I want to second all of Keep Going's suggestions/questions and say, I as well admire your wanting to do things right and working to heal your marriage. I only hope my H chooses the same thing one of these days.
M: 9 yrs T: 13 yrs H:34 Me:35, S4, D2, S 7 months Dday 11/12-PA & multiple PAs Dbing 12/12 S 1/13 7/13 H moved back in basement. 8/13 #3 born 10/13 still cheating 10/13 He moves across country, I file for D
I agree with KG's suggestions in the first part of her message, about IC (individual counselling) and how the R with OW is just a fantasy, not reality, and that's why it all seemed so wonderful. (Dr Shirley Glass says - "the grass on the other side of the fence looks greener because you don't have to mow it.")
however, I strongly disagree with the 2nd part of KG's message. "transparency" means answering all of your wife's questions honestly. also, not to hide anything - e.g. if you accidentally ran into OW in town or at work, then mentioning this to your wife in a matter-of-fact way is better than if your wife might find out about it otherwise and then worry that you are still hiding things from her.
but, to volunteer that you still have strong feelings for OW - that would simply be hurtful to your wife, but would not in any way help with healing. this is the thing that your wife is most worried about, that you might still have feelings for OW, that you might care about OW more than you care about your wife, etc. you don't need to increase your wife's worry by volunteering this.
now if, for example, your wife *asks* you whether you still have feelings for OW - then you should certainly answer truthfully, but in a way that will reassure her. not in a way that would increase her worry. e.g. (if the following is true): "yes, I still do have strong feelings for OW, but I realize that my R with her was just a fantasy, and I am working with the counsellor in IC to get over these feelings because I really care about you more than I ever cared about OW."
regarding KG's statement that "She will need to be ok with the fact that it will take time before OW is completely out of your mind" and expecting your wife to "hang in there and respect the cheating spouse's loss and healing process." - I disagree, your wife is not your counsellor, and right now she is hurting too much for you to expect her to be "understanding" about your loss. it is your counsellor's job to work with you on your feelings towards OW, and your wife doesn't need the extra burden.
I guess it would be good to share a little of the back story.
My Wife and I met as teenagers married in our early twenties.
We've been married 20 years. We've had all the typical challenges to our marriage, but were able to grow, learn and handle them all together. All but one.
We were the classic Sex Starved Couple. We went to counselling to try to resolve it. I learned and applied everything I could about how to build the foundations to foster intimacy. They didn't create a change in my Wife's behavior. (in a sick way those skills came in handy when I chose to have an affair)
I loved everything about my wife, smart, beautiful, caring, great mother, but lack of intimacy came to define everything in my world.
It felt like I had been left behind by my Wife, that she had walked away, but "oh by the way I expect you to remain faithful"
As it went on it felt like she was torturing me. Lots of "if you were more like this, I'd have sex with you....oh no I meant more like that". "You are messed up, people (women in particular) don't focus so much on sex".
We went to counseling but it never helped.
Then it descended into lots of silent blackmail...OK if you won't give me sexual intimacy then I won't give you ________.
No I was not innocent. I contributed too:
I felt like viewing porn within moderation was OK. She absolutely did not. I thought she was a prude. I thought I was justified because I wasn't getting any. So it became my secret release. (This secrecy helped lay the groundwork for the affair)
I pretty much did EVERY SINGLE thing wrong in trying to support her in discovering her sexuality. I made it "her problem". I allowed it to divide us. I made her the enemy.
I harbored great anger and bitterness toward her in this area of relationship, but sincerely tried to love and appreciate all her other gifts. But ultimately my resentment started appearing in most of the other facets of our relationship. I'm sure I wasn't somebody particularly pleasant to have around.
At the end we were having sex maybe 6 times a year....and then only after a horrible cycle where I wouldn't pursue, she wouldn't even notice, then I would would give in and pursue. (That felt like [censored] I was hurt that she didn't notice, I was angry that I gave in, I was resentful that I had to beg and jump through hoops to get her attention.
Finally, I used the Sex Starved aspect of our marriage as the justification for the unjustifiable: having an affair.
Over time I decided that "if she wouldn't give it to me, that I would be open if someone else was"
I started to fantasize and create "rules" about the affair.
-She would be everything my Wife was, but also very sexually confident.
-It wasn't intended to replace my marriage it was intended to provide what my Wife "wouldn't" or "couldn't".
-It wasn't intended to be long term. It was supposed to be a "prison break" and I would sneak back into prison without the Warden even knowing I was gone.
I fantasized about it for a long time. I made my decision to say yes to the chance of an affair. I romanticised it.
Then the opportunity came.
It was classic. Communication becomes friendship, friendship becomes EA, EA become PA.
We both still loved our spouses we weren't going to leave them.
"Don't you see, this wasn't about them. It was about us. It was about fulfilling the needs our spouses weren't able to fulfill" All that standard crap.
I provided her with romance, interest, attention, validated who she was(all the techniques I'd learned when I was trying to build intimacy with my Wife)
She gave me appreciation for all those things, the appreciation my Wife "never gave". She validated and embraced my sexuality instead of being comfortable with it. She was exactly the sexually confident woman I "KNEW" existed all my life.
K_G, yes I started to view her as my soulmate, the "answer" to my life long longing.
The entire experience was incredibly intoxicating.....incredibly.
The experience itself, not just the OW, the affair experience itself; my fantasy coming to life, the secrecy, the anticipation, the romance, that heady teenager feeling of falling "in love". All of it
At first the compartmentalization worked. This was just about fulfilling my unmet needs. Right? Then I found myself increasingly angry at my Wife, focusing on what the OW was and my Wife wasn't. Resentful that my Wife and Family intruded into my fantasy. I was a complete [censored].
With time little bits of reality crept into our fantasy world. She had some irritating quirks (I'm sure I did to), guilt with the deceit, self disgust with my pursuit of the affair. I think we both knew the affair was coming to a close.
But I was still so intoxicated by the experience I got sloppy about the secrecy and Wife discovered some of our correspondence.
And guess what. I did it TO her. I hurt her in ways I cannot EVER, EVER fully understand.
I single-handedly took away her right to control her life. It was the most selfish thing I could do, anyone could do: I took her world from her, broke it and handed it back broken. I inflicted a wound to her soul.
Nothing, NOTHING she did made what I chose to do acceptable.
Despite that. Despite what a "F" I was. My Wife.... my loving, wise, spirit-filled, smart, beautiful and sexy Wife said she was willing to try to forgive me, to try and save our marriage, and can you believe this? accepted responsibility for her contribution to the damage.
I'm speechless all over again. I still can't believe it. Maybe this is the reason I was supposed to spill my guts all over the screen, to remember it.
What do you do with love and forgiveness like that? To be honest its almost too hard to face. Maybe this is why we avert our faces in God's presence....that much love and forgiveness is too much for us to bear.
Almost the next day we began DB coaching. We also participated in a sex addiction counselling.
Now its 6 months later. I am a fortunate and blessed man.
This process is so terrible, so hard, so humbling. I wouldn't wish this on anybody. But we have made amazing progess, I don't always see it; somedays we go backwards but when I look back on the past 6 months I realize it.
We still have a lot of work to do. This is something we will have to work on the rest of our lives.
Your comments are very perceptive. Yes, there's lots of "halo" around the former OW. I had this fantasy; she fulfilled it exactly. She "came to my rescue"; I came to hers. Chemistry. It ended during the romance phase.
I've allowing that halo to remain and taking all the bad stuff on myself.
My struggle is closing my mind to thoughts of the former OW and unfairly comparing my wife to former OW.
I'm not second guessing my choice to stay (there was really no choice) its the distraction. My Wife, family, heck my life deserve my undiluted attention.
As it regards Transparency, my Wife is extraordinarily empathetic and has a high emotional IQ. She's said things that make it clear that she understands that would be residual emotions. (Recently and out of the blue, she offered to let me send the former OW a letter if I needed to). However I don't bring it up to her. That is unfair to her.
Thank you so, so much for really spilling your guts here. It takes A LOT of courage to do so and I am learning so much from your experience.
I have to admit that it was painful to read, specially when you describe your SSM issues because I also went through that in my marriage and all the feelings you are expressing and all the pain you went through, I inflicted on my H. I can hear him through you and I feel so much pain and guilt for all the hurt I put through.
My H also started an EA (two months before leaving) which then turned into a PA about three months after he left. He is still with OW, more than two years later, and I have so many regrets re. our intimate life...I know now why he ended up with OW and how I contributed to the demise of our M and I would do anything to be able to fix things, although have now accepted that my H is gone and my M is over.
That is why I believe you are in such an envious position. You have an AMAZING, AMAZING wife and I am very glad to hear that you recognize and appreciate it. It also sounds like you are truly both working hard to heal the wounds and re-establish the trust within your marriage. You sound like a really solid guy as well. So I can only repeat that you are very, very fortunate to be in such a position.
As you probably realize now, your story is not unique, but there are particular aspects of it that make me think you might benefit from posting (and reading) in other forums of this site as well.
I would definitely check out the SSM forum, if you haven't yet. The advice there is very specific to your situation and issues and you will find an amazing wealth of knowledge and support. I think that until you guys deal with your SSM issues, you won't truly have a fulfilling M and other problems will arise in the future.
I would also highly recommend the piecing forum, since that is what you are your W are doing. Many think that once couples decide to try to rebuild, all is smooth sailing. As you have probably experienced first hand, piecing is probably even more difficult and over in that forum you will also get A LOT of support. I would also read from the archives from people who also had to deal with infidelity, like you and how they put their R back together.
L'I - keep posting, keep sharing - to vent, to journal, to sort through your feelings, to get advice.
I am really, really rooting for you - you seem to have your feet firmly planted on the ground. Hang in there!
Me & H: 44 D7, D6, S3 Together: 20y, M: 17y EA: 11/13/10, Sep: 12/23/10 EA becomes PA: Spring 2011 H filed for D: 09/06/12 D Negotiating began 2/15 OW seemingly gone on 3/15 Still negotiating D
I do hope you keep posting. I know I will surely be wanting to pick your brain and ask some Q regarding your experience so I can understand what my H is going through. (I hope you don't mind).
thanks!
Me & H: 44 D7, D6, S3 Together: 20y, M: 17y EA: 11/13/10, Sep: 12/23/10 EA becomes PA: Spring 2011 H filed for D: 09/06/12 D Negotiating began 2/15 OW seemingly gone on 3/15 Still negotiating D
Thanks for the visit and the support! I was kinda worried about you.
"is it too much to ask for the nightmare to end" is a phrase I found all to familiar from my own darkest moments. No matter what is going on nothing should be that dark.
Please don't beat yourself up about your Sex Starved history. Nobody ever means to do it on purpose. Its an uncomfortable topic that nobody wants to talk about. Plus our culture sets women in particular up for failure. We repeatedly tell our girls not to be sexual until marriage, then the day after marriage we tell them to be very sexual. WTF? No road map, no instruction. Just thou shalt not, then thou shall, frequently and with great enthusiasm.
I read your story a bit last night and today. I am so very sorry you have to go through this. It is such a terrible thing to go through, but with younger kiddo's, it takes a woman of rare strength to survive and grow as you have.
One thing I've noticed as I've read your story is how much you've grown in wisdom, insight and strength.
Perhaps your marriage has come to an end, who knows. But I really believe that the way you have carried yourself through this has produced a deep, interesting, and steadfast woman that any man, your husband or another, would be blessed to be with.
