WENT TO COUNSELING, BIG MISTAKE. MAJOR SETBACK YESTERDAY!!! Wife and I went to a family counselor last night. I was already a little leary because I figured that it would turn into a husband bashing session. What an understatement. My wife got their before me and I could tell that she did not want to be there. That set the tone for everything else. The therapist asked why we were there and I told him because we were having marital problems and that she had filed for divorce. The session began with the counselor explaining that my insurance does not cover marital counseling only family and/or personal problems such depression, abuse, etc. But he could talk to me if one of us had a problem, was sad, suicidal, depressed, yada, yada, yada. I told him that yeah, I am depressed because my wife wants a divorce. I then told him that she was willing to give me time to work things out. My wife then went off. She made it very clear that she still wanted a divorce but that she was just giving me the time that I asked for. She then began to tell him everything that I ever did wrong in this marriage. Some of it real, some exaggerated, some of it I have no idea what she was talking about. This went on for about 5-10 minutes with no comments from me. When it was all said and done we all decided that I would come back on my own. She stated that she did not need to come and was fine with how everything was.
After leaving the therapist I asked her to go and get something to eat, she agreed. I then asked her if she still was going to give me the 6 months to see if things could be improved. She said that she still planned to do that but just wanted to make known that nothing had changed as far as her wanting a divorce. She then continued to express how the terrible way I had treated her over the years has led to her current feelings and disposition. And that she liked her new personality and attitude. This barrage continued on throughout the meal. It got a little heated and we both got a little aggrevated but I was able to end things on a fairly positive note. I can clearly see now that I must not get into conversations about the past. That is a fight that I simply can't win. The hard part is trying to get her not to go down that road everytime we talk.
Once we got home things were a little better. The kids were horsing around and chasing each other. We both kind of joined in and had a good laugh. We then began to talk about the upcoming family trip to the autism conference. The night ended somewhat on a pleasant note. But I will not continue any counseling with her anytime soon. This was the worst day of a good week.
Me-47 WAW-42 D-16 S-14 M-22 yrs T-19 yrs ILYBNILWY-3 years ago. Full Story and original posts: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...066#Post1781066
That's why we often suggest to not see a C until your spouse actually wants to work on the M. Continue to see the C for you and get your emotions in check.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
Sorry to hear about your setback. I guess she needs more time before going to counseling. Just brush yourself off and get back to DB'ing!
Make the most of the family trip to the Autism conference. We are lucky here in Canada that we have a fully funded Autism center in the city we live in so we don't have to travel much. My boy is getting 20 hours a week of behavior interventionist therapy till he is 6.
Raising an autistic kid in a split home will be a challenge. Hopefully it will never get to that point.
Time, patients, and consistent changes!
H 37 WAW 32 S 4 (Autistic) S 2 Together 11 years Married 6 Bombshell Dec 1 2012 House sold, flying solo June 1 2013.
Wife and I went to a family counselor last night. I was already a little leary because I figured that it would turn into a husband bashing session.
Well what's done is done, but if you've read many threads here you should have known that MC is a bad idea with a WAS. The WAS is 100% done with the marriage, there is NOTHING you or a C can say to them to change their mind. The ONLY thing that MIGHT work is DB'ing- giving them time and space, removing all pressure and doing 180's on your faults. The WAS will go into counseling simply to be validated in their belief that breaking up is the best thing to do, and 99% of MC's will say that at some point because they're trained to facilitate divorces, not to save marriages at all costs. And when they do say it, the WAS suddenly perks up and is in full agreement with this "brilliant" C. MC is a form of applying pressure to the WAS and they do not like/ want/ need pressure. It drives them farther away.
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I then told him that she was willing to give me time to work things out. My wife then went off. She made it very clear that she still wanted a divorce but that she was just giving me the time that I asked for.
Listen to her! She DID NOT give you 6 months to save the M. She gave you 6 months to get your act together. You've got to quit pressuring her with stuff like that! Take the 6 months to properly DB, and proper DB'ing means NO PRESSURE! That means no MC, no R, M or D talks, no talk about the future, no dates, etc. etc.
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She then began to tell him everything that I ever did wrong in this marriage. Some of it real, some exaggerated, some of it I have no idea what she was talking about.
They are all real to her. I hope you took notes and if not, then get out a pencil right now and write down everything you can remember. Do 180's on them all, even if you don't think it's legit. Because to her, it is legit. I'm not hearing you describe any validation in your conversations with her, so let me offer some examples of validation you should be employing:
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She said that she still planned to do that but just wanted to make known that nothing had changed as far as her wanting a divorce.
"I understand why you feel this way. Thank you for giving me this time, I am using it to improve myself regardless of what happens between us. Ultimately I just want you to be happy, and if leaving is what will make you happy then I support your decision to go. But until then I will make the most of the time you give me."
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She then continued to express how the terrible way I had treated her over the years has led to her current feelings and disposition.
"I hear you saying that I treated you poorly, that must have made you feel angry and frustrated. Is that how you felt?"
"Definitely frustrated, not really angry though."
"I can understand why you would be frustrated with that kind of treatment. I clearly did a poor job of communicating with you and understanding your feelings, I am sorry you felt that way and am committed to making sure it doesn't happen again. I am learning new communication skills and trying to emply them, but can use your feedback as we progress through this."
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This barrage continued on throughout the meal.
Don't look at it as a "barrage". Look at it as her opening up to you. Your responses are critical. Validate validate validate!!!
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I can clearly see now that I must not get into conversations about the past. That is a fight that I simply can't win. The hard part is trying to get her not to go down that road everytime we talk.
Can't win? Commit this little bit of DB forum advice to memory- do you want to be right or do you want to be happily married? It's not about winning, or being right. It's about LISTENING!!!! I'm going to venture a guess that you (like most of us guys) were a terrible listener during your M. Whenever your W tried to communicate you saw it as nagging, so you shut down, left the room, quit listening, turned the TV up louder, etc. If so, then what you describe is "more of the same" behavior!!! You WANT her to talk to you, you WANT her to air her grievances, and she WANTS you to listen. She wants you to be the best listener ever- making eye contact, nodding, hanging on every word, asking questions about her comments, asking how it made her feel, and validating her feelings. Because that would be a 180, right? And it would be a big one. It would get her attention.
"I am learning new communication skills and trying to emply employ them, but can use your feedback as we progress through this"
Sorry, misspelled "employ" in that sentence.
And BTW, I was the prototypical "guy" listener to my wife. I never validated her at all, and I shut down whenever she "nagged" me (I see now she wasn't nagging, she was trying to communicate). I've employed validation techniques with her for months now and it has dramatically improved our communications. She said she used to feel like she was walking on eggshells all the time and now she feels "relaxed" around me. It is NOT easy at first. But once you start doing it and see how much things improve, then you realize how important it is and it gets easier.
Wolverine, I know that the session did not go the way you are hoped.. okay maybe it was a disaster...
.. but growth does happen in our mistakes.
Even if not portrayed the most pleasant of ways, I'm sure your W gave you a ton information about what bothers her in the M...
.. That means there is stuff for you to work on. And she's giving you time to work on it (even if telling herself different)
That my friend.. is a WIN!
Because its not just about following Sandi's rules (although they ARE crucial) it's about addressing your W's issues, validating, and working to change them.
So tell us - what were the complaints said?
From there you can start creating some goals.
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
First, I want to say thanks for all of the great info. You all are right. I have to continue to get better at listening. The therapist said as much last night. I always thought that I was a good listener but I have always had a hard time "hearing" my wife. Her style of communication has been difficult for me. I think that I have gotten better but I need to get much better. And you all are right. I have to validate her more.
Her complaints were: 1. I did'nt help enough with our autistic son. 2. I spent too much time with my friends. 3. I was more concerned with maintaining a good family image than taking care of family needs.
But you all are right. I will work harder to do a 180 in this area.
Me-47 WAW-42 D-16 S-14 M-22 yrs T-19 yrs ILYBNILWY-3 years ago. Full Story and original posts: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...066#Post1781066
Can't believe the therapist discussed insurance issues during the session? Not good practice. Usually this is done on a preliminary phone interview.
And you can't take all of the blame for the problems in the M. Accept what you do or did wrong and focus on that. I bet your W made mistakes too, right? Hard to see right now. But she like u are not perfect. My belief is that the longer an LBS keeps their WAS on a pedestal the longer it takes for the LBS to change, or to live again. It's hard to make changes when your basic needs aren't met (Maslow).
M 53 D 20 Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24 Together 26 yrs Married 16 W Filed for D 7/21/11 Served 9/6/11 D final 8/28/12
“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”
Well, I think that I will still keep my original goals. But the one good thing from this therapist fiasco is that it will help me to define/refine my goals more clearly. I can see that I need to do a 180 and make validation one of my goals for better communication. When she tells me how she feels or expresses her opinions on our marriage or about me I always want to tell my side of the story. I need to listen more and validate her feelings, even if I do not agree with them. Her opinions about my feelings or thoughts are often not correct but they are still her feelings and I need to validate them. Plus, this will also avoid potential fights.
Also, I have to not move to fast or try to rush our relationship. When we are doing something together or as a family and it is going very well I have to make sure that I do not go to fast, trying to re-establish the relationship in one day. I have to avoid pursuing in those situations, go with the flow and take small baby steps.
Now here is my next dilema. Tomorrow is our 22 anniversary. What do I do? Over the last few years I would just give her a card since she would not accept any gifts. Last year I found the card in the garbage unopened. This year we are speaking and doing things together. We have planned a family trip together and talk more. But I don't want to over do anything and push her away. I figured that I would still give her a card. What do you all think?
Me-47 WAW-42 D-16 S-14 M-22 yrs T-19 yrs ILYBNILWY-3 years ago. Full Story and original posts: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...066#Post1781066
