Wife privileges reinstated, back in my own bed!

[scaredsilly]

The hardest thing to do sometimes, is to express your feelings without being defensive or placing blame. But, done repeatedly, without expectations, sometimes breaks through the patterns we get stuck in.

[Breakdown]

The hardest thing to do sometimes, is to express your feelings without being defensive or placing blame. But, done repeatedly, without expectations, sometimes breaks through the patterns we get stuck in.

I think that is excellent advice.


RLA, you seem to have a lot of anger. Where's this coming from? Have you dug into it?

I have noticed something in my sitch that I wanted to have you think about. I was really controlling, but now that I'm not, I see it in my wife...a lot. It's to the point that I don't feel comfortable doing things around the house because I won't do it "her way." And she really doesn't have a lot of acceptance for me doing it "my way." Do you think you two might have some of that going on?

[mamabird]

I do feel like I'm pretty good at expressing my feelings, but it's possible that I do it in a defensive way. I know that certainly they are received in a defensive way, which makes me less likely to want to express them. At the end of the day it's just not worth it sometimes.

Controlling behavior - the feedback I get is that I am controlling. I certainly have preconceived notions about how things are to go. I actually feel like I give my husband a lot of leeway but I am sure he doesn't see it like that. I probably would qualify as controlling under most people's definition.

So yes, I am angry, mostly because I feel unsupported in so many ways and also because my H refuses to give me the benefit of the doubt. Also he doesn't take care of himself. He's a good father and earns a nice living but he is so disengaged with most of the other stuff. These are the same feelings I've had for a number of years and I dealt with them poorly in the past. It doesn't make me less angry though. I don't see that H is really willing to do the work he needs to do. I have no evidence of that.

[scaredsilly]

"Half an hour later, I brought it up, told him he snapped, he looked me straight in the face, blankly, denied it, then walked out of the room. Morning goes on. Needed H's help with the boys. I started to get tense as the morning went on and started yelling. H didn't help as needed (failed to get S6's soccer gear etc despite my asking). I end up having to do it. Last thing before I leave I ask for an apology. He says, "F you, you're a screaming maniac" and turns his back."

do you think your screaming at the boys was misplaced anger that was fueled by what you thought your H should be doing? do you think your H was aware of this? do you think screaming, no matter whom it's directed at, makes others around it uneasy, tense, and nervous? do you think it may have made HIM angry?

"Health - well, true, it's his problem, not mine, BUT, and this is different from you SS, I have 2 little kids who need a father. He owes it to THEM to stay healthy. Like I said, he self medicates and I think he also punishes himself a bit when he overeats or makes bad choices. It's like a way to disrespect himself because deep down he doesn't believe he's worth more than that."

see that big "BUT" after "it's his problem, not mine"? i think you are using your kids as an excuse to control and justify your anger and resentment because he won't let you. you don't like what he does to himself and you would do it differently. his body is the only thing in the entire world that does not belong to someone else and no one else can take it, legally. and yet, you think it belongs to you and he should do what YOU want. don't use your kids to justify your resentment.

"Last thing before I leave I ask for an apology."

that's like a parting shot. is this the best way to get someone to apologize? it's almost like a demand for penance and an admission of guilt. like i said, communicating your feelings (sadness, hurt, loss, fear, anxiety), without blame, those are the ways to gain empathy (validation).

do you know that when i read your posts, all i see are a litany of complaints about your H? how he doesn't cook what you want, doesn't shop where you want him to buy groceries, doesn't take care of his OWN body the way you want him to, snores too loudly, etc., etc.? and i also see a woman who feels the victim and is blaming her H for it and not doing the work to make herself a better person, a kinder person, a person who is vulnerable and giving, a grateful person.

i was like you.

i've tried to hint around at what might help but you come right back with your story about how all your problems are because of him.

you H certainly has issues. but he's not on here. you are. and i also see you, again, looking to other men for validation. i'm not sure you should be over here, yet...

[labug]

Great post ss, especially this: communicating your feelings (sadness, hurt, loss, fear, anxiety), without blame, those are the ways to gain empathy (validation).

[Breakdown]

SS's post is gold...I'd read that a few times and let it really sink it.

[mamabird]

SS,
I started to reply to you in my usual way, line by line, with a defense for everything you said here. I realize you are trying to help and point out some flaws in the things that I say and portray here, how that way of thinking hasn't been helpful to me and how I come across as just defensive and hard headed and not thoughtful.

I think a lot of what you say has merit and is correct. I disagree with some of it too, specifically the health issues. I do rely on my H and need him to take better care of himself so that he will be alive for us. And yes, I'm resentful that he doesn't, I'm resentful that he doesn't see taking good care of himself as his responsibility to us.

When you say I'm not trying or doing the work though, that hurts. I am definitely trying. I may not be succeeding and I may not be displaying all of that here but I am trying. I have to struggle every day with my own feelings and resentments and behavior and try to overcome my natural impulses. Do I enjoy attention from other men? Of course. Am I seeking it though? I guess that depends. If I dress up and put on make up to go to work, is that for me to feel good about myself or is that for me to make a good impression on other people? Or both? I don't know. But I do know that I am not in a space where I am actively looking for validation in the way that I was previously.

I use this forum for venting most of the time. I've done a lot of complaining over the last however many months. Honestly it makes me feel better to come here and get it out vs. taking it out on someone or walking around with palpable resentment. It is like therapy for me to get those feelings out. I guess the trick now is to learn how to not have those feelings, or at least learn how to manage them better, which is much much harder. I'm not actually sure it's possible.

So do I even belong in this forum? I have no idea. I guess I thought that's what we were doing, piecing, putting the marriage back together. I'm certainly in a better place than I was and clearly we have a very long way to go. I don't know. It's my intention to try to fix the marriage; H's stated intention as well, so even though we are not having tons of success at the moment doesn't mean we aren't trying to do it. We still need a lot of help, it's still a very delicate situation.

So I do appreciate your advice, along with everyone else's over the past few months. It is just very hard to put these things into practice and I am struggling a lot. Perhaps I need to go back to the LRT theory where you make the changes for yourself, regardless of what spouse is doing. My expectation in marriage is for support, for respect, for mutual effort, and since I'm not getting much of that, I think that is what is derailing me at the moment. Vulnerability is also not well-received by my H. He shuts me down pretty consistently so I have learned to not be vulnerable with him. It is an unfortunate cycle because he claims to want that from me.

[scaredsilly]

I'm pleasantly surprised by your response. I expected you to really rip me a new one! Instead I feel your vulnerability and pain and I feel such empathy towards you.

I know how hard this is. I also know what turned my M around was when I put my focus on the kind of person I wanted to be, no matter what my H behaved like.

I became kinder to the people I know; my son, my grandkids, my neighbors. But I also practiced looking strangers in the eye and really trying to give kindness and empathy to everyone I came in contact with. It helped me to think of everyone as going through some type of pain (because, really, aren't we all?).

I was separated from my H so it was probably easier for me but I made it my mission to always reply to him with kindness and never to give anger.

I do not just become a doormat, though. I set boundaries that I would not continue to discuss painful events from the past that were already sincerely apologized for. I also stated my needs in a non demanding way because I was willing to live without my H in order to keep my core values.

My H is far from perfect. Do I wish I could change some things about him? Absolutely! Just like I wish I could win the lottery.

But, you know what? When I changed, he changed, too. It's hard to be selfish and mean to someone who is not afraid to be kind and vulnerable.

It's a consistent, over time thing, just like the book and the vets say here. You can't give up because someone else doesn't appreciate your changes immediately. With enough consistency and time, they will or you will become someone who wants a better partner.

[mamabird]

Thanks SS -
I really am trying to be more thoughtful and less defensive - I know it's an issue for me. It's come up in therapy a few times too. Combined with the lousy communication between me and my H, it's no wonder we ended up in that spot.

I'm happy to report that things seem to be getting better. Last week's MC session was very hard and left us both a little drained, but I think it inspired us to work harder and we had a good week. H and I attended our kids' school's fundraiser which is a fancy evening. H enjoyed socializing with his friends but I told him at the end of the night that I felt a little abandoned and he seemed to understand that. I think he is working hard at listening to me without taking what I am saying personally and learning that he is not responsible for my happiness. This has been an issue for us since our first date.

As I said, I have been working on being less defensive. Today in MC we discussed trying to stay more positive or seeing the bigger picture. I tend to dwell on the negative and I think that's a bummer for H. It's a better habit for me to get into as well. H also is getting into a space where he can accept that I am working to make changes, so I hope the upswing continues for a while.

I've also finally found some GAL that I really am enjoying - I've started playing around with succulent plants which are very pretty and easy to grow. I think this is going to be a very good hobby for me and I'm very excited about it. It doesn't have the social aspect but that is ok.

[25yearsmlc]

Sounds as if some painful but valuable growth is happening...GOOD!!

Thanks SS -
I really am trying to be more thoughtful and less defensive - I know it's an issue for me. It's come up in therapy a few times too. Combined with the lousy communication between me and my H, it's no wonder we ended up in that spot.


So what are you doing about it? Poor communication might have been partly related to the negativity. No one wants to tell someone prone to defensive reactions or negative spiralling, anything "uncomfortable" and a lot of life is that way.

So I mean, I know you're TALKING about it in therapy, but are there ANY specific actions you can take, or avoid, that you can measurably work on, starting now?


I'm happy to report that things seem to be getting better. Last week's MC session was very hard and left us both a little drained, but I think it inspired us to work harder and we had a good week.

Well, see? There are SOME counselors out there who do help. (We found one!) So, more power to you if you found one! Just make sure you two stay solution based, not reverting to the blame of the past or the rehashing and old wounds getting new attention. Been there, done that....NOT fun.


H and I attended our kids' school's fundraiser which is a fancy evening. H enjoyed socializing with his friends

but I told him at the end of the night that I felt a little abandoned and he seemed to understand that. I think he is working hard at listening to me without taking what I am saying personally and learning that he is not responsible for my happiness. This has been an issue for us since our first date.


So, was your feeling abandoned, his fault? If not, why bring it up? Better yet, why NOT take charge of your happiness and mingle more on your own? GAL means getting OUT of the comfort zone.

I'm not trying to give you a 2 x 4, but I feel like it'd be weird of me not to mention it, given that you say "HE is not responsible" for your happiness, but then you SEEMED to be holding him responsible for how you felt "abandoned" at a fancy fun evening for your daughter's school.

Surely not all the people there are only HIS friends?

And even if they were, do you see where I'm going with this?


As I said, I have been working on being less defensive. Today in MC we discussed trying to stay more positive or seeing the bigger picture. I tend to dwell on the negative and I think that's a bummer for H.

No offense Regretful, I'm rooting for you and how you dig deep. But honey, of course that's a bummer for h. It's a bummer for everyone around it.

Congrats on seeing this.


It's a better habit for me to get into as well.

YES and it's called feeling happier. Happiness does NOT land on us from the sky.
Happiness is based on a ton of things we do, primarily OUR attitude towards life and others and our reactions to unexpected events. It also includes cognitive behavioral therapy.

In its' simplest form, we STOP ourselves from becoming a Swirling Vortex Of Negativity (or as my sisters and I call it, "SVONing"...we must work to avoid being a SVON or SVONing...)


H also is getting into a space where he can accept that I am working to make changes, so I hope the upswing continues for a while.


Sounds good. Do you see that YOU DO have some control over this^^, since it's YOUR work to do? I mean, this part, is yours...right?

I've also finally found some GAL that I really am enjoying - I've started playing around with succulent plants which are very pretty and easy to grow. I think this is going to be a very good hobby for me and I'm very excited about it. It doesn't have the social aspect but that is ok.

It's a good start if it relaxes you and makes the place look better...I just hope in time you meet some NEW people. Since you are identifying behaviors you do NOT want, you'll have to replace them with positive behaviors you DO want..so you need role models honey.

Look for the happier ones at a garden club or some other GAL thing... the ones who are engaged in the world, friendly, not snarky remarks (unless they're hilarious) and those who see life as at least partly an adventure...and hang with them!

Good luck!