Gonna be different now, (butterfly in hurricane).

[Big Bruce]

Hello,
It takes time to register but I am getting your point.
When one is locked in the midst of adverse circumstances, it is difficult to see honestly what is going on all around.
Thank you to all for your patience and understanding, I gotta get through this ordeal somehow. Things are bad, whether they get worse is up to me.

I have minimized communication with W to the bare essentials as suggested here.
We only send emails every 2-3 days about the visits. (Well, she complained about his sleeves being wet, and my putting the diaper backwards, etc...)

Question 1 : W said she would see about the driving (probably ask her L what to do), and since she hasn't said anything yet -because I do the driving- should I bring it up? To make her understand it is not ok, and I am just waiting for her to say something?
In case she says she won't drive, can I say something like : "I'll pick S up, if you want him back, you come get him"?

Question 2 : Our marriage anniversary is coming up soon. What should I do? Card, nothing, flowers, letter, short email?
I know the stove is hot, and only time will make it cool down, but still..

Have a good evening y'all,
Bruce

[25yearsmlc]

Hello,
It takes time to register but I am getting your point.
When one is locked in the midst of adverse circumstances, it is difficult to see honestly what is going on all around.
Thank you to all for your patience and understanding, I gotta get through this ordeal somehow. Things are bad, whether they get worse is up to me.


Never forget that you control ONLY YOUR behavior...your reaction, your choices, etc.


I have minimized communication with W to the bare essentials as suggested here.
We only send emails every 2-3 days about the visits. (Well, she complained about his sleeves being wet, and my putting the diaper backwards, etc...)

do these comments warrant any response? I'd keep copies and give them to your L though, in case...

Question 1 : W said she would see about the driving (probably ask her L what to do), and since she hasn't said anything yet -because I do the driving- should I bring it up? To make her understand it is not ok, and I am just waiting for her to say something?
In case she says she won't drive, can I say something like : "I'll pick S up, if you want him back, you come get him"?

Go thru the lawyer for this. In the short run it'll cost you a bit more MAYBE, but if it gets through to her, then in the long run she'll cooperate more. And she'll know you are willing to spend a little money to have her keep her word.

Question 2 : Our marriage anniversary is coming up soon. What should I do? Card, nothing, flowers, letter, short email?

Debatable. The MOST you could do, IF anything, would be to send a card saying "it's still worth remembering" and include a photo of your son,

and or thank her for bringing him into the world with you. Nothing else shoud be said, NO "i love you" and nothing about the future.


I know the stove is hot, and only time will make it cool down, but still..

Have a good evening y'all,
Bruce

[25yearsmlc]

PS

Expect nothing from your wife on your anniversary. I'd expect zero contact that day, probably.

If somehow, something clearly warms, FROM HER, you could at most perhaps say,

"W, despite how bad things are now, I can't say I regret our marriage, b/c I look at this precious young man it produced. For this, I'll always be grateful."

Keep the focus ONLY ON HIM.

** ALSO read up on those medical issues he has. It's essential to decent parenting. Plus you may be asked about them. Be informed b/c you care.


Question 1 : W said she would see about the driving (probably ask her L what to do), and since she hasn't said anything yet -because I do the driving- should I bring it up? To make her understand it is not ok, and I am just waiting for her to say something?
In case she says she won't drive, can I say something like : "I'll pick S up, if you want him back, you come get him"?

This^^^ is not a mature response. (That's why YOU need your lawyer to speak for you). The idea that this remark would help you, or reflect well on you is crazy. The comment is intended to antagonize her, which is what you'd be doing with that type of remark to her. Yes, we know she SAID she'd drive one way...but
I can imagine the following reaction on HER end.

"Bruce ABDUCTED son. HE refused to return him!"

& Bruce, I can see HER BELIEVING IT! Because if WE know you've made more than one comment about fleeing to France to save money & future hassle, you can bet she is TERRIFIED OF YOU DOING IT...

Do you want to have that nightmare hassle just so you can make a snarky remark to her? THINK about how she'll react to your behavior/comments.

Don't keep disconnecting those factors.


As I see it, you have 3 goals for now and the near future

(& to me, the near future means at least > 6months) Please, Don't argue that.


1) SHOW that you accept your wife's decision to end the marriage (this is advice we ALL get. Not just you.)

You have resisted it so much and that's one of the reasons your w is colder to you than need be. She thinks she has to keep reminding you that she wants it to be over.

If You never give her a chance to examine her choices b/c all you do is argue against/ challenge those choices, then you force her to keep defending those choices & she'll keep on "reminding" you of the choice she made, with cold distant behavior that borders on, or is, rude.

Accepting her choice is also part of respecting her, btw. And it's part of getting you both to drop your guns.

ALSO

Believe that It's over...It's the only way she'll ever FEEL DONE enough to think about the results of her choices.

*** I'm not saying she'll regret the choice to leave. But she might re-think present day cooperation.***

And if there ever comes a time when you two can relax around each other, feel safe and not like there is an agenda, then a friendship might happen.
But that is NOT now or anytime soon. Right now you are legally at war.


2) Show that your son is your concern. NOT your primary concern; your ONLY concern.[/b] This is part of #1^^. It's mandatory for someone who wants over night visits with his son.


3) Do Not mention money or support to or in front of her. Do NOT whine about it. Do NOT complain about it. To put it bluntly, "man up & shut up".

That does not make you a doormat. If the amount really is too high, YOUR LAWYER can say that! You don't ever have to say a word to her about it. EVER!

do you get this^^^???

Two of her complaints were about your selfishness with your time and your money.

You need to counter those complaints and so far, you have done a poor job of it. So think hard before you ignore the advice freely given, in abundance, to you.

[HollyAnn]

Hello,
It takes time to register but I am getting your point.
When one is locked in the midst of adverse circumstances, it is difficult to see honestly what is going on all around.
Thank you to all for your patience and understanding, I gotta get through this ordeal somehow. Things are bad, whether they get worse is up to me.

I have minimized communication with W to the bare essentials as suggested here.
We only send emails every 2-3 days about the visits. (Well, she complained about his sleeves being wet, and my putting the diaper backwards, etc...)

Question 1 : W said she would see about the driving (probably ask her L what to do), and since she hasn't said anything yet -because I do the driving- should I bring it up? To make her understand it is not ok, and I am just waiting for her to say something?
In case she says she won't drive, can I say something like : "I'll pick S up, if you want him back, you come get him"?

Question 2 : Our marriage anniversary is coming up soon. What should I do? Card, nothing, flowers, letter, short email?
I know the stove is hot, and only time will make it cool down, but still..

Have a good evening y'all,
Bruce

Ignore the anniversary; that is pursuing.
Act happy and upbeat no matter what. It'll drive her bonkers.

[Big Bruce]

Thank you 25yearsmic, HollyAnn and others for your perspective,
Now that I have "calmed down" a little, I can breathe and act with more thoughtfulness than in the excitment that surrounds the court thing.

Of course I NEVER mentionned money being a problem to W. I complain and whine here, but it's the last thing I'd say to W.

In the same order of thought, I never complained about the cold, the flatness here, lack of activities, etc... on contrary, I praised her place in the beginning, saying it was a quiet, good place, where things were organized.

Now, I understand the concept of her needing this feeling that she "won", that she can leave and, in that way, express how tired and frustrated she was with the marriage, BEFORE she can begin to start seeing that "hey, Bruce is a good guy after all, maybe I have taken too rash a decision..." One has to feel strong before willing to concede anything.
--> Having said that, being "too" friendly in my emails is it counterproductive at this point? (I always wish her a good night, hope you had a good week-end, etc...)

I also understand that it will take time. 6 months or more.
The problem I have is that in June, coincidentally two things happen: the court order cease, which will rekindle the opposition sentiment, the fears and that obstination in her (if they diminish at all in the meantime, that is), and it will be the date where she can legally D without having to ask permissiom from anybody.

So my two questions are: how do I handle the coming three months into us 1.contacting each other normally again, 2.negotiating about extended visit times (possibly 50-50%) for after June and 3.not going to pre-trial which will set ablaze this time the negative con feelings? (besides it's cheaper, if the L bill is like the first one, all my savings aren't enough...) And second question, but it's included in the first almost, how to make her at least not D, she seems to be in such a hurry?

Any thoughts on this?
Merci encore,
Bruce

[25yearsmlc]

First, an "Adminstrative detail", Bruce--

You need to get a new thread soon or they'll lock this one up.

Secondly, you are repeating almost every question you asked above, with only slight changing of words. I literally just answered those questions.

You're either too emotional to take in the information or you don't like the answer...which I understand. But you must take in NEW data. It's clear she's not interested in recon with you AT THIS TIME...at all.

What MIGHT spark her interest, what MIGHT make her think you have possibly changed, is IF you can make your son your ONLY priority...not the first one, with her right behind, and not A priority among many....but your only priority now.

So stop THINKING about getting your wife back. Don't even go there in your head, for months IF then. It hurts your cause. All the things I'm suggesting will help you EITHER way but what you are suggesting is you doing more of the same with a new TACTIC...so obvious.

Thank you 25yearsmic, HollyAnn and others for your perspective,
Now that I have "calmed down" a little, I can breathe and act with more thoughtfulness than in the excitment that surrounds the court thing.

Of course I NEVER mentionned money being a problem to W. I complain and whine here, but it's the last thing I'd say to W.

In the same order of thought, I never complained about the cold, the flatness here, lack of activities, etc... on contrary, I praised her place in the beginning, saying it was a quiet, good place, where things were organized.

Really? I was pretty sure you two discussed the advantages of France a lot before coming to Canada, and you have complained HERE about living there.

I could have sworn you made remarks about how you would not "again" mention some aspects of living there, things which you hate, which made me think you'd told HER...but maybe you were just venting here again.

Be careful about venting. It only helps if it helps. If you calm down BY venting, fine. But I found that venting tended to get me MORE certain of being "right" = self righteous and more angry when I vented...unless I got helpful feedback to get me back on track.

Now, I understand the concept of her needing this feeling that she "won", that she can leave and, in that way, express how tired and frustrated she was with the marriage, BEFORE she can begin to start seeing that "hey, Bruce is a good guy after all, maybe I have taken too rash a decision..." One has to feel strong before willing to concede anything.

No more ^^^mind reading would be a great thing to finally begin doing. All you "know" is that she was very upset and has initiated no contact with you, and when you do "interact", it has been very curt, correct?

--> Having said that, being "too" friendly in my emails is it counterproductive at this point? (I always wish her a good night, hope you had a good week-end, etc...)

STILL? Are we not clear about this?

Ending with a 2- 3 word "good bye" that is MERELY polite is THE MOST you can do. It's more than sufficient. You can address her by name in the email but do NOT add "Dear" in front of her name, or 'Cher" or any terms of endearment...at all.

You seem to be misreading this situation again. If her name were "Leah", I'd write "Leah, when we meet to drop off son....." and then end it with, AT MOST--- "thanks for your cooperation in this matter.
Bruce"

Polite business relationship.

You seem to think "once she cools down, all will be well" but it won't be. This is much deeper than you seem to grasp.

YOUR CHANGES are the only thing that might get her home.

But at this time, you Being flirtatious or too friendly in the emails looks like pursuit, as if you think the hunt is on again.The hunt is over.

I think saying more than that could either look sarcastic (b/c she knows you were furious and so is she), or as if you are goading her or baiting her to argue or just playing some weird game OR that you are oddly insensitve...as if you don't think you two are in a legal war right now, which you are.

I also understand that it will take time. 6 months or more.

Yes...If ever. But she might not ever change her mind about you.


The problem I have is that in June, coincidentally two things happen: the court order cease, which will rekindle the opposition sentiment, the fears and that obstination in her

STOP the negative mind reading & projecting negative expecations of her in the future, which you do of her, every time. This is a bad reflection on YOU, not her. Who do you think sounds angry, fearful or obstinate to US?

(if they diminish at all in the meantime, that is), and it will be the date where she can legally D without having to ask permissiom from anybody.

So my two questions are: how do I handle the coming three months into us 1.contacting each other normally again, 2.negotiating about extended visit times (possibly 50-50%) for after June and 3.not going to pre-trial which will set ablaze this time the negative con feelings? (besides it's cheaper, if the L bill is like the first one, all my savings aren't enough...) And second question, but it's included in the first almost, how to make her at least not D, she seems to be in such a hurry?

Any thoughts on this?
Merci encore,
Bruce

BRUCE,
You know why I'm going to repeat myself? B/C You just repeated virtually the same question you asked last time --how to act around her in a way most likely to get her back...

And I answered in my very last post to you above!!!...(See THIS is frustrating!)

You do not seem to listen. That's insulting to me b/c of the time I take to write to you, at length.

You claim to value our feedback but then it's clear you did not read it.

So, to REPEAT...

As I see it, you have 3 goals for now and the near future

(& to me, the near future means at least > 6months) Please, Don't argue that time amount.

1) SHOW that you accept your wife's decision to end the marriage (this is advice we ALL get. Not just you.)

You have resisted it so much and that's one of the reasons your w is colder to you than need be. She thinks she has to keep reminding you that she wants it to be over.

If You never give her a chance to examine her choices b/c all you do is argue against/ challenge those choices, then you force her to keep defending those choices & she'll keep on "reminding" you of the choice she made, with cold distant behavior that borders on, or is, rude.

Accepting her choice is also part of respecting her, btw. And it's part of getting you both to drop your guns.

LISTEN & RESPOND as if her answers/opinions matter...like if SHE answered a question you asked, would you then repeat the question & pretend she had not answered already? Can you see how weird that looks? And how annoying it is? No really, can you see that? You really must.

ALSO

Believe that It's over...It's the only way she'll ever FEEL DONE enough to think about the results of her choices.

*** I'm not saying she'll regret the choice to leave. But she might re-think present day cooperation.***

And if there ever comes a time when you two can relax around each other, feel safe and not like there is an agenda, then a friendship might happen.

But that is NOT now or anytime soon. Right now you are legally at war.


2) Show that your son is your concern. NOT your primary concern; your ONLY concern.[/b]

This is part of #1^^. It's mandatory for someone who wants over night visits with his son. HE is the bull's eye, NOT her.


3) Do Not mention money or support to or in front of her. Do NOT whine about it. Do NOT complain about it. To put it bluntly, "man up & shut up".

That does not make you a doormat. If the amount really is too high, YOUR LAWYER can say that! You don't ever have to say a word to her about it. EVER!

do you get this^^^???

You need to counter those complaints and so far, you have done a poor job of it. So think hard before you ignore the advice freely given, in abundance, to you.

[25yearsmlc]

EDITING/CORRECTION

All my words should have been in red, from me to you.

Sorry for the confusion.


--> Having said that, being "too" friendly in my emails is it counterproductive at this point? (I always wish her a good night, hope you had a good week-end, etc...)

STILL? Are we not clear about this?

Ending with a 2- 3 word "good bye" that is Merely polite is THE MOST you can do.

It's more than sufficient. You can address her by name in the email but do NOT add "Dear" in front of her name, or 'Cher" or any terms of endearment...at all.

You seem to be misreading this situation again.

If her name were "Leah", I'd start w/

"Leah, when we meet to drop off son....."

and then I'd end it with, AT MOST---
"thanks for your cooperation in this matter.
Bruce"

Polite business relationship.

You seem to think "once she cools down, all will be well" but it won't be. This is much deeper than you seem to grasp.

YOUR CHANGES are the only thing that might get her home.

But at this time, you Being flirtatious or too friendly in the emails looks like pursuit, as if you think the hunt is on again.The hunt is over. You need to hear us. You need to grasp what we are telling you. I wonder about you not picking up on social cues and what is happening in your life.

I think saying more than that could either look sarcastic (b/c she knows you were furious and so is she), or as if you are goading her or baiting her to argue

or just playing some weird game OR that you are oddly insensitve...as if you don't think you two are in a legal war right now, which you are.

[Big Bruce]

Thanks so much, I am most grateful.

On a side note, I went to C today.
All the details will be in the new thread.

End of a thread, end of an era.

A la revoyure.

[JJAC2005]

Loved it...hated it....mainly because it speaks the truth!

However, even if that rock has been dropped, it had to be dropped, it's time for change had come and at that moment changed it changed from something it use to be, that change and those pieces can be used to build different and better things if you use the right tools and materials!

[hotwheelsaust]

Sorry to butt in, but 25yearsmlc many thanks. I appreciate the way you can put words together to make a statement that is understood. While my sitch is hard (as is everyone's) these kind of statements help me to continue choosing the right path. Thanks again.