So close I can taste it...

[25yearsmlc]

25 I just have one comment that I really would like to clarify before I start to lose your support again. I need your insight if I can be successful in fixing my own issues.

You say you may have an issue with my credibility.

I said this b/c I feel as if you only hear what you want to hear. And you misquote me, and possibly others. I also find a lot of your comments inconsistent. Sometimes a person can have a breakthrough and see things in a new different way, but you actually change or add facts. At least that's my opinion.


I just wanted to plead to you to pls give me a little room and cut me a little slack. You know how confusing it is to concile what your WAWs re written version of your mariage with what you yourself remember.


Yes I do know it's confusing. Lots of wheel spinning, not enough growth or change in ME.

Eventually I stopped trying to reconcile the differing versions of our past, and began working on myself and creating a better future, going "from this day forward." Those words were in our marriage vows & now I see them as preciously insightful words.

FWIW I think by how much time I've spent on your thread, it's clear I have cut you some slack. To me, you are now complaining that I'm not agreeing with you enough or cutting you enough slack or giving you WOA but that's not really my job.

I want to help newbies not kill themselves, first. (Literally). I want them to realize that life DOES get better and that no matter what their WASs are doing (or MLCers or whatever it is) they will again be happy. THat's the first thing I focus on for a newbie. Then I try to help them DETACH.

We've gone over that with you. But b/c your DB coach has suggested some pursuit on your end, I think you're confused by it. You think it conflicts.

I don't see an inconsistency really b/c I think you can do what Laurie suggests and also NOT base your entire view of how your day/week or life is going, all based on every mood/word or expression your wife gives off.

You can do what Laurie suggests BUT still, You must detach from the results you are seeking. Just do/be your best and do your approach, whatever it is, and leave the results up to God.

When a newbie seems out of the woods w/their personal safety and when they seem to be functioning enough in their lives, I ask them to really look at the only thing they can control, THEMSELVES. That's why I spend very little time on MLC versus WAW. And I see you as confused and spinning but not in danger of losing your job or life. Am I missing anything there?

As for the MLC vs WAW, I say it's not relevant because

YOUR course of action remains the same no matter which she is. So for ME, it's a huge waste of your energy trying to assess things and taking the temperature of the R and progress, if any, so often.

The primary thing I worry about with all the focus on MLCs, is that it can deflect from the LBSers personal work. And that's my issue with you.

I see you spinning wheels & spending so much time and energy on your w's MLC, her use of SSRIs, whether she thought you had a SSM, your analysis of the lure of an Affair and the addictive aspects, your personal take on [*], AAND lots and lots of arguing with others if their take on it differs from yours. You seem to need consensus on issues that don't garner a lot of identical views...we all take what we can from something and leave the rest behind. That's when you start rephrasing your newest theory and it rarely relates to YOU---always about HER. That's such a waste of time and it tends to annoy people, I think.

Then you get flabbergasted and feel "attacked" which isn't a word I'd use for people posting to you at length, for free, trying to make a point with you to help you. BUT It does make me wonder about how you receive feedback from your w when it's not positive.

Could she have been trying to reach you before, re the lack of attention for her, or the sexual issues for instance? Then you felt "attacked" and spent your time defending yourself when all that was really happening was your wife was telling you she had unmet needs.

AND All this focus on her...instead of making a new SM...though you now want to explore what being too fatherly looks like, (which itself is a little odd but maybe it's a cultural thing...yours is patriarchal so maybe it's just what you saw and thought was loving... I don't know.

But the idea that a book will show you and then if you just read it, you can fix it and do more 'x' and less of 'y' and then it'll work out...I mean I totally sense the desparate need for answers in a confusing painful situation.

But as i"ve said...it's not as simple as that. Read Div Remedy again, first. And maybe the Five Love Languages and if you have read them already I honestly think reading thema gain would help you MORE than reading another 4th or 9th book...just mho.


Add to this the effect of the vets on the forum challenging what you believe where the issues and you have a huge mess on your hands! Did we make love once a week? Was I twice? Did I see it was twice when she thinks it was once? Who is right? Did my recollection change because I have bought into my wifes version of the story? I dont know.

What matters is whether you are seeing things too self servingly and therefore NOT helping clarify matters much. You go into great painstaking detail about things but when inconsistencies are pointed out, you throw up your hands and play this ^^ routine as if you're being attacked. I'm not buying it or going there. I just pointed out that sometimes there are too many of these for me to make assessments.


But what I do know, and I hope you agree, any inconsistencies are not on purpose, and ultimately they are minor details that dont affect our plan of how to kove forward. The bottom line is what we all know about my sitch. However number of timez it was, it was not enough and likely not passionate enough fo wife. I think the exact little details are not important unless we are trying to add lieing to my list of negative traits ; )

25. Apprecaite your help! Totally agree on the MIL cmparing to her experience etc.. those are awesome points.

Be back later today to read your responses and plan of how to purge this fatherly behavior I have.

well, my "plan" is having you do things I don't think you will do or want to.
It's not reading another book.
But that's all I have for you at the moment.

[25yearsmlc]

whatever behaviors you want to "purge" yourself of, is fine.

But if you do not have a positive affirming REPLACEMENT behavior, you'll revert to what you know, pretty fast.

That's why I've suggested many times, that you get IC and or attend a decent workshop.

(BTW** I retract earlier suggestions about LIfespring b/c I lack personal experience with them.

I've attended Landmark, EST, and Essential Experience, and numerous one day workshops here in Los Angeles. I do not recommend Landmark or EST for most people, as Landmark focuses heavily on recruitment and EST is very confrontational. In the LA area there are mostly communication based workshops that help actors and "regular people" and of course, trial lawyers.)

I stand by what I've said about Essential Experience, as do the other DBers who've gone. You can read their summations. I don't know what, if any, cultural impediments you might have with something like a personal growth workshop. It's a safe environment for growth and inward digging, but if you spend your time judging others there, you won't get a lot out of it. NOT saying you would, just mentioning it, if it applies.

I just think there are many things for you to UNlearn, and in times of crisis or stress, we revert to what we know even when it's knowing what NOT to do.

A friend of mine is tired of being angry all the time and knows he has a temper problem. At EE, he mentioned that his dad used to beat his mom regularly...the friend does NOT beat his wife or children but he IS angry a lot...but the beatings are what he saw growing up, for years.

He KNOWS he doesn't want to be his dad, but I think he has not replaced the "Do not do that" behaviors of his dad, with anything else.

So all he was doing was struggling NOT TO DO the bad thing...

but he had no other behavioral models. And he needs those. So he's learning and meeting good men who resolve conflicts in healthy ways, even the tough ones, with communication and compromise and commitment...

Do you see what I'm saying?

[SM34]

25 I have read your posts many times now. Not ignoring you, or MrBond, just thinking. Taking the time to really think about how to change this. Been doing a lot of analyzing about how I may have assumed fatherly role in the M. I think it has to do with my parents are their relatiinship, which I want to tell you about here, but I want to let all my thoughts sink in first.

On a positive note, I deleted OMs number from phone so I now cannot see when he is 'online' and then check if wife is online, and then try to mind read how positive their relationship is right now. It has been three days and I feel great! Liberating. I dont when they chat or for how long.....wife already said it isnt about him anyway.

Interactions with wife have been very positive. Without the distraction of trying to figure out who she is texting, I have been able to maintain PMA and have a heap more confidence, and I think it shows to wife.

She hasnt gone to see OM since last week, and it is saturday and she has not mentioned that she is going. We are supposed to work on our backyard together on Sunday to try to make it a more fun space for D3.

Wife doesnt think I am capable of building a swing for D3. Actually to be more accurate, she doesnt think I am capable of FINISHING the project. If you remeber, that was a complaint of hers that I started a 180 on immediately the day after BD.

So, either I have not been consustent enough on it, or it has not been enough time. But wife still doesnt believe I can start and finish a project without getting side tracked.

I may havd to prove her wrong on the swing build. Or I guess I may have to prove to myself that I can start and finish a project without distractions. If she choses to notice then thats great.

[cbtdad]

"I may havd to prove her wrong on the swing build. Or I guess I may have to prove to myself that I can start and finish a project without distractions. If she choses to notice then thats great."

Well said SM

[movingon-1968]

^^^ Agreed.

SM, your statement above is the best example of DBing you've said yet. There's still a very long, frustrating road ahead. You've taken a few very important steps with your last post- and I do applaud deleting the OM's number, it's important, especially for your own sanity...

[Crimson]

Sounds like you may have rounded a small corner. Good work.

Crimson

[SM34]

Thank you guys! I needed to hear some positives. I cannot believe how calm and confident I feel now that im nit checking who she is texting.

In fact, I so dont care, that she seems to really be responding to it. Today we had a great day together, and romorrow is set aside for planning and starting our backyard make over for D3. No mention so far of a visit to OM. It will be one week tomorrow, the longest stretch since the start.

Confidence is key. I know you are akl reading this and saying duh we have been telling him that the whole time. I know I havent listened, but I also know you have all been there before. You appreciate the difficulty in letting go of something yiu cannot control.

I do t want to even try to control it. I feel like she sees somehow that I dont care what she is doing right now. I just go about my business as if butthead doesnt exist. Because realy its almost like he doesnt exist. Its about me and W.

Its amazing hiw much it can be projected that you dont care anymore. She keeps telling me who she is texting almost like she feels she has to or something. And I just say, oh yeah? How is so and so doing? Tell them I said hi. And then go back to whatever I was doing.

Feels good guys! Really feel like I have indeed turned a corner. And I feel like GALing! I realky do, for the first time. I want to have some fun!

I really want to join a small business owner group so I can mingle with people that I aspjre to be like. Preferably people more successful than me lol

Thats all for now folks. Enjoying the feeling of liberation. No more anxiety no more stress or sleepless nights for 4 days now.

[SM34]

I just realized I keep repeating myself....im just so excited to have myself back. Now if wife would join me in my place of peace, we can move on with our lives!

[Tallula]

Wow, I just caught up! Wtg on deleting ON's #!! One of the things I did was to give up FB for lent & it has been so great I might just keep it up. I still have the messenger app, and will have to go on tonight to block someone from messaging me, but POM is awesome.

Nice job on the goal of finishing the job! That's what I've done about organizing my house & keeping it that way. I feel really good about it. If H does, great, but not the goal.

[SM34]

Ok so we were wayching Joan and Melissa Rivers show, it was an old episode where Melissa finds out her husband Jason was cheating on her. Melissa calls Jason crying and in very bad shape, and tells him he smashed her dreams of the perfect family.

Wife starts tearing up a little, and says 'oh that must be so hard'. No sh$t !

No need to see it on TV baby, just look at me and remembef that day you smashed my dream of a perfect family.

I watchex casually then went outside to smoke and left my w sitting there watching all of the drama unfold. When I came back in it looked like she was deep in thought. Maybe that got through to her a little?

I just read a link that Cadet posted to a newcomer about mlc and the different chapters of a satire book on how to perform the perfect mlc. It was so funny! MLC or WAS, its all the same. Tbey say the same things, and make you believe you are horrible, and they string you around for thd ride. Just enough kindness sk you do t give up, but not so much that you might actually think you are getting somewhere.

My wife has never read any of this, yet she executes it perfectly right out of the text book! Its weird how they all do that isnt it? Freaky.