So close I can taste it...

[cat04]

SM,

Mr. Bond isn't the only person who found that comment offensive and I think your surprise at that, shows exactly how much you really don't understand the difference between MLC and WAS.

They are similar sounding, similar looking, but two very different things.

And I will tell you, I wouldn't wish MLC, from either perspective, the MLCer or the LBS, on my worst enemy.

[Intact]

This is actually something I've struggled with. I've always considered my W a WAW but I have wondered if its a MLC.

BD was one day after her 39th birthday and followed lots of conversations of "I just wonder what I've one with my life" now she is running every day and spending a fortune on new clothes, shoes and beauty products.

Apologies for hijacking your thread but this is a concern of mine.

[25yearsmlc]

Not to dictate who fears what, or pretend that this is the final word, but I do want to emphasize here, again, why I personally felt it wasted time IN SOME CASES and in mine, it helped for awhile with one purpose...and then became harmful to me...( my post from earlier, is below.)

But I DID read A LOT about MLCs...some of it fit my h. (Some fits me now, fwiw) but I think the point about researching it helping us to have compassion for our absentee spouse (didn't want to use the term "WAS") is very useful.

I felt more compassion for my h when he "HAD" to go to the "last frontier". Before that time period, yes he'd always been responsible and discliplined, reliable....so his behaviors when we sep were different.


BUT LATER ON, I realized one thing...which was that until I said "no" to something H wanted, h had had great traits/behaviors. But for the first time in our then 25 year marriage, I did say 'no, I do not want to move back to Alaska, truly..." and neither did the kids. THAT is when he snapped...so which is it?

So it's hard to know if my h was simply reacting selfishly b/c he was not getting his way, not getting the answer he'd always gotten before which was always "yes"....sure we'll all move again for YOUR career, and turn our lives upside down for YOU"...

So maybe I just didn't know this about him b/c it was hidden or I was in denial,

OR maybe he had changed?...

OR maybe it was an MLC??

So ask yourself WHY you care about MLC...

I say If knowing more about an MLC helps you have compassion for your spouse, then by all means, READ about it...as long as it does not keep you from FIRST working on yourself.

But if the real reason you're "researching MLC", is b/c you want to believe your spouse will return, despite you NOT really digging deep or changing, then it's a dangerous way to spend your time. You're sitting on your hands not changing and whether it's MLC or WAS, not many return to the very marriage they left.

OR if the real reason you are labelling it MLC, is b/c you're terrified of looking at your own role in the marital crisis, and want to deny that role, or minimize it and chalk the spouses's behavior ALL up to some "crazy wacky MLC", then it's not healthy for you OR for the marriage.

FTR, there are at least 3 people (whom I know) here waiting for their "MLC spouses" to return to them. One WAH (or MLC?) has literally married the OW but the wife is still waiting, and it's been 4 years of his "new" marriage.

Another man is living with the OW now going on 5 years but is not filing for div PROBABLY for financial reasons...so the w is still waiting. She takes his not filing as proof he's not sure. He has never wavered though, and he openly lives with OW and brings her to family events...

AND there is an LBS H waiting for his wife to return...she married OM and then divorced OM and is now engaged to OM#2 and it has been 7 years...he still wears his ring and still calls her his "wife" and does not date and is waiting for her...

FOR ME, those^^^ choices are not options. But they all use the "MLC" label as their justification for "waiting" which they call "Standing". I won't say they are WRONG, but it's not something I could do and I fear it is a misuse of the label "MLC". JMHO.

anyhow, here's what I wrote earlier and fwiw, I had just spent a solid year on feeling confused and lost and reading about MLC, and asking questions that have NO "good" answers...repeatedly...

instead of GAL and creating a new life for me and my kids.

That was mostly wasted time, & that lost time really harmed my kids too...maybe more than me.

Earlier post

"MY comments about not researching MLC so much, may have contributed to this misconception.

I PERSONALLY feel I wasted FAR too much time on MLCs with my h. I believe this for 3 reasons.

1) I'm not sure we can truly "know" which it is, regardless of how much research we do. I don't believe many neatly fit into a category and I don't believe we can honestly assess our own denial about a pattern we missed that MIGHT mean they are WASs, vs MLCers, and I don't believe WE can know what is in their hearts or minds anyhow...

and

2) OUR course of action is the same regardless of whether they are WASs or MLCers....

and

3) spending energy on whether it's an MLC or if it is, what stage it's in or if it's "replay" or due to some unresolved issue in their lives,

takes US AWAY FROM WORKING ON OURSELVES/GAL...which I believe ought to be our priorities."

[SM34]

Indeed it is an interesting argument of mlc vs was. But all I meant was that in either case, the WAS seems to say the same things to the LBS. Thats it. I wasnot saying they are the same. The link I posted was about things that mlc people say, but I have heard almost all of them from my was.

I still dont understand why anyone would be offended. Even if I had said I thought they were the same, its still hard to imagine being offended by it. I mean its someones opinion, so how can it be offensive?

I should be the one who is offended that people are looking for something to be offended by on my threads. But I am not. I am not easily offended and dedonitely not from a comment on this forum.

In my particular sitch I feel there is a little bit of mlc and a little of was.

My wife comes from a broken home, and I think there are unresolved issues. I will throw this out there, and please everyone, dont het offended. But I feel it kay be more common for the WAS to be from a divorcee family, and the LBS not. And so perhaps many times there is a combo of both goimg on.

[SM34]

Wait I just re read my post again and I feel it is ambiguous. I mean to say that WHEN the WAS is from a boken home and LBS is not, THEN there is a little bi of mlc mixed in with walk away.

I think that every marriage has its difficulties, and how you choose to deal with them, or whether you chose to deal with them at all, definitely seems to be related to your own life experience. I feel that people who have parents who are divorced may say they never want their kids to go through that, but they also seem to be the people who most feel that divorce is some kind of solution when you are unhappy, and that the kids are resilient.

That is the stance that my wife and mother in law have taken, whereas my parents and brother and I feel that divorce is not the solution, and that it is a negative experience that will impact my daughters perception of what a family is and how permanent a setup it should be.

Again, just my opinion. I could be wrong in your opinion, but that is ok because we are entitled to our own opinions

[leopoldstotch]

Once again SM you manage to insult someone. FTR I come from a broken home and my W does not so there goes your theory.

[theUF]

I have to agree with the others here SM.
I come from a very broken home and my Ex is in the other end of the spectrum.

No offence, but using youself and your family vs W is not exactly a neutral example given your current situation.

I think the choices we make have more to do with us as individuals and the influences that affects us here and now.

[25yearsmlc]

yes but on one hand people are offended that he seemed to lump them together (and the link was written by other DBers and is funny and not that different than what I used for MLC comedy)

and the point of the offended, SEEMED to be that MLCs and WASs are different AND that oversimplifying insulted. Also That MLCers have unresolved childhood issues, was one comment.

So now when SM says "yeah I think those coming from broken homes are more likely to leave", and may have called them "WAS" AND OR "MLCs" I actually think there is some data that supports that IN Div Busting's first edition.

Somewhere the stats are there about the effects on our kids if we divorce, so I assume retrospective analysis might reveal the same. Meaning if our spouse comes from a broken home, he's more likely to see divorce as an answer. h's parents divorced. His mother never remarried, his father is on his 4th marriage and those are not good odds.

(So yes we can change. They're onto their 20th anniversary now. She showed him how and It's the happiest time of his life.)

I'm not sure this is an important distinction to make however. Not sure exactly what words were used to offend, but I think there's a "tone" that SM uses, that is off putting. Substantively he seems to be in agreement with much of what is said BUT SM, you word it in an oversimplified way. Which sounds patronizing, especially being a newcomer and doing it, at length, with us, repeatedly.

SM, when you make your "realization statements" that are really just sweeping generalizations, my tip to you is to NOT do that. It always offends or at least annoys the people it does not apply to.

Anyhow, can we get back to YOU and the 180s and the GAL...how are those projects and activities going?

I really want to hear about YOUR Actions and NOT your wife's OR her reactions.

I think maybe I'll just chime in when I see something new on YOUR end, you know? Not more of the same.

Can't beat my head against the wall so much and that's NOT just aimed at you but at me too. I have to go where I feel useful and I think you HAVE made progress.

For ME, the biggest thing you've done, or I think you've done, is not lecturing your wife to convince her about how great you are and how wrong her perception of the marriage was, and deleting OMs number.

Now You have the information you need to make this work. You have to implement it. As the 12 steppers say, "The program works when you work the program." Same for DB.

A lot of the info you need is in your threads, (written by other posters )

As for the tools for new behaviors (how to compliment, how NOT to father your wife, how not to pontificate, etc), you have been told many times how to get those tools and where they are. You've availed yourself of some, but not all. When the time comes, I hope you'll max out on the types of help you get and not the books you read.

Make sense?

good luck, ttys

Keep on keeping on...

[25yearsmlc]

ps

don't a lot of us have unresolved childhood issues UNTIL we resolve them? Is it that unique to an MLCer? As for getting help...

I know so few people over 40 (let alone married couples) who are happy and have NOT been to some sort of therapy or counselling.

Not sure I know any, come to think of it...

[AnotherStander]

And I feel like GALing! I realky do, for the first time. I want to have some fun!

I've said this to you before, but you really need to quit putting this off and just do it. Most of us had to drag ourselves out of the house kicking and screaming for a while to GAL. The LBS doesn't want to GAL, but once you start it you'll feel better and better about it and about yourself.

I mean you stessed that this line was VERY offensive to you although it was taken for an obviously satirical/comedy/fun post....bu it was still offensive to you. Are you always this high strung? How can that offend you VERY much...

No need to launch personal attacks on those trying to help you.

In fact, I so dont care, that she seems to really be responding to it. Confidence is key. I know you are akl reading this and saying duh we have been telling him that the whole time. I know I havent listened, but I also know you have all been there before. You appreciate the difficulty in letting go of something yiu cannot control.

I often see you post this "I finally get it" attitude, followed by more of the same behavior within days or even hours. Case in point:

Wife starts tearing up a little, and says 'oh that must be so hard'. No sh$t !

No need to see it on TV baby, just look at me and remembef that day you smashed my dream of a perfect family.

Same old blaming and bitterness. Would have been a great time to ask her what she's feeling and do some validation of her feelings. That would have been a significant 180.

I watchex casually then went outside to smoke and left my w sitting there watching all of the drama unfold. When I came back in it looked like she was deep in thought. Maybe that got through to her a little?

How many times do you need to be told to quit the mind-reading? Seriously, are you going to change or just keep doing the same old stuff over and over again expecting different results?

My wife has never read any of this, yet she executes it perfectly right out of the text book! Its weird how they all do that isnt it? Freaky.

Sure it's script, but that does not excuse you from addressing your faults and doing 180's on them.

I was also announcing everything I saw to my wife on purpose to see what she would say about if I could finish it.

When are you going to drop your expectations? Can you not build a swingset FOR YOUR D with ZERO expectations of what it means to your W?

so 25 I total see the benefit of GALing. I watched some youtube videos made by many other marriage counselors about WAS situations and ALL of them said that becoming mors interesting through your own activities was crucial to getting a WAS to look back.

GAL isn't a trick to lure the WAS back. It's for YOU. Work on YOU, become the strong, independent man you once were. Get to the point where you realize you will be fine whether with or without her. THAT is what it's all about, that is when she may be attracted back to you.

I am not easily offended and dedonitely not from a comment on this forum.

I think there's some denial here, it's clear that you are easily offended by comments on this forum.

My wife comes from a broken home, and I think there are unresolved issues. I will throw this out there, and please everyone, dont het offended. But I feel it kay be more common for the WAS to be from a divorcee family, and the LBS not.

Quit looking for reasons, explanations and justifications for your sitch.

SM, you've been here over 3 months and every time I see some little ray of hope that you might FINALLY be grasping DB'ing, you follow it up with piles of the "more of the same" behavior that I suspect landed you here in the first place. Remember what Michele says in DR, if you stick a different name on old behavior then it is not something new and different, it is still MORE OF THE SAME. If you want to save your M then you need to quit pinning your hopes on some sudden epiphany on your W's part that she's screwing up by leaving the already-perfect H and make REAL AND LASTING CHANGES to yourself. Good luck.