~need advice with going dark~

[Negril72]

wow... ok I am going to attempt to answer all of that..

First you are right.. I was posting on Jp's thread.. and I did respond to you on there already but from now on I will stick to this thread.

I am assuming that it is MLC... and there is no way I can prove it is.. but because of her actions.. her behavior from the person she has always been to the person she is now I would have to say it is... her morals and values have been tossed out the window.

This sounds very judgemental. ^^^ and if I were you, I'd quickly see how it serves NO purpose for you to think like this or ever say it out loud. However if her behavior is truly out of character, all the better and maybe it IS an MLC of sorts. But that does not give you a blank check to blame her and not get out the mirror. I think the time spent on wondering if it's MLC is wasted IF it keeps you off track and Not working on you. B/C whether she's a WAW or an MLCer, imo, your course of action is the same.

= GAL & detach and work on the flaws in you that you believe need some work.



I am working very hard on detaching.. it is extremely hard.... by far the hardest thing I have ever done and goes against what my heart wants to feel....



Our friends have all said they can't believe she is doing all of the things she use to think were wrong and bad for a relationship.

Don't discuss this with friends anymore. Do you want to keep the road home, paved and smooth? Or make it harder for her to come home than it already would be? The more you challenge her choices, the more she'll defend them, instead of examining them.

AND the more you involve others, the worse. They'll tell YOU to drop her b/c they don't want to hear you complain anymore AND OR b/c they want you out of pain. Neither of which helps you> AND she'll think you are trying to backstab her and gain allies, which will NOT make her more likely to come home AND may even begin a tit for tat war with her...all bad things.


Yes again it was one of those lessons I learnt too late.... had I known about this site early on there are about a 100 things I would have done different.... all I saw was my wife cheating.. so of course I had to scream it from the roof tops like some kind of moron...instead of taking a second to look at the situation and what was going on... but I am sure my reaction from her actions is a very common one...



I do believe that she loved me very much at one time.. and still does deep down.

This^^^ is great news for you to hold onto when the nights get dark.


Yes I have a good job now.. but for a period of our relationship I didn't.. she was supporting me and was happy to do so.

1) sorry but I don't recall you ever mentioning that before. Or I didn't see it. TO hear you tell it, she lived off you...

2) "she was happy to do so". Did she SAY that and mean it? How long did this go on for?


She did it for me for almost 2 yrs.. we were going thru something with my ex wife... who I had my D with.. we were young and it didn't last long.. but she is a mean X and not a very good mother... so we had been fighting for custody pretty much the whole time me and my second W have been together.. (wow that sounds so jerry springer... but it's really not.. we are very normal suburb people.. lol)




We always had a very high respect for each other like that and would do anything to make the other one happy.

"There are layers of other emotions that are fogging that for her now. I don't know enough to tell you if it's anger or resentment or a low self esteem (or all those which are often combined)"

I believe that it's a combination of all those things. For the past year she has been talking about feeling old and ugly..


Why? And how did YOU respond to her insecurities?

[color:#3333FF][color:#3366FF]I have always been very loving and supportive of my W and the way she looks which is very attractive.. she is very beautiful woman and I was lucky to have her... she just didn't see it.... it's like it didn't matter what I said to her.. every time I gave her a compliment she would say that it was nice to hear.. but I would say it no matter what she looked like... in a nice dress or frumpy in pj's... but that's I seen her... always beautiful to me... [/color]




Ever think that a "young loser" might make her feel very attractive? Like HE would never leave her. Maybe he validates exactly what she hoped was true but feared was false? IE that she was still beautiful... I think there is something here^^
[/color]


I think there is as well... she needed to hear it from someone else.... it didn't matter what I had said to her.. she needed to know someone else found her attractive and sexy.. not the person that has been saying it for the past 9 yrs..



She has resentment me for my daughter coming to live with us.


Wow...This^^^ is NOT a small thing. Did she agree to it, and why is your d living w/you? I don't mean to say she should not, but why?

And how old is she? Is your d easy on your w, or hard on her? Does she blame your w for everything? And How'd I miss this before? Did you tell us somewhere on another thread?

And if you had not mentioned this before, that is also very telling. You must dig deeper if you want to save your m. All this time you acted as if all was GREAT until she went nuts. Not so... DIG DEEPER ASAP...


[color:#3333FF]my D is 15..... her D is 14.... and she was very much in approval of her coming to live with us.... always has been for 9yrs... never once saying anything different... always stood her ground and believed that my D would have a much better life with us.... then once she came to live with us it was great for about two months.. then she started to use her as a scapegoat for a reason to leave... changed that quick.... timing goes along with the phone records of her txting the OM more and more... my D got most of the venom and anger and blame for her leaving in the beginning.. which wasn't fair... because after the fact it was because she had found this younger guy..... who made her feel young and alive and that's why she was leaving.. but like most MLC they grab at anything to validate their reasons for leaving....


[/color]
one day while she was spewing her anger towards me she told me she was happy with her life the way it was and didn't want it to change. But all the years leading up to my daughter coming to live with us she was first in line to support this and make it happen for us to all be a family.

Somehow it did not pan out the way she envisioned, did it? How did you handle your w's concerns about your d? Be honest...it's not an easy position to be in, I get that. But did you really hear her out or did you want her to stop?
[color:#990000]
I have 17 nieces (seriously) and 2 d's. 3 or 4 of these young women are hard to handle and ONE needs to be in jail or a psych ward, I swear. I have no idea how my brother and his wife deal with her...SOME teens can be very very trying. Period.
[/color]

my daughter is actually pretty good... no major problems other than trying to socialize in a new school...her daughter is a barbie type...... my daughter is about 10 lbs over weight... very different people... but I lived and raised her daughter for 9 yrs.......... when things started to go bad and she was sensing that she was being blamed she offered to move out to my moms for a few months until things got better ... but my W said no... that she was leaving regardless what my D was going to do........at that time according to the phone records and her staying out all the time the OM was in full force..... so there was no stopping it at that time...



I would have to say the biggest change with me over the past year was that I had been working too much... and because of it I haven't been near has happy and cheerful like I normally would be. That's not to say I coming home every night yelling and screaming and kicking the dog... nothing like that. If anything I was more quiet..... exhausted. But we had talked many times about me working so much and she knew the reasons why I was being different.

Well no offense, but so what if she knew the reasons? I mean it sounds as if you are justifying neglecting her and "being different" b/c, um, you worked hard. Also sounds as if you had no intention of changing that or improving it so she'd just have to deal...


no not justifying it at all... she wasn't working and was going to school full time... I was trying to pay for a new house.. both newer cars... both harley's....and a good life style... not rich and famous.. but shopping.. name brand stuff.... so we knew that me working a lot of hours had to happen.... that's what I meant about us talking about it.. I wasn't trying to ignore the problem or me working to much of make an excuse for it... I meant we were in agreement with it..


We would still go out and do stuff every weekend.. dinner.. shopping.. hanging with friends. .
I was never the perfect husband.. nor was she the perfect wife. But we were better than most. We talked all the time.. sit in the hot tub nightly and talk for hours..

hopefully she will miss that^^^ unless it's tainted by later memories...so you'll have to show her that you are still that same hot tub good guy.


ya I think the hot tub has been tainted.... her and the other man was in the house for almost a month before I bought her out of the house and moved in.. his car was here many nights.. so I am sure the hot tub has a whole different meaning to her now...





I am starting to wonder if I was as good of a listener as I should have been... because obviously I was missing something that she was trying to tell me.

So one I would say I need to listen more.. stop always trying to be right or correct her.

This^^ is not a small trait. It means she felt critisized...b/c she was, and the need to correct is like a disease imo. It's SO NOT loving and if you think you mean well, it does not matter. IT does not feel loving to the recipient.


I need to stop trying to be a fixer all the time. I have to separate my need to love and protect her... and just be there when she needs me to be instead of always trying to make things perfect for her.

Okay STOP...the "need to fix" can be a nice little flaw to have and many men "own" up to it. BUT it can also masquerade as something else.

Sometimes when a man tries to "fix his w's problem"

this is what she hears:

"W, I just told you how to fix that. So stop talking about it now, it's fixed".
and let's face it, SOMETIMES what he is really saying is, "can you shut up about it now. What's left to say?"

If your w wants to vent, she wants YOU TO LISTEN...so learn to STHU and do that. Listen to her. Let her be heard.


I realize now how much pressure this was causing her.. too much love .. sounds like it would be a good thing but it's not.

I don't see it as "too much love". You'll have to dig a lot deeper. Sorry for the 2 x 4 but that is not the problem. I'm positive of that and I doubt I've ever said that before. But there is no such thing as too much love, assuming we are using healthy terms here.






I need to learn to relax more and enjoy life... to find my own happiness... I was living in the motto" happy wife... happy life"

THAT ^^is pressure on HER TO MAKE YOU HAPPY. Not so loving...eh?


no it's not so loving... it is pressure and I see it now... but would have never seen it before... she felt huge pressure to keep me happy meant she had to pretend to be happy even if she wasn't... but I didn't know that... was a circle that constantly needed to be feed by her.....



I use to laugh and giggle... be more a simple man.. stuff never really got me down regardless of what it was.. but I do know lately I was letting the stress of life keep me from being the happy go lucky guy I use to be.
I know that my W has said many times that is what she loved about me the most.

DING! DING!! ALARMS CLANGING!! (clap clap clap)

She wants the happy fun loving relaxed FUN MAN she fell in love with...let's get him back

That includes the fake it til you make it too. Gimmicky yes, But it works!
.

after reading all of what you wrote it does make me look more at myself. seeing changes I need to make. As for her noticing them? I can't see how she can when we don't even talk or see each other. At least for now we aren't. It's also hard to make changes for her when I am not 100% sure I am making the ones that bugged her the most.


do not make changes FOR HER. Make them for YOU to be a better man. Be the best MAN YOU CAN BE and only you know, by digging deeper, what truly needs the most work.

And she will see you or hear of you in time. It happens. Plus I've had 2 family members divorce and later remarry their exes. But since you are not doing these changes to get her back, but b/c you want to be the best man you can be, it's not crucial that she see them soon.

The sooner she sees them the less likely she'll believe them b/c you have not changed yet FOR YOU or for long enough.

consistent change + sufficient time = change she can believe in.



it's not like she sat down and listed a bunch of stuff when she said she wanted to leave.. she was saying that this was for her happiness.. that she had to go out and do it on her own. she needed space to see who she was.

The problems or changes that needed to be fixed could have easily been fixed if we stayed together. Why didn't you fix them then?



I wanted to fix them..I suggested MC.... begged... but by the time I had seen them the OM drug had taken over and she was already out the door... then my first reactions drove her into the arms of another man even faster.... live and learn..... we never ever stop learning...



But she decided to have an affair and run away. why do they feel they need to do this rather than work on the marriage?

B/c it's easier AND b/c they don't believe you will change for real.

I am still in FEAR of letting go of her... even though she has let go of me...... that's the next step I need to get over.

Never confuse letting go with giving up. They are not the same things.

I will say this... you are really kicking my butt about this.... ... but it is really helping me look back on my relationship and my part in all of this.... I whole heartedly believe that it's MLC... but I also believe that I had a part in it.. could I have stop it... no.... but could I have made it less of a bomb... ya .. now I think I could have...