2chiquitos - I have missed you too!!! How are you?
I think I get what you mean about carrying his guilt. I was thinking about it more from the point of view that when he does speak with the kids he knows what they have been doing and they can talk about that. I think that makes THEM feel better.
Of course I should not care how he takes it, if I am truly detached and doing it just for the children. It seems its one thing to be estranged from your spouse but too much to be estranged from the kids too. I mean does H NEED to be estranged from them as well ? I can rationally ( not always emotionally) understand that giving him space from me - of course the kids cannot and he should not expect that either. Unless he really wants an ugly R with his kids. Which I can't believe he would want in the long run. And really neither do I- no matter what the outcome of the R I have with him.
2chiq thank you for your post. You have given me a lot to think about!
TPS Me: 44 H: 42 M14 T17 S10 D7 10/10 H moves out after death of his father-same month 21/04/12 H is 'DONE' 04/05/12 OW/PA confirmed (rumors from 2010) July '14 H ends affair May '15 H moves back home
Me & H: 44 D7, D6, S3 Together: 20y, M: 17y EA: 11/13/10, Sep: 12/23/10 EA becomes PA: Spring 2011 H filed for D: 09/06/12 D Negotiating began 2/15 OW seemingly gone on 3/15 Still negotiating D
KG! I am good thank you! How are you? I will post am update tomorrow as its bedtime for me now. Feeling the love and the detachment like I have not felt before. Love you and will update tomorrow.
I hope you and your babies are well.
Xxx
TPS Me: 44 H: 42 M14 T17 S10 D7 10/10 H moves out after death of his father-same month 21/04/12 H is 'DONE' 04/05/12 OW/PA confirmed (rumors from 2010) July '14 H ends affair May '15 H moves back home
"The balance between acting out of love and not feeling like a ‘doormat’ or even a pursuer is where I find a struggle. Is love given even when one removes themselves out of harms way? Is showing myself love by not initiating contact with H (except for matter of the kids), also extending love to H? It may be since he has declared he does not want me in his life. Is that respect for H? Is it respect for myself?"
You posted this on 25's thread. I wanted to bring it over here so we can talk about it.
I do not know if you have read my thread but my xw and I do not talk... at all.
Quick recap - we had a very loving separation, she told me it wasn't goodbye and she wanted me in her life - turned to needing space - turned to I don't know how to have you in my life... but then every once in awhile send a facebook post, or a random text. Hardly enough contact to even be considered an acquaintance but ripped off my band-aid every time.
Her walking away from me was one of the harder things in life I've had to deal with.. especially since it happened before.. when I was 9 with my father. So many abandonment issues....
.... that I finally had to deal with because N/C made me...
I asked myself those same questions often. If I'm honest - there are still times when it comes up... and I always ask myself the same question to get the answer
"Val - what are you truly afraid of here?"
Because more often or not it wasn't about if I was being loving to xw or myself - it is always deeper.
Like how after my dad left - I made love a performance based action. If I loved a certain way or did good deeds - I would be loved in return.
Or fear - If I let them leave, I have no control over the sitch and they may never come back.
Both of these things stem from abandonment issues.
And I needed to look at my actions NOW.
1. Am I kind to xw when I talk to her - Yes 2. Am I making sure I'm not doing things out of anger when there is communication - Yes. 3. Have I communicated to her that I respect her decision but that the door is open - Yes.
And by that time the fear was over and I was back to seeing N/C as a loving action.. because I respected her decision and I respected my heart.
Soooo back to you....
Looking at your actions outside of N/C. Do you feel that they are positive and loving? Do you feel like your H knows where you stand in regards to him and your marriage?
What do you fear the most from N/C?
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
I do have abandonment issues. My father left as well. And that has been the at he core of my relationships and particularly with in my H/M.
I became a woman trying to control my environment, so that the abandonment would not happen again. Constantly planning, organizing...never just being and letting others be. I made sure that the the people in my life always knew I was there...right there...to do anything for them, even to the detriment of my own self-worth, self-love and self-respect. I was afraid that if they didn't know I was there, they would forget about me.
I was afraid that if I said/did something that they might not like, they would get mad and leave.
I THOUGHT I was showing love. I thought this made me a giving person. In reality I was a very taking person...needy... and seeking praise and validation from others, especially my H.
Long story short: The first time I went NC with H it was forced upon me. He refused to speak to me, even more so when he started his PA. This extended to the kids and eventually I began to work on myself, through DB, so that I could find a way to encourage H to reconnect with the kids. I think that has been working. In fact I can say with certainty it has. If it had not been for this place and my coaches, I would have taken a very vindictive path with H and would have blocked him out of our lives.
I was also of course very encouraged to work on my M. I don't know if I can say I was consciously aware at the time, but today I am have come to realize that I am driven by a deep conviction that I do not want my kids to grow up with abandonment issues. I am willing to do anything I can to give my kids a second chance to have the family they were born into and is their right to grow up in. Even if that means letting him go.
And, I still love my H.
So I tried to find 'ways' to reach out to him, that were not about the kids. Searching for a means to reconnect with him, in a 'cool and casual' way. And of course on this rollarcoaster, there have been times when things seemed to be softening with him and I thought that was working as well. And maybe it has to a certain extent. Not enough to save my M, but better than if I hadn't started this journey. I am sure of that. And DB has been saving me.
Today: H is working in another country. He is with OW and he says he is done and has moved on.
He calls the kids once a day at a specified and agreed upon time. He used to go weeks without speaking with them.
Up until very recently I used those phone calls as an opportunity to speak with H as well. Friendly chit chat (I thought) despite his reluctance to want to speak with me (more of me looking for some sort of validation from H that I may still have a chance). More recently and upon deeper reflection I have been thinking about this topic of love, respect and giving real love, and having real self-respect.
Did I feel like I was respecting myself when I forced these little chit chats with H?
No.
Was my heart protected?
No.
Was I respecting H's choices no matter how much I don't agree with them and have a different POV?
No.
So very recently I have stopped using the kids' phone calls as a means for me to throw in a little chit chat as well. Have I spoken to him otherwise? Yes. We have two young kids and there are things we have to talk about regardless of the sitch.
I have texted him when the kids were busy during his normal time of calling so that he could rearrange another time to call.
I have emailed him pictures of special events the kids have been engaged in while he has been gone.
And I know I have done that out of love for my kids and respect for their R with their father.
I remain more true to myself. That means when we do talk I am friendly and positive and even 'jokey'.
I realise (slowly) that at this stage it may not be about saving my M anymore, but saving myself and saving the R my kids have with their father. At least making sure I am not an obstacle to him creating a R with them.
So Val to (finally!) answer your questions (apologies for the run-on post),
Looking at your actions outside of N/C. Do you feel that they are positive and loving? Do you feel like your H knows where you stand in regards to him and your marriage?
What do you fear the most from N/C?
The few interactions we have are loving and positive. They have been for awhile, but I have now removed my 'needs'/'neediness' (selfishness?) from the equation.
He knows where I stand with regards to the M and him. I feel I have communicated this in a loving manner. But I fear with NC, he will forget about me, or think I no longer care. I fear NC will be the end of hope and the reality of the current status quo.
TPS Me: 44 H: 42 M14 T17 S10 D7 10/10 H moves out after death of his father-same month 21/04/12 H is 'DONE' 04/05/12 OW/PA confirmed (rumors from 2010) July '14 H ends affair May '15 H moves back home
Busting, I like your goal to preserve the R your H has with the kids. Your fear about the NC? I can see how you feel this way. But there's no way there can be absolutely NC because of the children. So keep doing what you are doing and stay on track by writing here.
You've grown a lot during this time, and I know you can see that. Feel good about yourself because you've given this your all and continue being a wonderful mother.
The few interactions we have are loving and positive. They have been for awhile, but I have now removed my 'needs'/'neediness' (selfishness?) from the equation.
He knows where I stand with regards to the M and him. I feel I have communicated this in a loving manner. But I fear with NC, he will forget about me, or think I no longer care. I fear NC will be the end of hope and the reality of the current status quo.
Ah - so you have your answer.....
and it's a hard truth of a fear that is very difficult to face.
But fear and love can't live in the same space. You have to make a choice.
And it sounds like they are.. love him and let him go OR desperately hold on because of fear....
The latter won't work... because the truth is that your H is already gone. Holding onto that fear is holding onto an echo of once was. Not was is.
I say that not to hurt you but in the hopes of freeing you....
just as he made the choice to walk away - only he can make a choice in walking towards you.
Yes you influence him by showing best self, GALing, etc.. but in the end.. this is his journey to take.. not yours.
I know that's a hard pill to swallow.. but I think you intellectually get it.
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
I am so proud of the distance you've come on this journey. Despite the lack of hope. Despite the OW. Despite the physical distance. Despite the uncertainy.
That is what DBing is all about. And at the same time still moving on with your life w your kids.
You've done an amazing job enabling H to have a better R w your kids. And, in doing so I think he will soften towards you. Even if is just congenial co-parenting.
I know, I know...I hate the thought that it may just come to only that. But, the truth is that it is better for your kids to have two parents that get along and can make joint decisions and each have their own Rs with them.
You are an inspiration, bustin!
M- 18 T-21 S-14,11 & 10 BD 6-18-2012 (OW-EA) H moved out 11-3-2012 10-5-13 Me- I want a divorce. I want to move on w my life. 11-25-13 Jointly filed.
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