Finally getting it after three months...

[Mach1]

How are you holdin up JP ???


I came across this, and wanted to share with you along the lines of what I was talking about last week...


From a Minnesota judge:

Your children have come into this world because of the two of you. Perhaps you two made lousy choices as to whom you decided to be the other parent. If so, that is your problem and your fault.

No matter what you think of the other party-or what your family thinks of the other party-these children are one-half of each of you. Remember that, because every time you tell your child what an "idiot" the other parent is, or what terrible things that person has done, you are telling the child that half of them is bad.

That is an unforgivable thing to do to a child. That is not Love. That is a possession. If you do that to your children, you will destroy them as surely as if you had cut them into pieces, because that is what you are doing to their emotions.

I sincerely hope that you do not do that to your children. Think more about your children and less about yourselves, and make yours a selfless kind of Love, not foolish or selfish, or your children will suffer.

Judge Michael Haas, 2001

[jp787]

LOL. I NEVER agree with the camo routine. There's always a way to address with kindness and compassion.

JP, you are allowing yourself on a roller coaster ride that is so incredibly pointless, I cannot even explain. 2 1/2 years my H left me. He explained to me on an hourly basis that he wanted to divorce. He was not happy and he had not been happy for well over 5 years. I was, at times, called many unkind names that I cannot even put here. He was in an active affair. He wanted nothing to do with me. He was making friends with the OW's friends. He was done, done, done and he explained that to me in so many hurtful ways.

A year ago he came back. He didn't want a divorce. The affair (that he still denies) ended. Turns out that I was the woman of his dreams. He loved me more than anything in this world. I could do no wrong. (Keep in mind this other extreme is no more true than the first).

You have no clue how this is going to turn out. The group here I "graduated" with had spouses leave as mine did and stay gone. There are spouses in the group that have reappeared. Doesn't really matter. All the time we wasted trying to figure it out did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING for a single one of us. The ones who are "successful" are not the ones who put their marriages back together again. The ones who are "successful" are the ones who put THEMSELVES back together again. And you don't give yourself that chance while trying to analyze every thing your W does. I know, I know, you want to smack me. You don't want to hear this. But go to Mach's original threads as an example. These folks transformed and ended up finding themselves in the end. I can't say I've gotten there myself. But I have learned some very hard truths about myself these days. And because I have FINALLY faced these things, I have a chance to save myself. Each of us is on our own journey to learn our own "truths." And you have to take your journey just like I had to take my own. But the longer you distract yourself with what is truly meaningless at the moment (your W's words and doings), you are going to extend that journey.

Lots and lots of hugs tp you as I know this is painful as he!!. I am praying for you.

LIS

This was very helpful, it will be copied and pasted into a document that I am making with so much great advice I have been getting on here. I KNOW your right. I KNOW I have to detach and focus on me. I have been looking deep into who I am today and I hate it, I hate it so much. So knowing that I have a direction to go right? I need one of those shock collars that people get for their dogs for myself and use it every time I get off track, although I would have third degree electrical burns all over my neck. I have five minuets of clear thinking and focus, start to think about me, then wham! right back into the sh!t thinking. Hopefully therapy will help a lot, starting new this Thursday.

[jp787]

Rule #1: Quit snooping.
Rule #2: See rule #1.

Did that snooping make you feel better about your sitch? Did it help you in some way? Do you think your D would appreciate you going through her phone? Do you think your W would appreciate it? I hope you see the answers are no, no, no and no. This is a total lose-lose situation, so stop it!!

It's my crack.

But since you did, might as well learn from it:

W:If he brushes my arm one more time I'm going to punch him.

What's this about? Are you trying to brush up against her as some covert way of working in some physical touch? If so then stop, it's clearly not working and in fact is giving you the opposite of the desired results.

Sitting next to her I rubbed my finger on her arm a couple of time, yes it was wrong. I get in a state of idk like I cant stand it, it is messed up. I need to get up and walk away and breathe and collect myself.

W:Just so tired of it. hard 3 focus. He wanted me to go out Friday night since you both will be busy, think I will say no.

Good grief, you're asking her out on dates?? Have you read Sandi's DB tips? NO DATES!!!! If you had any doubt that it was the wrong thing to do, well you know now because your W is making it very clear that it's not what she wants. It's pressure, quit applying the pressure!!

Yes and ok.

W:I am very interested in feeling that way again. OM made me feel that way wanted, touchable, irrsitable. ur dad can be the same way but it comes across to me as annoying.

This is typical, this is why she needs time and lots of space. What she doesn't need is for you to hover and try and brush up against her and who-knows-what else. She doesn't want you right now in any way shape or form. Understand that and respect it. Until you can give her space she will never learn to miss you and crave that attention again.

This just bothered me so much and yes I am looking up at rule #1 and rereading "Did that snooping make you feel better about your sitch? Did it help you in some way? Do you think your D would appreciate you going through her phone? Do you think your W would appreciate it? I hope you see the answers are no, no, no and no. This is a total lose-lose situation, so stop it!!"

I HATE that she talks like this to D about me!

Then don't give her a reason to. She's responding to your behavior. Change your behavior. Follow DB principals.

Your right, your always right. I need you on my shoulder.
Thank you AS

[jp787]

Been busy this AM so just catching up with your sitch. Still am busy so just going to quote what others said that were similar to my thoughts when reading your post to make sure they really sink in...

Well, that lasted 24 hours....

Come on man, you're better than this. Right???

What is it that you were looking for with the texts ??

What were you hoping to see ????

I just want you to see that YOU were the cause of your undoing...

Stop asking questions that you don't want the answer to...

Or in this case,

Stop looking for things to intentionally hurt yourself....

I wouldn't try to handle it without family counseling.

Depending on what you decide to do I agree this may need some outside help.


Reread AS's thread again because there is some good info in there. Especially questions about what your W was actually saying about you. Are you really doing those things???


Now I'm going to quote you:

I am not going to get anything accomplished focusing on my W so much

So stop it already. Stop snooping, stop obsessing, stop it all.

I need to go throw up and then look inside myself to see what i really want.

Been there, sorry to say throwing up never helped me... Only thing that will help you is to man up. Look at you and fix you. Mach asked you a lot of questions that you should really think hard about.

Thank you!

[jp787]

The way I did it was by actually detaching. I still think about the W once a day at least. But it's definitely like it was a month ago. I do a couple of things when my mind starts going there.
1. I say to myself STOP. The mind is a powerful for thing and this does work
2. If my thoughts continue to dwell on her I switch them to negative attributes about her. There are many. I want to be married to the person she was and what I know she can be. Which leads me to the last thing
3. I can't control her or the situation except for my thoughts and actions. She has to want to change and be that person

I will use #1 and #3 thank you!

[jp787]

Read CoDependent no more, if you haven't already. If you have, read it again.

I own this and have never read it, I will start.

It seems you have little control, you act on your emotions. It may be those things you need to work on with your IC in order to be strong enough to detach and to be the F your D's deserve.

Agreed!

[jp787]

jp, things got much better for me when I realized that our sitch was a 50/50 blame like most are. I accepted that I needed to let go of my W and let her work on her things. I accepted I had my stuff to work at and improve and grow. I accepted that no matter what the outcome I will have a happy and fulfilling life. I accepted that W and I getting a D is a real possibility and I must also think about a plan B.

This is a goal, can't imagine it right now, at all. I know to move forward I have to...

[jp787]

What are the things that have helped everyone most getting your mind off of spouse? I goto the gym and try to focus

I wish I had a good answer for you here but I don't. Been with my W for 20 years and as Bug said you don't just turn that off. Try to keep busy to help but I'd be lying if I said my W/sitch doesn't cross my mind every half hour (up from every 15 min a month ago and every second two months ago...).

yet everything creeps in and I become lost in my fears, misery and self loathing.

Those are all feelings that YOU can control.

What are your fears?

I HAVE to find a way to be more positive and not dwell, it is killing me

Yes!

A book not mentioned a lot on here that helped me with this was The Happiness Trap. It discusses methods of diffusing those bad thoughts.

I still have 'bad' thoughts and many are similar to what you feel. I just force myself to diffuse them quickly before they take hold. Some days are harder than others. Those are days you'll see me venting on here or reaching out to friends.

Happiness trap is in my hands and thank you!

[jp787]

You know, JP, there is nothing inherently wrong with you? The emotions you feel, the grief you are going through is very normal. I don't know why it is we all have such trouble just sitting there and being with those emotions. It may feel like it, but they aren't going to kill us. We are not in mortal danger.

Why distract yourself from your fears? Why not explore them? Why not look at your fears and explore the worst case scenario? Why not sit there in your despair and face that? Why not explore the feelings of self-loathing and figure out where that is coming from? I mean in that I have learned that I need validation from my H in order to feel worthy. That's a problem I need to work on. Not my H.

If I tell you to go sit in a corner and tell you not to think about a white elephant and not to return until you stopped thinking about a white elephant, I'd never see you again! The idea is not to ignore your feelings, not to ignore your grief, not to ignore your fears but to face all of it. We've been sold a bill of goods in life that we are to be happy no matter what. That just isn't true! And it's ok to break down. It's what we do with it that matters. So go to the gym. And if your W creeps up in your mind? Well, that's ok! But go to the gym anyway. You do that for you.

Stop fighting your emotions so hard. The more you fight them, the more fierce you will feel them. And definitely stop thinking there is something wrong with you for how you feel. Be gentle with yourself.

Two books I would recommend are: Self-Compassion and Broken Open.

The idea in these books is that we aren't to ignore or subjugate our "bad" emotions but to work with them. They tell poignant stories of the gifts we get during these awful times if only we will face it and not fight it. I would also recommend you looking up the concept of Phoenix Process on the internet.

I'm praying for you.

LIS

Thank you very much for this and I will order those two books

[jp787]

I do understand what you are saying, and I see your points...

I have been through this, and I had to make a choice with it. I had the choice to sit back, and be the person that I wanted to be, the person that I was striving to be....

Now I had been accused of being controlling and manipulative, to which I had worked through those issues, or was working on them...

So my choice was to either address them, and actually BE that person, or to remain steady in my ACTIONS with who I was striving to be.

I realized that NOTHING can come between a daughter and a mother, that they didn't cause themselves.

I addressed the disrespect from her that was part of the fallout, and I dealt with things that came up when they did.

I was honest when she asked questions, and I became a safe place for her to talk about it.

I WAS concerned with what she had heard, and it bothered me greatly that we had a pretty rough couple years. What happened with that, is that we are stronger than ever, and we continue to build on that relationship daily. I do not allow her to disrespect me, and strangely enough, I do not allow her to disrespect her Mother in front of me (which happens quite often now).

I lived by a code, that it wasn't my job to facilitate, or dictate their relationship, my only job, was to not damage it ( thank you Grace_O)

What she saw daily, were CONSISTENT actions from me being PARENT to her. And ultimately, what she had in my X, was another friend, and as most of us know, in a teenage girl's life, friends come and go....

Parents stay....

Did I want to confront my X her on her parenting ? Hell yes I did...

Did I want to get in the mud pit and fight on her level ???

Not in a million years....

The ONLY thing I ever said to my Daughter was...

You probably hear some things that you shouldn't about me, and all I can say, is that things aren't always what they appear. You are smart, listen to everything and make YOUR choices based on your own information

Thank you Mach1 this is all very good! The quote at the end I may use.