So close I can taste it...

[25yearsmlc]

25 and Gabbysmom I agree with what you said witb a few exceptions that are small details like the number of times we made love ML. I believe I have said all along that jt was ATLEAST once a week but usually twice.

to me, you are quibbling w/little facts again, but since you are, look at your posts again. I took notes on what you said so I could keep things straight.

You said it was averaging once a week. You spent A LOT of time discussing love making statistics and how it was this & that, but my point to you then, and now, is that there WAS a decline in frequency (and perhaps type of) sex and you can argue all you want about whether it should/or is normal or whatever.

NONE of which matters if your w wanted or needed it more THEN...she did have unmet needs. You can spen weeks here on SSRIs and your endless research but if you can't admit there were problems in the m, you're spinning your wheels NOT doing the real work needed.

I KNOW you say you are working on you. But it'd be going so much faster if that was your main activity instead of one among many.

At times you blamed her for the decline in sex. You never said "it's her fault" --- but you explained again, that you did not feel confident enough b/c of work stress, (other times you seem to ooze your self confidence so yes, there is a disconnect for me. Confusing. As if there's cognitive dissonance, which I believe there is.)

Much of what you say varies. Or you'll add details that DO matter...but we'd have had those details if you had just one thread, and that's assuming your memory is accurate

You said she didn't encourage you back when business was bad, w/enough words of affirmation, just when you needed it the most.

You said, therefore, she was not making you feel confident enough to initiate or want sex when you business was going poorly or you were stressed.

YOU admit you don't compliment HER enough (so I guess it goes both ways but my gut says it was scorekeeping, such as You didn't compliment her if she didn't compliment YOU enough, etc)

and in effect you punished her for not giving you the WOA you say you needed. AND OR you simply were not interested in sex enough FOR HER... NOW you say it's that OR instead, that you were not adventurous enough.

This claim is based all or in part on you reading or learning of her messages to others (huge no no) in which you say she praised your lovemaking and how different it is from OMs...but then she also likes some of what OM does.

You tell us of your research, but not what matters.

What matters is that 1) your sex drive and ability to positively compliment her, were affected by HER behavior AND your business events, and your sex drive OR type of sex DECLINED from before and

2) you also did not give her WOA which helped to make her feel more rejected and finally,

3) all this bothered her, a lot. When she told you, you explained why you were neglecting her. In effect you argued with HER perceptions instead of just changing the behaviors she was complaining of.

You spent your energy then and STILL DO, explaining why her perceptions were off or wrong INSTEAD of just changing them.

4) sometimes you seem to get this^^^ and I have lots of hope. You'll see that she needed things you COULD/SHOULD have given her...


Then other times you revert to the "explanations" format you use. Then you miss my main point about it all , which is that the explaining your faulty reasoning does not improve the reasoning....it just reinforces whatever you're justifying in that moment.

You need not defend your reasoning at the time, just change the behaviors and stop the explaining. That goes to your need to be right and have agreement by others.


In any case those details are not so important right now. What I meant by I dont think even that was the problem, is that I think wife said it frequency was an issue, but mostly the hints she through was that it. Wasnt passionate enough. Perbaps it was both or a combo of sorts.


this^^^ is 'not so important right now" but then you go into it again. Yes SM, it's a combination of the things SHE SAID bothered her.




I didnt mean I need to read up on father figure to see if it fits me. You have all made that quite clear that the way I treat her is fatherly.

My research was going to be how to change that, how to change myself to that person that I should be. See, this is the first time I have really thought about this aspect of me.

maybe an instruction manual for "not fathering your w" is out there. But my guess is that more research is not what you need. More DOING DIFFERENT behaviors is.

I think you'll need to see other healthy couples interact, learn from them, go to a workshop or get intensive therapy for this. I think you need to learn new behaviors and UNlearn others.

Much as I love to read, there are times to put the books down.



I toom it as babying her, I mean that in a nice way like pampering, but I see now it is detrimental to a M.

NOW, Do you see that it's controlling and manipulative and a turn off?

An interesting point is that a while back I asked if doing too much for your wife to really make her life easier was a turn off for women. It was a discussion on [*] website and also fits the sex rank theory of red pill etc.. so I was attacked for trying to look at too many conflicting approaches.

when you say you were "attacked" it really irks me. We're trying to help you. Not "attack you" and that victimhood thing has to stop. You were not attacked. People just disagreed with your take on it, including me.

Also, you MISQUOTED the book and it's entire meaning.

The book points out how built up resentments can lead to some men lashing out at their spouses, accumulating but not expressing their resentments and being conflict avoidant, (often just cowardly) and manipulative or passive aggressive...and how critical those men can be ALL while pretending to be people pleasers and how unhealthy that behavior can be.

You assumed the title of the book meant that YOU were just being too nice and too pleasing to her and maybe that's all that's going on here with all these marital problems....(never mind all the talk about her feelings of being rejected or fathered by you or how you can't compliment her)...

and you wanted to summarize/teach us, "the secret". At least that's how I read it. And yes, I made a snarky remark b/c I could not believe you would over simplify not just YOUR marital problems

but a whole load of other's marital problems based on a book you had NOT read, or you really misunderstood.

FINALLY, no one said you were mixing approaches THEN...but you do try to use a "menu option" and since you have a DB coach, just stick with one thing and stop shopping.

IMO you keep looking for simple answers to complicated issues and by doing all that - you spend a ton of energy NOT ON YOU, which to me, is a waste of time and work and energy.

If I were you, I'd spend 100% of my time on my own work.


But now I see that I was on the right lines as to what the problem is, but you all have mad it clearer. So those theories from those two sites I mentioned are pretty much the same concept as being fatherly right?


No.

They are just not presented in a way that is from a place of love like we all prefer here. They are kind of chovanistic and sexist. In any case, how can I begin to change that behavior?

See above comments...

What kind of other behaviors might I be doing that are fatherly? Like by not pushing my wife to get a job, even though we could use the money, am I being loving? Or fatherly?

There are other options as to why you have not pushed her. Other than being "loving or fatherly" , like controlling.

Anyhow, does your w WANT to go to work or not? Full time or part time? And from your description, your d is not going to just adapt to a new childcare arrangement easily. You said she's been kicked out twice?


Another reason I wanted to read up on this concept. Because I have no idea what other behaviors other than the ones you all pointed out to me, may also fit under this umbrella.

well how would WE know? We don't live with you.

I will stop confiding in MIL. She is a sweet person who really wants us to stay together.

Then you are lucky to have her in your life.

She has had a tough life and perhaps she just wants the path of least resistance for her daughter, but she does also believe my wife and I could use some relationship tools

DO YOU believe that^^? B/C that's what matters. Not your mil's perceptions.

and make each other happier than either one of couod imagine. But you are all righ. Enough is enough. I dont want wife to ever find out and feek we ganged up on her. Im still holding out for a loving, uncoerced decision to return to our marriage.

So help me! How do I purge this fatherly thing? How can I do that? An suggestions or things to practice?

I have made several suggestions to you about therapy, and the Essential Experience workshop and personal growth for YOU.

I Also said GAL b/c that would greatly reduce the obsessing and the "research" you keep doing.

You have either ignored the suggestions, or "explained" why you cannot do them...

I need to understand all the ways that I am doing that, so I can recognize when I ak doing it. It may seem obvious to all of you, but to me its not so obvious.

Thanks for the help everyone!

we only identify behaviors you describe. We dont' live with you. So we can only go by the bits and pieces you post here. That limits us of course.

But our culture offers resources and tools for you to get. They are NOT all in books. That's why I've stressed "experiential workshops" the most. They are not lectures or articles. They reveal the real you and show you how you can change. A great therapist can do some of this too...with a lot of time...and I don't know how much time or money you have for it.