25yearsmlc

[25yearsmlc]

So tonight d23 and h had a spiff. It was a short lived "fight" about something stupid but though h had a point originally, he blew it by escalating. D23 is the most sensitive of the kids and she went to her room. Our son then left the kitchen too and this was within 30 min of h's arrival home.

My question for h was, "how do you want the rest of the evening to go?" And then "what are you going to do to help that happen?"

He & I role modelled a bit before he approached her room (how it made him FEEL when she disagreed, not why she was wrong, etc. AND I suggested they do this in private, NOT with s25 as audience member/playing big brother defender...

and 20 min later all was calmer. NOT "all better", but better. Evening turned out reasonably good.

The kids and I will meet with a facilitator T Monday am without h. I hope we can lay some groundwork. Get to know/trust the T (I do but the kids don't know him from Adam)

When the kids understand that no one, least of all ME, expects 1- 2 sessions to hash all things out, make us the Waltons, but that these are merely to give us a framework for further discussion AND conflict resolution, with boundaries we all buy into, I hope/believe they'll be more open.

I fear a pile on for h -the kids are not fully aware of his experiences overseas either. They avoid asking. Why? Good question. Probably resentment of his time away from THEM. But ironically it's s25 who SEEMS to resent the time away the most. IRonic b/c h was there for Son's high school years. H missed half d23's high school and is NOW about to miss half of d15s though he works a few hours away, not a hemisphere...

Maybe s25 feels guilt about that (I know he feels some b/c he said that) and so now it seems s25 almost denies ANY good times with h. That's BS. They were very close for years...in time I hope s25 recalls that better and more clearly.

As for the combat issues or injuries h treated while deployed, the things he wa, He may not share that with them anyhow.

Some of it need NOT be shared btw. The tortured children and sex slaves who have "pelvic inflammatory disease" as children, isn't something they must know, is it?
I think HIS processing that part is HIS to own and share when he is ready, I hope we'll all help him out. I can only say I know I Will.

my son said, "Mom, what's this T about? What's in it for US? WE don't care about what HE wants or WHY he's gone anymore..."

which i know is not true or S25 would not comment to me so often. Even if it were true, he cares about his sisters and me.

I just want to pass on SOME conflict resolution skills and PRAY to plant the seeds of forgiveness...and yes that will include H's need to apologize. That and the framework for learning conflict resolution skills which allow all to express their feelings in a safe place (no escalation and no grudges later, for instance) is the other key goal. I feel like a 3rd party to start us off with, is a good idea.
THOUGHTS?

I know Timing matters. H, A guy who just saw some gross things in an Afghan/Kuwaiti hospital might not feel like hearing about his past failures as a h/father, that in his eyes, happened years ago.

But I also have to hope he stops repeating behaviors (being gone for Army duty) which THEY see as more of the same (MLC almost, and it's not). To THEM it's not "long ago". To them it's "dad's gone AGAIN."

B/C d15 is still young and they could still all grow towards each other.

I wasn't crazy about my oldest brother as a teenager, but we're closer now.

And I became much closer to my alcoholic dad after he got sober, when I was 29. I truly did forgive him.

Too bad he died 3 years later....still glad for those 3 years, and the good years when I was a little girl and moments along the way b/c not all was shame and anger...
SO I know that it's never really too late...right?

anyhow, thought I'd give that update.

[SM34]

I just came across this thread and had no idea it existed until now! Firstly, before I write my "part" I would like to personally thank 25 for ALL the help she has given me.

I have said this before multiple times, but I will say it again! I look forward to seeing your responses to my posts. when I see that signature RED font, I salivate at the information that might be contained in it. You are truely a wise person, and an asset to the community.

I saw the comments from people on how I may cause them some extreme frustration. I am sorry about that! I just want to focus on things that will improve my sitch, perhaps too much. I tend to put "better myself" as second place, and I am trying my best to move past that.

But I still think sometimes people have a habit of labeling your marriage as something much MUCH worse than it really was. When we come here, hurting and confused, we are asked to "spill the beans" on what issues our spouse gave us for wanting to leave. We oblige by providing a mammoth list of everything they ever complained about, and some they never complained about even.

But as the journey goes on, at least for me, I found that the more I read about self growth etc.. the more I realized it was actually W's habits and personality that was contributing more to our sitch than my issues.

The problem I found was that when the LBS suggetsts this on the forum, there is a barrage of "Well you told us all of these problems"... and when I say the DB coach thinks my W was simply pursued at a bad time for us, the responses are "has your DB coach read your posts? You told us all the problems she had with you". But those lists we all compile are often times when we are asked or told (and eventually convinced) that our marriage must have had severe problems if our spouse is leaving. So I think sometimes we are digging deep, TOO deep really. Our WAS did not actually dig as deep as that for reasons, they sometimes just want to leave, just because. Doesn't mean your marriage could not have been better...any marriage can be better...but sometimes people do things just because it makes sense to them at the time, and the reasons are not always clear or even logical.

My DB coach definitely said the use light touch. She even said if light touch keeps showing positives, we will move to heavier touch, more private touch. your wife wants to be pursued! We don't know what she meant by "You never faught for our marriage" but coupled with the lack of sexual pursual in our sitch, there is a good chance she meant you didn't try to pursue me when I told you about OM and he was pursuing me like something he WANTED.

I have no issues understanding plain English, and both myself and my DB coach are speaking plain English. I need help sometimes deciphering the garbage my wife says, becuase it is Affair talk and script, but there is no ambiguity in the words spoken to me by my DB coach.

But when a LBS newbie like me says that, we are told we are cherry picking. Even my DB coach warned me that this would happen. She said have them help you in better yourself, even have them help you understand what people in Affairs act the way they do. Look to them for comfort in knowing you are not the only one dealing with this. Listen to them when they tell you to ignore the negatives your Wife says or does. But let me do take care of the game play. When I ASKED if you guys could help me in the way my DB coach asked, I was told that I cannot pick and choose the help I get. It was either help with everything or nothing.

Somehow I think I am on moderation again now. I posted on my thread and I got a moderation message. So not sure how long it will take for this post to actually be available on here.

I want to re-iterate that I am not mad at people on here. You all offer an INVALUABLE service to those who come here hurt and confused. The comraderie gets us through another day of our living hell. But PLEASE, I have said this before....just try to be more understanding of the hurt involved. Try to remind people that it is not 100% their fault (because I like many others lost alot of sleep as a result of the guilt that was harvested by folks on this board).

And occasionally we need people like to just tell us your spouse is confused and isn't thinking straight, and that especially when affair chemistry is involved, they are not themselves right now. Sandi does an AWESOME point of this in EVERY post I have read. She cautions over and over that your affair driven spouse is sick, not able to make rational decisions, etc. GH31 also was instrmental in getting me to realize that sometimes my W will do crazy things, and say hurtful comments, because she is on a mind f%ck right now. It doesn't mean we shouldn't also be reminded of GaLing and 180s and all the other parts of DB, but I feel these issues should be addressed more than they are on this board.

Thank you all for the help you have given me. Sorry to cause a big debate on the role of vets on the board. I think you are all doing a fabulous job, but I feel if you went back and read some of your older posts from 2009 and 2010, you will see what I mean. Those posts are full of reassurances that your spouse is DAMAGED when compared to the modern post which focuses almost entirely on the short comings of the LBS.

I balanced approach might be more effective with most newbies, at least I know it would be with me. I am willing and wanting to better myself, but I don't want to take all the blame for my Wife affair, because it simply was NOT all my fault.

[25yearsmlc]

SM

I will post to you about your issues on your thread when I get a chance.

And no, I don't read my old posts. Nor will I again.

I usually get angry at myself all over again b/c I whined too much, was spinning my wheels too much, wasting so much time thinking about my H's planning/thinking/doing/feeling,

instead of GAL and making forward movement of my own, and creating a new better life for me and my children.

I get angry all over again at myself for being stuck too long,

OR mad all over again at my h for his actions then. It's a setback.

I think the person who put "From this day forward" into our marriage vows was onto something brilliant.


So I go from this day forward.

[25yearsmlc]

SM

you either misunderstand what I wrote back then, or you ARE indeed cherry picking. You definitely misquote me a lot.

Also I do NOT know why you are on moderation.

I do know your last thread is too long. (And, imo your last post is pretty graphic in parts.) Not sure if that's relevant to it.

[25yearsmlc]

I'm heading to the counselor's tomorrow with the kids. I'ill listen to them and leave them with counselor to speak on their own.

I have a lot of confidence in the counselor, a male PhD. I know that may sound like a silly thing to note but his being male will help for a few reasons, I THINK...and the PhD gives him credibility to my h and to my son, and the fact is that after meeting maybe 5 various counselor's over the years, this is only the 2nd male and he's a man's man. H likes him, and that made a huge difference to our benefitting.

Will let you know. Adinva if you're out there, I'm still writing a reply to you but wish we connected in the alt unverse. ALSO, if you (or anyone else) have questions for me to have the kids ask the c, let me know.

The plan is later to meet together and figure out what THEY need from their dad before they approach him. Then we can all meet as a family. This might seem weird b/c h isn't part of it yet but for now, I really want the kids to feel safe but also to know that some things, are beyond their input. They do not get to make our financial choices or come between us...

but I think h owes them an apology and some explanations.

And the 15 y/o...OMG that girl can definitely fit the stereotype of a teenager with a biting wit...sometimes more witty than biting but sometimes more biting than anything...and she does need to tone the 'tude down.

For some reason I feel pretty hopeful. Then again, as much as this bothers me -tonight, I feel centered and at peace with who I am as a mother and wife. And while their relationships can affect me, b/c of the atmosphere, that does not mean they'll get inside my core.

I'm going to be alright no matter what happens. Yes it Sure would be nice if we could have a more harmonious family life. But they all have to want that. And I do not control what they want.

I'm not sure all the kids do want that. S26 seems to want to punish h more. (I'm mind reading, yes. But hey, that's my take on it). D24 wants harmony, and would do the work to get it (and in some ways she was the most affected at the time) and d15 is probably on the fence but is very skeptical.

Cross your fingers!

[keep_going]

25 -

We will keep our fingers crossed, but like you, I am confident that things will work out and everyone will benefit from meeting with the C and having that third party help you all navigate the complexities of the current family dynamics.

My thoughts are with with, I send you all good vibes and I look forward to hearing nothing but good news.

(((((((((25))))))))))

PS - And yes, you will be alright no matter what - because you are an amazing woman, wife and mother!

[Valeska19]

FWIW - I don't believe your S26 is punishing your H.

I think he sees the pain caused by your H to D23 &D15.. and even YOU.

And I think there is a feeling that he needs to protect you.

You've raised him well.. both you and H.... trust in that NOW.

(((( ))))

[adinva]

Thinking of you and your family. I think you all are going to be better than ever, though it may take some time. You're in the middle of a reshuffling of relationships that would be bound to happen anyway as they transition from relating to their dad as his kid to relating to him as an adult. They're going to judge and question his choices in the process of figuring out who they are.

I think it is so cool that you and H work so openly on problems and have such an attitude of strength in seeking help from others. It's such a good model for your kids, no matter what the relationships end up as, because they can see how you TRY. They can see what the tools look like. They're not going to be afraid to use them.

You mention your D's biting wit often enough that it seems to bother you more than the typical parental eye-rolling. You might try setting boundaries that make it more desirable for her to restrain her mouthiness. I'm no pro at that, but I think if you had some action you'd take, such as reducing her curfew 10 minutes every time you think she crossed the line... I'm sure you've already been doing something like that. I need to listen to my own advice too, because S12 can really work on my last nerve.

You're being a really great mom to work so hard at these relationships, I hope all goes well with the C!

[25yearsmlc]

thanks...yikes...makes me happy to read!!

Okay so here's a story that Adinva reminded me of when she/you said that pain is something you need/want to get through.& NOT avoid...


You reminded me of someone there. A great woman named Carol. Carol is the woman with the best attitude towards life of anyone I know. (& I met her at the Essential Experience workshop, btw).

The day Carol turned 16, her parents gave her a huge catered "Sweet 16" birthday party, with a band and all. Tons of people. Carol's brother was close to her and he was to drive down from college for the big party.

On the way to it, he got into a car accident and was killed. The parents were notified during the big party & Carol thought the police were there to quiet the party down.

The parents were bereft but did not know what to do. Rather than announcing the death of their only son to the party, or ending their daughter's big night, they carried on for 2 hours until the guests had left, only to finally tell Carol why her brother had not arrived....

Years passed, and Carol married a really nice guy. They had a cute little son, who got Juvenile diabetes at age 5. They said "it's a disease that is manageable...we just have to learn how to manage it and then teach him."

Then they had a baby girl. At age 3 months she got a cold that went to her lungs and she could not shake it. Damage was done to her lungs and eventually she was put on life support. She was not going to live.

The doctors said their daughter could not live long once disconnected to the machine. They withdrew life support and Carol held her baby girl in her arms. She suddenly felt the urge to nurse her baby as it "seemed like the natural thing to do". So she took off her shirt & bra, not caring who saw what. The baby nursed vigorously for awhile, then more slowly and then, quietly, and gently she passed away into the night, while in her mother's arms.

I was pregnant when I saw Carol after her d's death. I eventually shared with her that her loss terrified me. I said I felt that it would not be a survivable event for me, but for the son we also had.

I said, "I'd feel as if life was a beautiful painting and now someone threw a big glass of red wine on it and it's ruined forever."

Carol said "No my life isn't ruined. I've had pain in it.

But life is more like a tapestry. If you get close up to it you can see the flaws and the textures and there IS pain...but if you stand back and look at the whole thing, the textures and flaws add to it. Pain is just a part of my life but my life is still very beautiful. I learned to get through the pain and I am in touch with how much love & laughter and art & music there is in my life. I feel blessed & lucky."

Carol meant every word.

I'll always recall that conversation nearly verbatim.

Adinva, KG, Val, you guys remind me of this^^...thank you!

[needgrace]

hi 25,

i love what you are doing for your family (it is brilliant!) by going to the counselor and also love that you realize the limits of what you can control. that is such a display of balance (not an easy task in any meaningful situation in our lives and especially with kids).. to set the stage but realize that ultimately it is up to the "actors."

beyond how they feel about H, they may uncover some awareness of how they think and feel about themselves related to that time period and their relationships with you and H.

Thank you for sharing this, 25.