I'm a little confused after phone coaching session

[reb9597]

ADVICE NEEDED PLS

WAH spent time with D15 alone this afternoon. First time since last summer! She's seen him a rarely and only with D17. He picked her up after school and was waiting in front of the junior high... she is in high school this year. But she just got home and seemed to have a good time. No comments or questions from me, no pressure to D15. WAH just drops her off in driveway, looked like he was starting to get out of car but seeing I was home & opened the door he just waved and walked back to his car.

OKAY SO, I am ticked for D15 sake the her dad forgot where she went to school. But D15 and I talked and I was passing it off as a brain fart (which it probably was, me enabling his R again?). I think it's a really big step for in their relationship to have a 'normal' few hours together. Especially with his crying phone call and texting that he was so torn up about their relationship.

In light of praising the 1%, would it be good to send him a text saying 'd15 seemed to have a good time. glad you guys connected'. BUT that seems kind of stupid because, he's their father and they should having been connecting all this time. And I don't want to rub it in his face.

Any opinions?

PS I know I was totally wallowing in previous journal post. Back on the PMA train...

[reb9597]

Whoa! Just got text from WAH, he dropped of D15 20 min ago.

H: I don't want you to think that I've been ignoring you or your email. I have been thinking about it a lot. But with my phone fiasco and everything else have not been able to put pen to paper, so to speak.

So I WILL reply with positive praise about D15 tonight. But how do I answer his referring to my email? I kinda want to say "sure, no pressure" but in a not so casual way?

[reb9597]

Received email from H today. Have not replied. I had a BIG "do I want to be right? or do I want to save my marriage" realization so I'm cautious on how to proceed.

I sent my email feeling weak with guilt at accepting my part in the demise of our relationship. I asked if he would consider seeing a counselor to figure out how we can move forward with our family "in whatever form that takes". I'm scared now because I've read so many other threads about DON'T engage in MC if the WAS isn't into it. And I think my H is right to be cautious, as I am, but he hasn't made a lot of changes and I don't think he's really into it...

Email from H:

"I've been reading and re-reading your email. You do seem like you have changed and are trying to be a better person. The girls seem like they are in a better place as well. I don't know if its because they have matured some or the therapy is helping them or if its a mix of both. But the results are evident.

I can't really say that I've changed much myself. I stil worry about money and providing a comfortable home and material things for you and the girls. I wish I could do more or make more and work less so that I could have more time with the girls. But as I've always said, "time and money. You have one or the other but not both."

I'm open to finding a therapist and discussing things so that we can move on. Whether that is together or separate remains to be seen. I am very weary and not inclined to come back at this point. It's like the lion in the cage (for lack of a better example). If the trainer pokes him with a stick all the time, he won't like the trainier or will avoid him.

Again, I am happy that you're relationship with the girls is going well. I find it funny (ironic not haha funny) that this is the case. So many times I talked with the girls when you were on a 'rampage' about having patience and love for you . I stuck up for you countless times and showed solidarity because thats what was right. D17 even asked me once why I stay with you. I never told you that because I didn't want to hurt your feelings. I don't want to hurt your feelings now but enough time has passed and you seem to be in a better spot to hear it.

I am sorry for my part of the problem too. Instead of dealing with it at the beginning or even yelling or screaming, I buried my feelings and tried to cover it up. Instead, I self medicated and tried to push it off. That obviously didn't work. My apathy became a warm blanket. Drinking and avoiding you became the norm. But no matter what I tried, nothing helped. I know it may have felt that I left at a crucial time in the girls lives and it absolutely killed me to do it. But I couldn't at the time see any other way. I felt like I had become a shitty father and a non-existent husband. I was either going to drive drunk and kill myself or even worse one of the girls. I could not let that happen!!! So I left.

Anyways, no need to rehash old reasons or excuses.

Like I said before, I'm fine with therapy. I don't really know what I'm looking for tho and you seem to be a pro, so if you want to chose one or have one in mind that would be great. But as it stands, right now, my goal is to be able to find out how we can have a good relationship with our girls apart and a pleasant working relationship together. Maybe my thinking will change down the road, but for now that's all I can promise. Please don't take this wrong or be offended. I know that you have changed and are in a different place. Maybe more at peace with yourself. But I am still weary. Sorry. Please know that I still love you as a friend and am deeply concerned with your well being. I want you to be happy no matter if its with me, alone or in a new relationship.

I'm sure we can discuss all of this stuff with the therapist and figure out our next step."


So the positives, at least he's communicating and expressing some deep hurt. Not a lot of taking responsibility, especially avoiding the affair topic, but small steps are okay. Consistent change over long period is going to be key for me. I don't know if it'll ever knock down the tall wall around H, but I'm changing for me anyways. It huts that he would say that about D17. Our workloads regarding parenting/household/everything was not fair or anywhere near equal. But that does not excuse a 'rampage' on my part and I have learned better skills now. But it still stings...

I don't understand how H could leave home with the realization that he was a bad father and husband and not try to do anything about it in the last 9 months! Just running/reacting to the pain? Not for our M, but he could at least have worked on the being a bad father part. Instead he's isolated himself even further from the kids. That's hard for me to comprehend.

I have a referral for a neutral therapist that seems pro marriage I'd like to proceed with. When I called a couple weeks ago he was booked out 4 weeks. So I'll have time to continue to show positive changes. Maybe should expose him to the family a little more? D17 bday is in a couple weeks and I was thinking we'd probably celebrate together that night.

I feel like I'm at the very beginning of the marathon. And what I thought was me running the marathon for the past 9 months has only been training.

[labug]

Rebecca, I feel for you on this. My first response is anger but probably because it sounds so similar to my sitch. Basically he says, "I know I played a part but YOU were really the problem"

This "Anyways, no need to rehash old reasons or excuses" but he did it anyway, didn't he.

Even tho we can only work on our part, we do need to recognize that nothing happens in a vacuum. As someone else said, we can give 100% to working on our 50%.

You are right to move forward from this and work on your side of the street.

Be honest with yourself about what you hope to get out of the therapy. He's pretty clear on his goals.

In what your H says about you in regards to "rampage," I recognize myself. You can build an even better R with your Ds than you knew possible now that you have the tools. I know, I've done it. Work on that, put your energy into that. Your successes will give you confidence in all your other Rs.

Let your H sort out his stuff.

You figure out who Rebecca really is because I think you lost her long ago.

This will take a long time and sometimes forward progress is measured in millimeters.

You can do it. Look at all you've already done.

[reb9597]

Thank you labug. Weird thing is that the email he sent yesterday almost doesn't sound like him. Very defensive, lots of anger. But then I have to remember that he really didn't show me "him" for a lot of years. I just lived with the trained, controlled version. And if this is really what's underneath all the layers, it's not very attractive. But then I remember the 20+ years of thinking you know somebody and feel that maybe all of his anger is a defense. But at this point, I know I would need to be a lot stronger to get through that.

I still haven't replied, what should I say? Everything I started last night was super angry.
- the girls are better because of the work we've put into our R
- I didn't ask you home so don't assume I invited.
- I really like my life now without drama.
- he doesn't show any appreciation for me reaching out and basically flaying my heart in my email

can't go there... read on another thread about validation. So I need to figure out how to proceed with that.

H sent me a very pleasant email this morning about D17 bday plans. I feel like I'm all the way back at the beginning a few weeks ago when I asked how do you be friendly or friends with WAH? My thinking has changed a great deal because of my personal growth, it's best for the kids, can't have future R without friendship, etc. But I feel like this is coming full circle and if our R is really done in the future, I don't think I want to be his friend. I want to be friendly and amicable, but he has not been a friend in any of this. And I really opened pandoras box with this counseling suggestion because I don't even see how to try to have good communication with someone that won't take any responsibility for his actions!

If anyone has another way of looking at this I'd really appreciate the insight.

Positives: taking my girls to a concert today. I have not replied in anger to H. Waiting for a confident approach. I didn't share anger or anything about email with dds. I didn't react at all (which is huge for me).

[azguy]

He's communicating. He's expressing willingness to explore at least some of the problems you are having in the R. Maybe it will only lead to a more friendly co-parenting, but even that's not nothing.

He put some pretty pointed accusations in the email. I would feel hurt and angry too. Whether it's right or accurate is mostly irrelevant. Are you still interested in showing him you are someone he wants to stay with? If so, it's probably best to let the insults slide. They're coming from someone who needs to keep these things in his mind, so he can justify his leaving. I can see you know this already, by not replying, and venting here.

But I think the positive aspects of his email should be your focus. He is really quite brave for sharing his real emotions and thoughts with you. Think how easy it would have been for him to ignore that email, or just reply to tell you he doesn't want to work on it. You know how weary he must feel. You describe a similar weariness as you've tried DB on here. You understand his hesitation with what to expect during therapy, and you certainly aren't trying to apply pressure. So say some of this to him!

He seems worried that any effort to work on the R will just be too difficult. Trying to keep things light and low pressure at this point is probably a good antidote to this.

[reb9597]

Thank you azguy. I'd actually really like to know what flipped in your head to make you realize you wanted your M? I'll have to review your story again, but I remember you saying you were done first. And you're absolutely right, he thinks it's too late, he's told me "too much water under the bridge". Today I am choosing to focus on the vulnerability. And I'm ignoring the rest.

Just finished 5 Love Languages book. I mentioned I skimmed it earlier, my H started reading it & I really doubt he got too far into it either. I mean, how could anyone in a desperate marriage read this and not want to try the lessons?

But either way - the resounding message is that Love is a choice! It does put some perspective into 'wooing' your spouse back or not, ultimately they have to decide if they're going to love you or not. I know, I'm a late learner here and everyone already has that revalation. But I've read tons of threads here and I especially am questioning every text, every converstaion, all with a lot of uncertainty about what I can do to move the sitch one way or another. I can play my hand very well but it will ultimately come down to his decision. And I've felt a lack of decision, or a choice not to love for a looonnngg time.

Maybe I'm finally feeling ready to move on. I'm sticking it out for now, but know I'll be okay either way.

After the email listed above from H which sounded out of character for him, a lot more angry that he usually acts, he sent another email yesterday about wanting to join us for D17 bday day trip to another city I'd planned. Kind of weird, it's about 2 hours away and he wants to take the train down there then have D17 ride back on train with him. I just said sure, that'd be great. Whatever, he must think I'll bite him in a 2 hr car ride. Or he's probably just wanting to avoid the awkwardness. Oh well. Not letting effect me anymore.

H also emailed this am that he was thinking of cutting back from his off-shift job, he said 'too much drama'. Which is also really weird because he just sent the email about how he feels he has to work so much... I just replied & tried to be supportive, told him probably good idea to keep a low profile. Everything I want to say on the subject sounds guilt or pressure inducing.

25? I'd love you to pick apart H's email and let me know if there's anything left to be learned there. 2x4s welcome.

[LBH_LC]

Is there an edition of 5LL you'd recommend?

[reb9597]

Another thing I realized from the 5 LL book, pretty sure my H's LL is 1) physical touch 2) acts of service.

Really going to be hard to show either if we're not living together! At this point I think it's just about putting my best foot forward.

Anyone have any ideas? I think the acts of service is hopefully getting through with the way I'm taking care of girls and house. I mentioned to him that D17 may want hot tub turned on for party & he replied that he's afraid to look at the swamp in there. Really? He thought I'd have just left it? Told him I had it drained & winterized last fall so no worries, just don't know how to fill up & turn on. He replied thank you!! So that's an act of service too I guess.

[reb9597]

Leftcoast, I have the one from Northfield publishing, c 2010 - same exact purplish cover as what's on Amazon. I also read the Desperate Marriages book by Gary Chapman and thought that was really good, but more applicable to 2 people still living together. Both are worth reading.