AJ, I've been reading some of your archives, and amazed at where you've been and where you are now. Your words have helped me so much. Thank you for taking the time to care. It means a lot.
Okay, I'll take what you said, every bit of it. It's that battle between my heart and mind, and that's difficult to manage when my heart and mind start changing opinions. What the world says, verses what MLC is, verse my feelings for him, verses my buried pain, vs the thought of dumping it all and running away to a new place and a new existence far, far away. Hiring a nanny, working remotely from a beach, traveling the world. Maybe I will someday. ^^
I've thought it good to post what I'm feeling, even though what I'm feeling may not always be the right approach, or what I would recommend to someone else, in a moment of clarity. It keeps me from acting I guess, and keeps me in perspective, that I am doing good, but don't kid myself that I've still got much further to go.
At the end of the day, the focus always goes back to loving these cute, silly boys, and how at some point this life altering moment of time is just going to be a blip, overshadowed by a happy and exciting new life.
S8 has started talking to me like he is 14. I look at him sometimes and wonder where he came from. His vocabulary, his thought process, just blows me away. This time has allowed me to develop deeper, individual relationships with each one. I love how open they are with me and how they just want to hang out and talk to me about anything and everything. I never want to lose that. I am so glad they are so happy and are handling things so well. This time with them is a gift I would not have taken otherwise.
The latest...
Boys asked to call H before bed last night, and they did. Once again he sounded horrible, like I had woken him up. He texted me after to say thanks, that he didn't realize how much he needed that. This made me anxious. I asked him if he was okay and no response, so I called him. The depression was thick. (Even more than I was picking up on, because friend told me later he called her yesterday to talk him down from a ledge.) I told him I was concerned about him, and he said he gave up that right to burden me four months ago and that I need to just think he is fine and not worry about him. That he'll do anything to make me feel assured of that because he doesn't want me worry about him. We ended up talking about nonsense and he sounded much better after.
Today he says he is doing great!
M38,H39 M:16Y BD:8/12 OWDB:11/12 S:11/12-5/13 "Temp" home:6/13 OW dropped:9/13 "I love you":12/13 H ring on:2/14 Depression back:5/15 "I'm done:" 7/15 H moved out: 3/16 H moved back: 12/16 Working on us: 3/17
Raine, posting her to clarify thoughts is the true gift of this site. Along the way you find others that may give a few pointers or challenge some thoughts. They all help, but putting your thoughts down is the real gold in my opinion. The board has helped me a lot through all of this. I am blessed to have found so many helpful people and hopefully I can pay some of that back But keep in mind that it's your life and your decisions that count. We can only support you and challenge some of the thoughts. Don't stop posting, please. You'd be surprised how it helps others as well. We all go through the various stages, but it sometimes helps to see others going through similar. I caught another thread a while back with some folks who were here about the same time as me. They are going through things with their ex similar to what I deal with these days. It helps to know it's not just me.
As for your H, the depression is not a *bad* thing per se. Know that feeling you have of your heart and mind being out of sync sometimes? Imagine that tenfold. But it's how growth happens. It's happening for you as well. For him, there is much more for him to do and his body is letting him know it. He has to go through it. I say this so you don't worry so much. His ups and downs are a nauseating reminder of what he's going through. But he must go through it. And he will.
Glad you're enjoying the boys. They grow up so fast. An 8 year old talking like a 14 year old? Yep, par for the course. The hard part is noticing when they act like an 8 year old again. Happens in the blink of an eye! They are kids after all.
Peace, AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Was catching up on your thread, wow, you got a lot going on!
The depression/self-loathing/self-hatred is hard to see. On one level, it can be validating that hey, I was right, it's not me. But it is heart breaking to see someone you love and care about so much be in a tremendous amount of pain.
My H also said he has "demons" to deal with (but didn't tell me what). Has said many times he's a bad person, a failure, a miserable mess. He has also said he doesn't want to be a burden. I remember a specific incident where I told my H that being in a bad place didn't make him a bad person. He told me he didn't want to hear me say that, to stop saying that.
More MLC script?
I totally get the heart and head battle - mine seem to fight it out about something every day
We are the lucky ones as far as spending time with our children. I feel like my H has missed out on so much over this past year + while he has been checked out into his own little self-centered world of pain and illusions. I don't regret one moment I've spent with the boys, not one.
You sound good, strong, like you have a lot of clarity despite the internal battle going on.
Keep up the great work
Ps - hi AJ! Great insight as always
Bomb January 2012 - doesn't feel the same about me
~ "There is nothing love cannot face; there is no limit to its faith, hope, and endurance."
AJ, I will keep posting. I think the journaling has a very good impact on my life, and it helps to have feedback on it too. A lot of people have helped me through this difficult time and agree with the give back. It would be nice to know how some of these stories have turned out. I need to hear more positives, including those who move on and find happiness without their spouse.
T, you've described it so perfectly. It's hard seeing someone you love go through so much pain and feel so helpless to it. I wish there was an easier way.
This last week has been pretty hard. Highs and lows. There is an awakening going on with H, but at the same time he is still very much in extreme replay mode. And when he is in replay, he is moving fast, as if time is running out for these kind of antics. I'm dealing with him talking to me a lot and opening up, depression and tears, and also him spending his first full night with OW#4. This is very fast. He just met her, much faster and much more intense than any other previous OW.
I'm having a hard time with the juxtaposition of the two extremes of him knowing what he is doing is wrong and how much it's hurting others, coupled with near suicidal depression, to the self full-fulfillment and ongoing search for happiness in all the quick fix places. I guess I'm learning to have zero expectations, not just with him, but with how MLC will express itself in him. The reality is he is going to open up to me at the same time he is in the euphoria of a new and YOUNG love affair.
I gave him a hug when he came to see the boys over the weekend, and he didn't let me go. I wasn't letting him go either. I've been really worried he was going to hurt himself, and that's been really hard to deal with. I felt relieved to see him. He then pulled back and went in to kiss me. That caught me completely off guard and I just hug him again and he kissed me on the cheek. I'm so am not ready for that or would be while he has OW in the picture. But it also just feels so weird to me that here is my H, and I don't feel comfortable kissing him.
Some things that have come out that are interesting to me:
He doesn't remember how he acted towards me or treated me at bomb drop or the horrible things he said about me to other people. I think he has thought we have had this kind of respectable, friendly existence and that we both always knew what he is thinking now, that this is all on him and doesn't have to do with me or the marriage. He thinks the whole time he has said nothing but good things about me to other people, that I have always been understanding and a compassionate.
He wants to start speeding the process up. When replying about him opening up on his own timeline, he said not only does he want to get through this mess he is in faster and be fixed in the head, but also moving to his own place, with his own furniture where he can have the boys and have friends over. He thinks that will make him feel better. I had little reaction to this, along the lines of I can understand that. But here is where I have issue. This now means he'll be spending a lot more money, and he will be using what is now marital funds to have a place he will likely bring women back to. I feel like if that is going to be the case, I should file for D. I don't know how I should approach this. I'm very torn. This would still be a few months away at the earliest and he has talked about it before. I just feel like I need to start coming to terms with what I will and won't accept.
He is still very much thinking about getting back together vs us going our separate ways. He said that he will have a lot he will need to tell me if we were to ever get back together, and if we don't, he will still have a lot to tell me to make things right.
He has been realizing a lot of things, things that he felt okay about in the past, but now he doesn't, that there were people that he didn't treat right and didn't end things right with them. I find this ironic with how he is treating women now, but I am thinking in his mind they all must realize that it's "just friends" or that if something does get super serious, he would end it with everyone else.
He thinks the kids see him a lot and are well adjusted and everything is great. That the kids spend more time with him now than when we were together and they're super happy because they get to play with him so much. He spends around 15 hours total per month with them and that is mainly with just the two oldest. He wanted to setup something, and I told him I couldn't go then because of S's appt. He wanted to know what appt and I said counseling. He wanted to know why. I just said that S has been acting out and having a hard time with thing and when I talked to him about talking to someone else, he wanted to go, so I set it up. H was pretty upset by this and got off the phone quickly.
He talked to his mom and she and I later talked. His parents are still struggling with him and don't know how I'm being so strong and haven't kicked him to the curb. She asked him why he just doesn't go home. He told her he still has a lot of things to work out and it's not good if he does it there, that we have a better chance of getting back together if he can get himself worked out first. He told his mom that I am the one he is talking to and opening up to.
He tends to end up in tears after he talks to me. Emotions are very near the surface with me. Talking to me about songs or other things that have some kind of meaning to him make him really emotional.
M38,H39 M:16Y BD:8/12 OWDB:11/12 S:11/12-5/13 "Temp" home:6/13 OW dropped:9/13 "I love you":12/13 H ring on:2/14 Depression back:5/15 "I'm done:" 7/15 H moved out: 3/16 H moved back: 12/16 Working on us: 3/17
Quote of the day: "While we may judge things as good or bad, karma doesn't. It's a simple case of like gets like, the ultimate balancing act, nothing more, nothing less. And if you're deteremined to fix every situation you deem as bad, or difficult, or somehow unsavory, then you rob the person of their own chance to fix it, learn from it, or even grow from it. Some things, no matter how painful, happen for a reason. A reason you or I may not be able to grasp at first sight, not without knowing a person's entire life story—their cumulative past. And to just barge in and interfere, no matter how well-intentioned, would be akin to robbing them of their journey. Something that's better not done." -Alyson Noel
M38,H39 M:16Y BD:8/12 OWDB:11/12 S:11/12-5/13 "Temp" home:6/13 OW dropped:9/13 "I love you":12/13 H ring on:2/14 Depression back:5/15 "I'm done:" 7/15 H moved out: 3/16 H moved back: 12/16 Working on us: 3/17
My H also said he has "demons" to deal with (but didn't tell me what). Has said many times he's a bad person, a failure, a miserable mess. He has also said he doesn't want to be a burden. I remember a specific incident where I told my H that being in a bad place didn't make him a bad person. He told me he didn't want to hear me say that, to stop
I think this is part of their mlc. On some level they must know what their doing is not rational, but fear drives them to do it anyway. I've heard all the same from W. I used to respond with,"having bad thoughts doesn't make you a bad person, but you must fight to not act on them. I know you, you're not bad." She wouldn't normally say something like you're my H you have to feel that way. Looking back I can see the struggle she was having.
Raine, I love your quote. So appropriate.
M - 42 W- 37 S's - 9,6 M-12 T-14 FIL- diagnosed with fatal disease spring 2011 ILYBNILWY - march '12 FIL - died jan '13 W Moved out week later
My H also said he has "demons" to deal with (but didn't tell me what).
You know, it's also possible that it will turn out that during those years you thought he was a great husband, stuff was going on that you knew nothing about.
When I look back at my (long, now defunct) marriage, I see things now that make me suspicious, that never raised a red flag at the time. I'll never know for sure, but from a distance now, I have to admit that it's possible there was more infidelity and inappropriate behavior happening during the years when I thought everything was good.
I think though that his demons, or at least some of them, are things that happened before he even met me.
Either way, his stuff to deal with... I know that I have at least honored him and our M. I still believe the truth will surface eventually - just can't say where I will be when that happens.
Bomb January 2012 - doesn't feel the same about me
~ "There is nothing love cannot face; there is no limit to its faith, hope, and endurance."
TVS, most of my H's demons began when he was just a preteen, so it had nothing to do with me either.
And like you, I'm making sure that if/when I am out of this marriage, I can walk out with my head held high, knowing that I did the best I could and have nothing to be sorry for.
Looking back, I'm not sure if we had a chance of having a successful marriage. I hit rock bottom during BD and have spent that time improving myself. H ran and is just now starting to deal with things, so he's much further behind me.
All you can do is take care of yourself. And have hope that things will work out for the best, even though we may not know what that will look like.
M36 XH34 M-5 T7 4/11 H confused 5/11 ILYB 6/11 OW discovered 7/11 I move out, OW over 5/12-OW2,done->new EA, but H wont file 9/12 H "best bf ever" to EA/OW3 3/13 H/OW break up H files 4/13 D 6/18/13
Our H's have issues that have nothing to do with us. These issues apparently have been there a long time.
I think that we were meant to be married to our H's, because not just anyone could be with them on this journey and survive. And... We were meant to go on our own journey.
I feel like I'm light years ahead of H too. Maybe someday he'll catch up.
I have to be honest, I hope he does.
Nothing is for certain in the future except that we will be okay.
I did like your quote Raine. I know a lot of fine individuals that have A LOT of good karma coming their way
And for the twinkle twat ho's? My new quote... "Karma's a b!tch."
Just sayin'
Bomb January 2012 - doesn't feel the same about me
~ "There is nothing love cannot face; there is no limit to its faith, hope, and endurance."
It's that battle between my heart and mind, and that's difficult to manage when my heart and mind start changing opinions. What the world says, verses what MLC is, verse my feelings for him, verses my buried pain, vs the thought of dumping it all and running away to a new place and a new existence far, far away. Hiring a nanny, working remotely from a beach, traveling the world. Maybe I will someday. ^^