OK. I will bite, lick, suck uh... what is this page going to be about? By the way I am convinced that men say they want a woman who do those things until they meet her and they set out to change her, put her down and just get mad because she may not be packaged the way he wants. By the way, that includes females that do the same thing. My liking sex has only brought me pain. I wish I was low-drive then I couldn't be hurt this way and I would have more in common with other women. I feel like an alien from another planet. Add the fact that I am black with a black H and all it does is get worst.
From an HD male perspective, I'm sure it sounds like an instant hit, and with a lot of LD men, I'm sure it would help...
But for my H, at least, things like those make him feel pressured. He *knows* he's wanted, and he *knows* I do all the little things I can to let him know that, and to let him know I'm trying... but the problem is that he feels bad because he wishes he were more responsive and he just isn't. While he appreciates the physical side of the little things, most of the time - most - it just adds to his frustration and sense of inadequacy.
Which tends to have the opposite effect on his libido. It helps as it adds up over time to make what there is better - at least, I think so, or I wouldn't have been doing little things like this for the last year and a half - but it doesn't necessarily increase frequency.
So... well... *shrugs* Most of the HD women here have likely tried most of that. (I haven't tried some of them because I hate skirts and dresses, but anything involving different ways of touching/approaching him, sexy clothes/lingerie/panties/nudity... oh, yeah, been there, done that.)
The biggest thing that I've experienced is that I have to be very lucky with timing to trigger a reaction. His mind just has to be in the right place to go from happy loving to sexy loving.
I'm sure from an HD perspective it seems like a dream come true... but to the LD partner (or at least mine) it seems like a guilt-trip, almost. If he's missing something in our relationship, and I'm constantly throwing my underwear at him, that doesn't resolve *his* issues, it just shows that I'm obsessed with my own.
We've reached a point where he makes a point to be more appreciative of such gestures, and I make a point to be more appreciative of everything else he does... but before we reached this point, I banged my head against every wall I could find to entice him. And it just made things worse.
So I would say it depends on the relationship, and there are definitely times - 'specially in a SSM - when a woman needs to be *very* careful how she approaches gestures like those. I'm sure they help a lot of the time... but sometimes, no. They don't.
I am turning in revolution
these are the scars that silence carved
on me
Quote: I'm sure from an HD perspective it seems like a dream come true... but to the LD partner (or at least mine) it seems like a guilt-trip, almost. If he's missing something in our relationship, and I'm constantly throwing my underwear at him, that doesn't resolve *his* issues, it just shows that I'm obsessed with my own.
Wow - definately....
For YEARS (we're talking at least 6 here) I tried all of the suggestions (except for the videos and pictures), but included magazines and internet pics... His reaction: I put pressure on him to 'perform'. so after years of this, I STOPPED... this was before I ever heard of doing 180's... thinking he'd miss something, and come forward himself.... NOTHING. Later he said he was a bit confused, but felt relief.
Truly, when I first read The Sex Starved Marriage, I thought it was written about my H and me... with me being the HD spouse, and him the LD. Unfortunately, things had already progressed so far, that I didn't care anymore - I no longer had any desire for him at all... none... flatline. And this left me open to accepting the love of someone else. The rest, as they say, is history (or maybe the last unwritten chapter in Michelle's book). The OM won my heart as well as my body, and my H and I are going through a drawn-out divorce, since he said he "never knew".... give me a break!!!! he 'didn't know' when I tearfully asked him what was wrong, why didn't he hold me, make love to me - was I making him mad?? Was I unattractive??? asking him, begging him... crying into my pillow next to him at night... the answer was always "it's not you, it's me. I'm (pick one) A) too tired B) too anxious C) too stressed out D) not feeling well E) have a busy day tomorrow F) .... you name an excuse, and it was here" Eventually, I let it be "him", and decided to just forget it, and go on in my own way. Sad, isn't it??? Now he regrets how he 'pushed me away', and wants to make love to me, and I can't even imagine it - don't want anything to do with it.
The good news is - actually the incredible great news!! is that the man I love is also HD, and I have never known such joy in my life!!! I feel open and free and loved and am fully accepted - encouraged!! - in my sexuality. What a comfort, what ecstasy!! And it carries over into every part of our lives - communication, committment, intimacy, trust, laughter - I can give myself fully to him, and he to me. It is the most fantastic gift from God, that we have found each other, and I am grateful for it every day.
I wish my H luck - I'm sure there are many women out there who would appreciate his good qualities (and he has many), and can live with what I experienced as his lower desire - which may actually reflect more of the 'norm' in the bell-curve - I really don't know. There were other issues as well which contributed greatly to our distancing... too much to go into here. It was certainly NOT just a sexual incompatability. But the HD/LD discrepancy brought the spiral of many negative emotions, and - LD men, learn a lesson here - follow Michelle's advice, and stop the downward spiral IMMEDIATELY!!! or your M may end up where mine is.... gone.
Quote: The good news is - actually the incredible great news!! is that the man I love is also HD, and I have never known such joy in my life!!! I feel open and free and loved and am fully accepted - encouraged!! - in my sexuality. What a comfort, what ecstasy!! And it carries over into every part of our lives - communication, committment, intimacy, trust, laughter - I can give myself fully to him, and he to me. It is the most fantastic gift from God, that we have found each other, and I am grateful for it every day.
You know the sad thing is that when a HD marries a HD, they can achieve this, when a LD marries a LD, they might achieve this, but when a HD marries a LD, you now have the marriage from hell!
Don't worry to much about the hubby, there is a HUGE segment of the female population that would LOVE to marry a sexless man. A man that had no interest in sex would be absolutely PERFECT for my wife.
I think that there is a curse to being HD. If you marry another HD person, you have the chance to achieve the ULTIMATE marriage, the consumate marriage, which VERY few people actually achieve and maintain (I think I saw an estimate of far less then 25% of marrriages ever get to this stage). If you marry a LD spouse, the best you can hope for is a TOLERABLE marriage, and if you marry a ND spouse, YOU NOW HAVE THE MARRIAGE FROM HELL!
Quote: I think that there is a curse to being HD. If you marry another HD person, you have the chance to achieve the ULTIMATE marriage, the consumate marriage, which VERY few people actually achieve and maintain (I think I saw an estimate of far less then 25% of marrriages ever get to this stage). If you marry a LD spouse, the best you can hope for is a TOLERABLE marriage, and if you marry a ND spouse, YOU NOW HAVE THE MARRIAGE FROM HELL!
*blinkblink* Not really. Perhaps it's not as bad for me because I'm not extreme HD and he's LD, not ND, but we have a wonderful relationship outside of the bedroom, and there have been massive improvements in the physical side of our relationship since we both really started working on it. He's always been my best friend - a connection I treasure more than anything else - and now, he's becoming more fully my lover. And I've realized it's not that he doesn't want me, it's just that he expresses his love for me in different ways, that I'm learning to appreciate as well... and that he's made it as far as he has and is even willing to work on it makes me mentally much calmer and loving even when there isn't any action. (-:
No relationship is perfect. Every relationship has problems. Yes, having similar libidos would make one of those problems less so, but what happens if she burns macaroni and refuses to spend time with your family? Or what if, after the initial hormone-spree wears off, he doesn't help out around the house and goes out with his buddies every night? Depending on how the two handle problems and how much it means to the other, you could very well have a well-consummated marriage but a miserable one nonetheless.
So, basically... while I understand that you're feeling very bitter and angry, and that an anonymous forum is an ideal place to express that, I really kind of resent that in almost every post I've seen you make you seem to assume that every couple in a similar position judges their relationship the same way you do. Maybe it's just some of my remaining insecurity speaking out, but it's kind of disheartening to have come so far from the opposite side and then see an attitude of "if you make yourself sexy and throw yourself at him, it will solve all your problems." The whole point of this place is that LD men *aren't* reassured and comforted by such gestures. To see it followed by "you can't have a happy relationship with different libidos" just... it's not terribly reassuring in the midst of a mini-down spell, even when those happen even more rarely than sex.
To the HD woman in a relationship, it really doesn't help to hear that HD men would absolutely love all of the measures they've most likely been struggling through for quite some time, and it can't be helpful for the HD man or LD either in a relationship, if they're in one of those moments of doubt and despair, to see someone say that you can simply *never* have a great relationship if you don't have the same sex drive.
I can't ask you to tone down your posts, because I DO understand that you're bitter and angry, and sometimes that just needs venting... but could you please reconsider some of the gross generalizations you make about men and women? They don't help people here, and it seems to me that they really can't be helping you, either, in the long-term. /-:
I am turning in revolution
these are the scars that silence carved
on me
Lina, I agree with so much that you have stated in your post. I have always been HD and my husband for the first 17 years of our marriage was HD also. The one thing that really clicked with us - no matter what - was sex. We had always had a great sex life but that did not mean that we had a great marriage. We had a very stormy marriage for years - i have always adored the ground he walked on but he always kept me at arms length. That is just his personality.
LD has entered our relationship due to illness and it has been a very hard adjustment for me. But on the flip side of the coin we have a relationship now that I only dreamed of years ago. HE is much more calm and appreciative of me. He makes an effort to attend family functions with me where before I went to lots of things by myself and with my kids. He has become my best friend and I am grateful and appreciative of his efforts to work at our marriage. In years past I always felt like any work being done was on my part - and sometimes that was a lonely place even if we were having great sex.
There is much more to marriage than just sex - this coming from someone who has a high sex drive! If he wanted sex all day every day and reverted back the the jackass he could be years ago we would probably not survive it. I can work at the LD stuff - I realize it is medication - not lack of love and devotion on his part - but I don't know that I could go through the coldness that used to be in our marriage - even if fireworks did come from the bedroom regularly.
There is so much more to making our marriage work, love, affection, loyalty, desire to please the other. I try to remind myself when I feel upset of the current situation that I married him in sickness and health and he is not doing this to make me angry or to hurt or control me.
I realize that most people on this site are not dealing with the same situation and I know that I would have a hard time dealing with this if I felt my spouse was shutting me out totally and disregarding my feelings, our vows, and acting like I was a sex maniac. Those are very hurtful things that cause one to want to be spiteful and just plain angry.
I do know this - life is too short to be bitter and angry for long periods of time - expecially if your in a marriage that one of the spouses refuses to see that the other has ligitamate needs that a spouse if supposed to fulfill - not out of a sense of duty - but out of a feeling of love and devotion.
This site has helped me more that anyone can know. I've learned to really recognize and appreciate when my H is showing his love for me in other ways than sexual now. We still have sex about every three weeks and it is always great so I am trying to reel my own desires in so that I am not miserable. It is a fight every day to overcome my own desires but I am working at it each day.
Hours later, and after reading Neicie's post, I really feel the need to apologize. I think I may have come off more harshly than I intended, even though I was trying to not do so.
I truly do have sympathy for your situation and I absolutely understand the need to vent. So some of that last was a bit of an overreaction on my part. Just been a bit down lately, and I reacted defensively out of frustration. I don't usually, and I'm sorry. /-:
I am turning in revolution
these are the scars that silence carved
on me
I'm not trying to push any action onto anyone. I just linked to a site and said "For what it's worth". Heck I kind of assumed it was old news to all you HD women working on your LD men.
Now the comments about the great marriage and compatible sex drives. It is not impossible to have a great marriage when sex drives are VERY incompatible, BUT IT WILL BE A LOT OF CONSTANT WORK. There are some differences between HD men and HD women. I believe that HD women do not place as much weight on sex as the HD man does. You have all mentioned that your husbands are meeting some of your other needs, like Affection and Communication. THIS IS GREAT! I wish they would also meet your Sex needs. But for men, these things are appreciated, but they do not even fall in the top 5 needs for men (on average). For many HD men like myself, the other needs are pretty much meaningless if my wife does not desire to ML to me. I want to be lovers, not companions.
It's like taking a class where your term paper makes up 1/2 the grade. You could ace all the other assignments in the class, but if you fail the temr paper, you still FAIL the class. I hate to say it, but this is the way I feel about sex in my marriage, fail the sex and it really does not matter if you meet some other needs, they just don't carry enough weight to avoid FAILURE.
Another way to look at it is this, "If I were dating instead of married, would I date my wife?". The answer to be very blunt is I would NEVER consider dating a woman like my wife is today. I could never be compatible with a person that has no desire for sex. Heck, I can no even comprehend how a person can have no desire for sex!
Why is it that the hormone's only wear off on SOME people. I have been married for 15 years, and mine have not worn off at all. There are a lot of women on here that have not worn off much either. So why only some people, and why did I have to marry one of them?
Don't underestimate or minimize the importance of sex to HD wives. I left my H after 10+ years of struggling along in a sex-starved marriage. I left for the same reasons that I have read in many of your posts and the posts of other HD spouses - my needs for sex and physical intimacy weren't being met.
I, as a HD woman, need the same sorts of things you do, CeMar. And I don't place less importance on them because I am a woman.
I'm not the first one to say this, but I don't think it's a man/woman issue. It's a HD/LD issue. Please don't assume that HD woman don't need sex/physical intimacy as much as HD men - we do, and it hurts and demoralizes us as much as it does HD men to be married to a LD spouse.
he 'didn't know' when I tearfully asked him what was wrong, why didn't he hold me, make love to me - was I making him mad?? Was I unattractive??? asking him, begging him... crying into my pillow next to him at night... the answer was always "it's not you, it's me. I'm (pick one) A) too tired B) too anxious C) too stressed out D) not feeling well E) have a busy day tomorrow F) .... you name an excuse, and it was here" Eventually, I let it be "him", and decided to just forget it, and go on in my own way. Sad, isn't it??? Now he regrets how he 'pushed me away', and wants to make love to me, and I can't even imagine it - don't want anything to do with it. 