I've told the kids they don't have to continue to talk to him if he gets abusive.
S14 is OK with this and follows through, but D17 wants to argue and 'set him right'. I've provided a good role model over the years for this!
The issue of professional help is problematic. OW (ex family friend) masquerades as a therapist, and so kids don't trust anyone taking this role. They are very resistant to the idea.
[quote=sandycay]I would take my phone off the hook after 9...your kids don't need this right before bed and during HW hours....PERIOD
Sandy, I've been afraid to do this as he's threatening me with a custody battle because I 'deny him access' to the kids. To hear you say that this is reasonable is very helpful.
In our child visitation rights paper...here's what we put in....
"It is both parents wishes that each child have a good relationship with the children. The children are of age to make decisions and arrangements with each parent."
So good to hear this. It's what my L said to do. I have tried this with stbx but he insists I make arrangements with him. I will have to get something drawn up so that he stops the harassment.
My EX sound exactly like yours...except eventually other than every 6-8 weeks to surface and stir the pot.... my kids have had very little to do with their dad.
It's their choice....I tried making them go in the beginning but then saw the mental abuse he was subjecting them to and stopped forcing and just repeated what the court papers say. It takes me out of the loop....but it does not stop him from blaming me for them not having a relationship. WHATEVER!
Yep, I get it. I just have to detach. If he blames me, he blames me.
Stop engaging...your kids are of age.... he needs to stop harassing them and that is an issue that you need to bring up to your attorney.
Will do!
Now, I will say once in the beginning my then 13 yr old D didn't like what I was doing and said something to the effect of living with her dad (he lives on a boat in another town ...so yea right and he travels all the time) Now, she has the right to make this decision but I'm smart enough to know ...it was her trying to see what power she had......so I leaned across the counter and calmly said..."honey, that's fine....You will have to stay for one year min., change schools, and make arrangements for someone to keep you when he is gone." Because the reality is..he is in no shape to house children nor care for them in his current social status. She knew that and didn't want to ....just a power play.... those darn kids.
I've been here with D17, too. It scares me to think she might just run to him if I try to enforce particular rules. But really, I know that it wouldn't work if she did. She is just that stubborn that she might try to hold out with him for long enough to damage her chances in her final year of high school, however.
I feel bad now in hind-sight that I let my EX emotionally and verbally abuse the children in hopes to restore their relationship and wish I would have stood up to it earlier.
Document all inappropriate things he says and does.
I do!
There is no law against you turning that phone off in the evening and having your kids do it too at night. Tell the judge due to HW restrictions and bedtime issues with the dad getting them upset you felt it was necessary for the children.
Good point.
Let him know he can call your attorney to find out his information from now on. Stop conversing about this with him.[
Yikes - scared he will call my L so frequently that it will cost me more than I can afford.
You are in the business of divorce and need to take that emotion of needing to fix, be right, try to make him do right out of the equation now.
Yep, It's a legal matter now. Leave it up to the experts.
Treat it like a transaction that deals with your life and your kids....because it does! Look out for your kids and for you.
Your doing great for the most part...but I would stop answering his phone calls. I keep everything to text or email for the purpose of now 3 years later (we are headed back to court) but I have documentation of bulling, blackmail, cursing and mine are always polite and respectful..
Yes, I get this!
He doesn't call to talk to me anymore....because he got use to the kids telling him I couldn't talk...take your choice.... "She's in the bathroom, not here etc."
Now, I am not all happy about the kids lying and I would always email or text back soon ....with some excuse as to why I couldn't talk then either.... and ask him what was up.
I did explain to my kids why I didn't want to talk to him on the phone but I didn't want to be rude either. He was always yelling at me or cursing me. So, they got it..with the explanation I would have written communication so dad would know I got the message.
Thanks for this, it helps so much. Didn't want the kids to think I was refusing to even talk to him.
I also told my kids that if anyone starts yelling or cursing them out on the phone....they should say calmly "if you don't stop yelling or cursing. I'm going to hang up"...if that person continues...don't say goodby or anything... hang up and don't answer if they call back right away. Rinse and repeat
This will either teach that person to talk calmly or they never learn and get pissed and try to spew more.
This taught my kids not to allow anyone to talk to them with disrespect by yelling and cursing. BTW...that goes for the mom too!
Teaching and learning effective communication skills is essential. And NO ONE should be subjected to continued verbal abuse...by a friend, stranger, spouse or a parent.
I will reinforce this with them. I've talked to them about it, but D17 in particular gets caught up in wanting to point out to him how wrong he is and how hard our situation has become.
Stbx arrived tonight to collect the kids. He'd insisted that i nominate a time, so i did. I asked him to speak to the kids about it beforehand. He chose not to.
When he got here (7pm on a school night) D17 said she had a big assignment essay due tomorrow and she didn't have time to go out with him. S14 said he had homework too.
He ranted and raved and ended up telling them they had to come out of the house with him because he needed to give them a lecture about how to behave (he really said this!).
After 10 mins he stomped out, but not before he insisted that i tell him whether or not I had received the D papers (my L responded to his L days ago).
After he left S14 said "What an arsehole".
I asked stbx before he left if his dad was Ok but he just grunted at me, so I thought I should ring MIL and FIL to check in and say that we'd heard the news about his illness and were worried about him.
Well, FIL answered when I rang and he was very cold. I told him the kids were worried about him and would he like to speak to them and he said "I would like to see the kids at my house, with stbx name."
I said "Sure, absolutely".
He said "You need to tell stbx that and let them come with him"
I stammered and stuttered because I was so taken aback to think that they would assume that i was stopping the kids from seeing their father or their grandparents.
I blurted out "Stbx was here tonight actually".
FIL obviously knew this and then things fell into place for me. Stbx has been telling them that i won't allow him to see the kids or take them out of the house... He probably told his parents he was bringing the kids to see them tonight (it would have been a 2-hr outing). He didn't tell the kids this, nor me.
The issue is that that they don't want to go with out him because he has been treating them so badly, and yells and demands things of them with out considering that they have schedules and plans, etc. His refusal to provide any money for them is also having a big effect on their teenage lifestyles and they resent him for that.
Anyway, he has now turned his parents against me. How they can believe him IDK. They know what he's like. They know what he's done...
The phrase: "If an MLC-er's lips are moving, he's lying" springs readily to mind.
I am just about finished with the whole darn lot of them. If people cant's see right from wrong, well sorry. Life's too short.
I suppose I haven't grown much at all. I really can't get past the idea that people should behave fairly and honestly. I realise that it's futile to try to control others, but there's no point beating your head against a brick wall of poor choices and lack of ethics.
Kids and I sat up till 10.30pm struggling through English and Classics essays for homework. All I really wanted to do was watch a bit of Downton Abbey.
A funny thing happened on the way to divorce court...
My therapist says something to me ALL THE TIME. "Nothing is as it appears." And it isn't. I remember sitting in my office while my H and his OW were carrying on an affair in the same company I worked in. I felt very isolated. I felt everyone was on his side. My H is EXTREMELY personable... EVERYONE loves him. His friends AND parents (who told me at my wedding that I was their daughter - yeah right) told him to leave me if he wasn't happy. I mean I really felt the whole world was against me. Well? Not quite. I was AMAZED by the support I received from both mutual friends AND complete strangers. I was so wrapped up in the few that were supporting him, I wasn't paying attention to the MANY supporting me. I came across a quote at that time that I really keep in mind all the time... "count on those who count but pardon those uncounted." NLW, you cannot change your H's mind or your in-laws. Give it time, though, because I guarantee it will come into focus for all of them. But in the meantime, your job is NOT to worry about those who are unsupportive but stay in step with those who are. I bet there are a lot more. Does it hurt? Sure. You feel that "family" is abandoning you. Everything is changing. But those that REALLY matter will be by your side. I know this will make NO sense right now but when you come out of this, it will. You will be thankful for this time in ways. If you do this right, you will have found yourself... AND you will find out who your true friends are. Sure the lesson hurts a bit, BUT you will be grateful.
There are no 2x4's from me other than to say boundaries, boundaries, boundaries. When he's acting in this manner, it's time for you to do what you are already accused of anyway... get your kids and yourself out of this situation. And do not be afraid to do this. Your H chose this path, not you. You are not responsible for his relationship with his kids. You are responsible for you. And I know I keep saying this, but so long as you keep your hands clean, you will be able to look yourself in the mirror later on and be proud of how you handled yourself. HOWEVER, keeping your hands clean does NOT mean not confronting your H when his behavior is out of control. That's protecting your children... whole different matter.
Sweetie, I know it hurts bad. I really know this. But operating from a place of fear, operating from a place where you're constantly worried about what people think of you (especially the ones that DON'T COUNT right now) will cause you far more pain. Hold your head high, do the right thing, establish boundaries, protect those children... and dream of better days that are sure to come.
Oh and that part about letting it all go??? Yes!!!!! Strange as it is, when we do that, THAT'S when the change happens. Not when we pretend to do that, but when we ACTUALLY do that. That's detachment. Hugs sweetie.
A funny thing happened on the way to divorce court...
My therapist says something to me ALL THE TIME. "Nothing is as it appears." And it isn't. I remember sitting in my office while my H and his OW were carrying on an affair in the same company I worked in. I felt very isolated. I felt everyone was on his side. My H is EXTREMELY personable... EVERYONE loves him. His friends AND parents (who told me at my wedding that I was their daughter - yeah right) told him to leave me if he wasn't happy. I mean I really felt the whole world was against me. Well? Not quite.
Thanks LIS, I needed to hear something like this.
I was AMAZED by the support I received from both mutual friends AND complete strangers. I was so wrapped up in the few that were supporting him, I wasn't paying attention to the MANY supporting me. I came across a quote at that time that I really keep in mind all the time... "count on those who count but pardon those uncounted." NLW, you cannot change your H's mind or your in-laws. Give it time, though, because I guarantee it will come into focus for all of them.
OK, I'll take this onboard. I haven't spoken to many people about my sitch, so don't know who would 'support' me as such. Maybe it's time to get it out there.
But in the meantime, your job is NOT to worry about those who are unsupportive but stay in step with those who are. I bet there are a lot more. Does it hurt? Sure. You feel that "family" is abandoning you. Everything is changing. But those that REALLY matter will be by your side. I know this will make NO sense right now but when you come out of this, it will. You will be thankful for this time in ways. If you do this right, you will have found yourself... AND you will find out who your true friends are. Sure the lesson hurts a bit, BUT you will be grateful.
Yes, I already have my 'suspicions' about family members who would take stbx's side unquestioningly - and even encourage him on his path - regardless of what the consequences are for our kids. That hurts, but I know that those who do this are small-minded types anyway.
There are no 2x4's from me other than to say boundaries, boundaries, boundaries. When he's acting in this manner, it's time for you to do what you are already accused of anyway... get your kids and yourself out of this situation. And do not be afraid to do this. Your H chose this path, not you. You are not responsible for his relationship with his kids. You are responsible for you.
Thanks for reminding me of this again. It really helps.
And I know I keep saying this, but so long as you keep your hands clean, you will be able to look yourself in the mirror later on and be proud of how you handled yourself. HOWEVER, keeping your hands clean does NOT mean not confronting your H when his behavior is out of control. That's protecting your children... whole different matter.
YES, thanks for this advice.
Sweetie, I know it hurts bad. I really know this. But operating from a place of fear, operating from a place where you're constantly worried about what people think of you (especially the ones that DON'T COUNT right now) will cause you far more pain. Hold your head high, do the right thing, establish boundaries, protect those children... and dream of better days that are sure to come.
Wow... you sure know how what I'm going through. Thanks so much. I'll be reading and re-reading this post to keep me on track. My best to you.
Hi NLW, About your FIL, keep in mind that at the end of the day they are his parents. They will eventually support him, especially if they practice unhealthy behaviors.
In my sitch, MIL & FIL were telling me how much they would support me. Then I found out MIL asked H to spend the night at OW house cuz his uncle needed the guest room.
And MIL manipulated a situation so that I wouldn't move into one of our apts and H would move in instead.
Her whole thing was, she was afraid I wouldn't let her see the kids. So she made it seem like she was there for me. Come to find out, she was just manipulating.
I believe that she likes me but I don't think she practices healthy boundaries so I started to limit my interactions with her and conversations and EXPECTATIONS.
I hope this helps ;-)
M 42 H 39 T10 (-2yrs separation) S8 D5 DD 7/30/11 (EA&PA) Reconciled 6/2013 Separation in works 1/2017
