BD 11/2012 (likely wants D. Feelings have changed.) W move out date: June 8th.
It's not a matter of 'letting W get to me'. In general, women and men do communicate differently, and learning those differences is very important. Many times, either of us would say something that would set the other off and we didn't even realize what it was. I never would've dreamed that a male and female could read the same sentence and come up with different meanings. That's been the hardest part.
I know for a fact my W hasn't read any of the books. Two have gathered some dust and two others are on loan to some friends whom are having some issues - and they're having great success with them. So even if it is too late for my W and I, maybe someone will benefit from my mistakes.
And yes, she's given me 'permission' to say ITYS three times in the last year - twice very recently. My response is always 'I wouldn't like it being said to me, so I'm not going to do that to anyone else' and I continue listening to what she has to say. Might not be the most eloquent response, but, it's the best I;ve come up with on my own...
D23 brought up the conversation W had with her co-worker. D23 couldn't understand why I wasn't angry since it was of such a personal nature. I asked how she knew about it - if she heard it or if W told her since I was still unclear on that. Turns out, W told her. Anyway, I told D23 that W is a grown woman who can and does talk about whatever she chooses, and it's pointless to let it anger me since I cannot change that.
Also, I did tell D23 that she can draw her own opinion about it, that I wasn't going to try to tell her what she should and shouldn't think. But, W is still her mother and since our issues really are not her business, she shouldn't let in affect her R with her mom.
This little revelation does lend credence to some things I was told W was saying a while back, but, at this point it's all moot.
W has also told D22 & D23 that if they had not been born, she never would have married me. That was extremely hurtful to them, yet she has shown no remorse for telling them that. For my part, I was not particularly surprised by the revelations - other than the fact W felt it necessary to tell them and not just tell me. Some of what she's told other people was far worse and more hateful.
While I wish no ill will on W, and really want nothing for her but health and happiness, I'm not sure I'm willing to continue down the path we're currently on. W claims to have lost all feelings of love for me - that's one thing that has not really changed in over a year. When she's mentioned it, I've listened and validated - didn't argue, pursue or any such thing. Yes, she's gone back and forth, but I think that's been more out of guilt for the effect it's had on the family than anything else.
I would no more hold a gun to her head than expect her to remain in a R where she has no happiness or love.
I may be a short timer here, but, my sitch has been going on for a very long time - that's why I feel all of what I've learned may well be too little, too late for my M. We get along, laugh and cut up - but, it's more like friends and W seems unwilling to allow a spark back into our R. It's either what she knows or what she has gathered from talking to her friends, that a D is what will make her happy.
Someone told me last week that, she really does want that, but, she wants me to be the one to file so she will not look guilty of tearing the family apart. Whatever - I know the truth, and I'm as much at fault as she is, I'd never try to blame it solely on her.
Had I known about MWD's books and DBing back in 2006 when things got so bad I hid behind anti-depressants, maybe things would be different now. I don't know; since I don't own a time machine there's no way to find out.
This may be my last post in this thread - maybe time for a new one. I think I may have rounded a corner. We have some financial obligations we need to see thru, but, after that I think it may be time to actually S and maybe D.
Been considering the last few years. Signs of trouble were aplenty.
One was in the ML arena - maybe once every 3 months. W would always use the excuse of her diabetes meds making her sick or affecting her sex drive. This had been going on since 2005. She has since said she just didn't want me touching her.
One was in my hiding from reality - we had problems. After trying to discuss them, rather than the arguments that would start, I went on AD meds to avoid the friction. W did at a later date as well. Instead of dealing with the problems, we just gave up.
One was in the level of respect we've shown each other. It seemed like we got to a point where we were trying to outdo each other in our ability to not show respect. I can't think of anything more destructive, and I have to wonder if we were even aware of it at the time.
So, what were our problems with each other?
W's problems with me (most recent complaints were last year): Didn't help around house as much as she thought I should Wasn't a good father I changed after my car accident And depending on who you believe: Lastly, I never took care of her, bought her anything or did anything for her - So I guess lousy husband in general
I could argue her complaints here, but, what would the point be?
My 180's on these issues are: Making sure, dinner, dishes, vacuuming and dusting is done daily. We do our own laundry, so that isn't an issue. Always make time to do things with the kids - even the adult ones (my girls have disputed my W's interpretation of whether I was a good father or not, which does make me feel better about that one) And of course I changed after my car accident! It took more than three years of therapy, healing, acupuncture, etc.. When I finally got to the point I realized just how screwed up I was (right after BD1), I did take other action and became more of who I used to be - hard work and time. But, some things DO change with age. I feel I've matured in certain areas, while W wants to go back and relive her teenage years... IMHO, the last one isn't worth responding to. I know I'm not perfect, but, I flatly refuse any aspect of the claim I did none of the above.
My issues with W:
She always has to be right - will not agree to disagree or see another point of view. Mind you, I'm not asking her to agree with it, just see that there's more than one way of thinking about an issue or problem. Has been very critical of my family over the years. In some areas, I agree. In others, I do not - but family bashing is not constructive. When I've been asked to help do something, it had to be done HER way - regardless if the outcome was the same or not. Has exhibited a complete lack of respect in many areas - allowing D23's boyfriend to move in (when she was 16); not discussing animals being brought into the house knowing I have allergies; blaming others for the clutter in the house, when most of it is actually hers; I could go on, but, I will not...
Yesterday, she sent me a text accusing her of leaving her no gas in the car to get to work on. This really confused me since she had the car, AT WORK, on Saturday while I had the truck picking up a load of lumber for my parents - I never touched the car on Saturday. This made me feel like she was just looking for an argument. I was able to avoid it by reminding her what we drove on Saturday, but, the accusation really aggravated me.
The above and the fact that W still does not think my issues with her are important enough to discuss, is why I've recently come to the conclusion I have: this M cannot be saved. So far, we agree on everything - she can have anything in the house; she can't afford the house; she have the F250 (even though I doubt she'll be able to afford gas); joint custody of D13 (who doesn't want to leave the house).
But, she wants to stay a 'happy family' until her mother comes down for a visit in June. I'm not sure I can go that long playing house. I don't think it's fair, and I fear it will only breed more contempt unless we come up with a S agreement. I do NOT want to continue living like this.
Her mother knows we've been having problems; she has mentioned to me that W has changed drastically. I don't really see the point in waiting. All three D's know something is wrong - we're sleeping in separate rooms, for crying out loud. I'm not going to sleep in the same bed with her for two weeks in June, just so she can try to make her family believe a lie - it goes against everything I'm made of...
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
Well, I'd wait for some of the vets here, but I think you need to be true to yourself.
If it is not acceptable for you, then don't do it. If you feel you need to separate, then start the process of talking about it.
Head up blake!! Seems like you have decided what you want. But I would wait a few days to make sure it's what you really want.
M: 9 yrs T: 13 yrs H:34 Me:35, S4, D2, S 7 months Dday 11/12-PA & multiple PAs Dbing 12/12 S 1/13 7/13 H moved back in basement. 8/13 #3 born 10/13 still cheating 10/13 He moves across country, I file for D
ad - I didn't think so either, but, it never hurts to get a fresh perspective.
T - I can't say it's what I want, but, after the last two years this has been going on; not to mention the previous years of dysfunction, I just don't see any other conclusion.
More pondering -
While W and I do get along as friends, she has no desire to try to work on 'us'; she feels that if we have to work at it, it's not right. It should all come easily. Simply put, I think from her perspective, she's done and is only here for convenience right now.
Plus, W has no desire for transparency and that is something I would insist on - for both of us. She wants to be able to carry on whatever type of conversation with whomever she wants; male or female. Much of what brought this to a head last year were very sexually oriented text messages between W and other guys - and not even sexually based jokes. She said they were just fooling around, but, I doubt the other guys W's would agree with that (and I have proof that two didn't agree).
Many of her actions really offended our older D's, both of which told her so. She was very overtly flirtatious; verbally and physically. At the time, her opinion was she had to live for herself and not for anyone else.
She's toned it down quite bit since leaving the business partnership - which from my view, adds some credence to my theory that she was looking at the business as a potential way out. When it became apparent that it wasn't going to work out that way, is when she started changing her tone. (I know - mind reading...)
And really, I think just as much damage has been done to me as her from all of the friction over the last 5 years or so. I'm tired of the stress and being the only one trying to change things. It's possible she's just as tired of the same things.
From my view, I can see where we've been living a loveless/sexless/unhappy M for quite a while. I've gotten to the point where I'm tired of feeling like there's a gaping hole in my life. DBing has helped tremendously WRT finding out who I am, and it's enabled me to get to a point where I can see the situation for what it is. And reading other people's sitches and the advice of the many wise people here has really helped.
Hey Blake. I hate to hear how frustrated and down you are. It seemed like things were improving several weeks ago. You have been in your sitch much longer than I have been in mine so it is tough for me to offer much advice except do what will ultimately make you happy.
I hope things get better. I will keep checking in.
M 37 W 36 T22 M14 D8 D4 8/2012 distanced BD 11/2012 (likely wants D. Feelings have changed.) W move out date: June 8th.
