Useful visit with C today, where we discussed alternatives for the US trip. The following idea seemed good: I will go to parks. The others seem to want to also. Why don't we therefore book tickets so that we all can go, but not decide exactly how to do so now? That is, instead of taking the current state of our R and extrapolating it into June, we can take things as they come.
She also mentioned the importance of having the who sleeps where discussion for my self esteem.
Will see C once more before I go to States for a month, during which I hope to go to EE.
Luke
M58, xW54 S22, D18 M 1984, D 2016 Living a new life.
We also talked about the conflict, as I see it, between giving a WAW space and my needing to discuss who sleeps where for my self esteem, which seems to encroach on W's space. C thought my self esteem was more important than W's 'space'. W may also see me taking this up as being tough on myself, which is something she wants, and fighting back.
Just because she may decide to want to not sleep with me now doesn't mean this can't change.
What do I do though, if when I bring up how lonely and separated I feel sleeping downstairs, she says "I don't care"? W often reacts emotionally and has trouble continuing rational discussion. Funny - we are opposites that way - she mostly emotional and then maybe rational, me rational and then maybe emotional.
Luke
M58, xW54 S22, D18 M 1984, D 2016 Living a new life.
I think Mr. Bond's point re anger and passion is important, as it is a real 180 for me.
Do you recall in my early posts to you saying that your W was STARVED for passion from you? I told you this after she said she wanted you to fight with her.
But let me quickly add, passion and anger is not the same thing. It doesn't mean the two go hand in hand. Passion is a wonderful characteristic of feeling alive. Imagine any artist trying to create without passion!
I agree with Advina, I don't like seeing anger displayed in any type of violence, and throwing or hitting things b/c one is mad, seems very childish. So, I just want you to understand that I'm not talking about screaming, pounding your fists against the wall, or any like manner.
I don't know if I ever said this....or thought about saying it, but when I read your posts, in my mind I see you acting like a very refined Englishman. So refined that his W is bored out of her mind!!!!!! (No offense intended toward the refined, British. I should have said, based on what has been portrayed on the screen.)
I don't mean to be crude by what I'm going to say here, but if your conversation, demeanor, connection, manner of behaving (so to speak), touch, etc., with your W while you were within the bedroom was much of the same as you seem outside the bedroom, then that could be part of the reason your W has lost interest in keeping you in there.
Of course, I'm not implying that you turn into some vulgar, angry, brute. But if she is ever going to see an attractive, manly, vivacious, sexy, male who wants to make passionate love......it should be in the master bedroom. Maybe you can relate to passion in sex. Without passion, sex is just going through the motions.
Life should be filled with happy, bursts of surprises. That is one way to keep the MR fresh & interesting. (Gosh, that sounds like something right out of a cheesy marriage manual. But I don’t take it back.) I think it’s wonderful that you can afford so many expensive trips you’ve offered your W over the years. But what if you didn’t have the finances to give a trip for a birthday present? Could your imagination be used in creating one of her best times in her life? Could you do that without inviting other people to it? Could you do it without cooking for her? Could you do it without spending any money whatsoever? Because these are what you’ve used before………trips, money, guests, and cooking. Think about it. What could you do that would be out of the ordinary for Luke?
She wants to see something stir you up, Luke. She’s treated you badly, trying to see if she can stir you. She’s bored with you, so what can you do about that? (And please, don’t suggest another trip for her. ) What can you do to show her that ole Luke is not a bump on a log that she can ignore so easily? We’ve been suggesting ways to respond when she’s out of line. But I want you to go even farther (imaginatively, anyway) and think on how you can recharge your daily encounter with her. First, you have to energize your personality. Not necessarily just in responses to her bad remarks, and not even trying to think of new conversational topics. Do something crazy, fun, untypical, illogical, unplanned, and unscheduled. Instead of having the mindset of completely changing the way you’ve always been……think of it as adding to who you are.
I often sound as if I don’t like anything about you, but that’s not the case. As much as we can know anyone here on the board, you have many qualities I admire. I feel your self-esteem has taken a terrible beating in your past, and as a result, you are not all you could be as a man. You steadily withdrew from personal R’s and settled….and adapted to loneliness until you’ve tried to convince yourself you are comfortable. One thing I’ve seen from those who’ve been with you while posting is that even if the M does not make it, we all want you to be happier. Not a life filled with excuses for others, and with no friends or loved ones around you.
I’ve read your posts on other members’ threads, and you are a very caring man. Your compassion and encouragement shows in those posts to newcomers. They would never suspect how alone you really are. I think you could use that compassion, talent, and education to help a lot of people. Perhaps you already have and you just have not revealed that information to us.
I believe you have a lot to offer and that your W is lucky to have you. Once you believe it yourself, then you’re more likely to convince her. In the meantime, I'll probably be around here to tell you the ugly truth about some of us females. So with that, let me leave you with a few more tidbits. Strong women or passive women, it makes no difference, it's her man that brings out the best in her.....and the worst. If she has to deal with a man who is passive, immature, weak, or who fails to lead his children..... (or any other unrespected qualities she needs in a husband), then she will step in as the authority over him and everything in their marriage. She has the final say over everything that concerns them. As this happens, she loses more & more respect and attraction for him b/c he won't do anything about it. The respect is gone. The lack of respect kills the attraction. They may abide under the same roof, but the M is dead.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
and thank you for your long post and faith in me. I really appreciate your and everyone's spending the time to write. Only here is where I can really talk and really share.
Your post was difficult for me - if I can't spend money, invite others, cook or travel, what remains? Just me, I guess, and I sometimes feel contentless, like you have to do something external to me for amusement, not me -
Sure, I can talk to others, and have been told that I am a good listener, but after a while there is nothing left, and I am not sure how to refill the vessel.
I used to write love poems, a long time ago, and so wrote some doggerel today, for amusement, and to do something different, just for me. D contributed a bit too, which was fun.
Then, it being a nice day, I went and sat in the sun, also a bit different than my usual, but not wild or illogical or anything big.
Went and looked up going to the nearest fun house (2 hours away), but it is for families and kid groups. It'd be odd going alone probably, and D is not interested.
"Crazy, fun, untypical, illogical..."
That is really tough -
Read up on how to play Monopoly Deal, a card game I gave my son, and asked if W or D was interested, getting only mild interest from D and a no from my W (I hardly ever play games). D then came up later and we played 3 games.
Listened to Titanium (thanks Mr. Bond!) a bit, but mostly read and liked the lyrics; also found another version, by a band called Ocean Blvd, that weirdly fits my sitch.
My work uses my education and I like it. I work with safety systems, doing (very rational) engineering, so can help people that way.
It was fun hanging with the dance teacher.
Maybe I should do something with him?
Radically different would be something with people, something beyond my risk averse limits, staying out late.
We don't have a car, yet, so are a bit limited in mobility just now. Luckily Sweden is good with public transportation, and we live in town and so don't have to have a car.
I would like to play something like the song 'Dead End' you find on Youtube by the band Tantrum - scream like that into a microphone, play the minor chords, get out the blockage. I have an electric version of my musical instrument in the States, along with an amp and distortion pedal - would be great to bring it over here and play with someone else (wife would be suspicious of this). Also not the usual over 50 backward-looking, sentimental stuff.
"Not a life filled with excuses for others, and with no friends or loved ones around you. "
wow - you sure hit the soft underside -
Maybe EE can help here. I am told there is an EE person in the UK who might be willing to talk about it, so hope to do that next week. Not sure how to sell EE to those around me (MIL, W, kids).
I am accustomed to thinking of life big-picture wise as a series of losses - your kids move out, your health goes, your girlfriends or W leave you, you die, the end. Maybe that is not a good way to look at it.
I'd love to bike tour again, with someone again, visit many countries. That is sort of an ideal to me - sport, culture, travel, food, activity.
Read about a single old guy in Cooks Illustrated to whom it was most important to be needed and be of service to others, which I understand, though that philosophy is fundamentally empty seeming to me.
Really have to think more about your "crazy, fun, untypical..." challenge.
(Mr. Bond - saw Kate and Leopold as mentioned in Cunningham.)
Luke
M58, xW54 S22, D18 M 1984, D 2016 Living a new life.
Strong women or passive women, it makes no difference, it's her man that brings out the best in her.....and the worst. If she has to deal with a man who is passive, immature, weak, or who fails to lead his children..... (or any other unrespected qualities she needs in a husband), then she will step in as the authority over him and everything in their marriage. She has the final say over everything that concerns them. As this happens, she loses more & more respect and attraction for him b/c he won't do anything about it. The respect is gone. The lack of respect kills the attraction. They may abide under the same roof, but the M is dead.
Luke, I believe I dont need to tell you this, but this is truth. I read this post from Sandi, and got shivers in my spine. My eyes opened wide and I thought... I thought... WOW! This lady ( Sandi), WOW!!! This is.... This is... Well, she knows what she's talking about!! You cant put a price on words like that!
Sandi2. Thanks for writing that. It moved me... Really it did.
M:39, W:35 T:12, M:3 (4y 2013.02.18) D:9 S:5 2 Dogs W says she wants D : 2013.01.18
