Role model - W suggested James Dean maybe 5 years ago. Other suggestions?
Who do YOU suggest as a role model?
You said your W didn't like you talking to your parents. She doesn't like how you talk with them. She doesn't like it b/c you never stood up to tell off your father. Do you see manipulation on her part?
You tried to go shopping for some new shirts, and she grilled you and than TOLD you what to do and not do. Do you see this as controll?
You accidentally discover she's having a party at your home and has not said a word about it to you. You seemed to accept it without any realization of her lack of respect & honor to the man of the house, and said the party would be an opportunity to try talking to a few people.
It did not surprise me one bit when you revealed that you spend the time of the party back in the kitchen. Why are you not in the role of "host" instead of the dishwasher? What really got me was when you said that sometimes a few guests will walk back to the kitchen and then you had a chance to speak with them! There is nothing wrong in helping out in the kitchen, but not to the point that you're hidden away like an embarrassment.
Oh Luke! Can you not honestly see how wrong all of this is? Can you not see how you are filling the role of her puppet? It's worse b/c she degrades you. This is not what you need to do in order to strengthen your M!
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
The first part to setting boundaries is apparently the healthy and natural feelings of resentment one gets.
Yes, if I think that W could say "sure, get some shirts, and have a good time shopping", then her actions could be interpreted as control. She was not wrong though to say it might be better to first look at the (many, collected over 25 years) shirts I have. Rationalizing, I know, and Jedi mind trick.
But yes, she seldom freely encourages me to do what I want, and so yes, controls rather than lets me be me.
The party thing, though, is not like you make it out. We have big (30-60 people) parties that we prepare and host ourselves. The kitchen is always stuffed with people... and I am fine with being the cook and butler and host there. I really do feel more comfortable doing something than just talking, and so yes, do cook, bottle wash, serve wine, the helpful host making sure the guests have a good time.
It does seem imbalanced though - she could be out there more.
I think fear and not having dealt much with anger and keeping it at a distance, away from me, are what hold me back. Setting boundaries and asserting myself have been problems since college. An assertiveness boot camp would be wonderful.
Journaling: W left phone book on my desk after she used it today, something that always annoyed me, why not clean it up and leave my desk like you find it? I used to put it back, cleaning up after her, but instead put it on the ground between our offices, open, keeping it plainly visible and in the way. This passive aggressive maneuver got noticed.
Tomorrow I hope to trim one of our apple trees, again without asking, and that should get noticed too. On Friday the map is finally available and I will hang it up.
One awkward thing is what to say in the morning, when I see her again, after we have spent the night in separate beds. This morning I said "morning", cheerfully, and got an annoyed look for it.
D turns 15 tomorrow, and her public birthday party is Saturday.
Luke
M58, xW54 S22, D18 M 1984, D 2016 Living a new life.
"The party thing, though, is not like you make it out."
yes it is. She invited people to a party that she is having without telling you. AND worse, you automatically expect to cook, play host, etc. You're being treated worse than a butler. At least the Help know ahead of time when a party is going on.
STOP making excuses.
"I think fear and not having dealt much with anger and keeping it at a distance, away from me, are what hold me back."
Possibly. HOWEVER despite the reasoning, all you need to do is to DO SOMETHING to change this.
"Journaling: W left phone book on my desk after she used it today, something that always annoyed me, why not clean it up and leave my desk like you find it?"
Why don't you TELL her that?
"I used to put it back, cleaning up after her, but instead put it on the ground between our offices, open, keeping it plainly visible and in the way. This passive aggressive maneuver got noticed."
That is grade school behavior. Tell her quite plainly to put things back after she's done with it.
"Tomorrow I hope to trim one of our apple trees, again without asking, and that should get noticed too. On Friday the map is finally available and I will hang it up."
Good.
"One awkward thing is what to say in the morning, when I see her again, after we have spent the night in separate beds. This morning I said "morning", cheerfully, and got an annoyed look for it."
Nothing wrong with what you did. If she wants to be annoyed, that's up to her.
"D turns 15 tomorrow, and her public birthday party is Saturday. "
What did you get her? Do you and your W normally get the kids something together or separately?
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
Oh Luke, no, passive aggressive and childish phone book placement on the floor is not being assertive. It's quite destructive in a relationship. It's unattractive, and cowardly. It generates all kinds of angry and annoyed feelings in the recipient. She will not say - finally! Luke's acting like the man of the house! He's moving the phone book to the floor in front of my office! That is attractive to me.
Sorry, your efforts are good but this particular one is a detour. If you agree then go get it and think of a different way to set a boundary about your desk. One that involves using words, hopefully.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
I agree with Advina, passive aggression is not the path to assertiveness, it's the road to destruction. I commented before that I also think opening the door between your rooms and sleeping on her floor are also passive aggressive. You're seeing how much you can take from her while still avoiding conflict. You're testing her boundaries and that is annoying. If she leaves the phone book out on your desk tell her to put it away directly.
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Okay, the apple tree is pretty much clipped. It would have been more assertive to do this when she is here, defying her to her face as it were, but I did it now and am glad.
Yes, I knew when I put the phone book on the floor that it was passive aggressive and not the best solution. I hadn't realized how unattractive it was though - thanks adinva. The using words thing - confrontation - is the tough part.
The room door thing is no longer relevant, as I find I snore sometimes (it wakes me up). I'd rather not keep her awake by insisting on an open door, so that is off my goal list.
Also, on the human contact front, while I was clipping the apple tree, a 62 yr old, very fit, runner I often see came slowly walking by. We started talking and it turned out he had had an aortic aneurysm a few weeks ago. I invited him in (had never done this before) to a cup of coffee. It was chastening to hear how fragile, in spite of all the running, we are... His prognosis is good and he is lucky to be alive (only 25% survive this apparently) and may even be able to run again.
Briefly touched wife this morning - had the impression that she recoiled - but this needs to be retried -
Luke
M58, xW54 S22, D18 M 1984, D 2016 Living a new life.
Why do you even still sleep in separate rooms? I still suggest leaving the door open because EVENTUALLY you're going to have to come to the point of SOME kind of intimacy. Do you want to wait ANOTHER 9 years?
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
sorry could'nt resist. Am a big fan and he would make a perfect role model.