Living, Getting the Paperwork Started (20 months)

[adinva]

No Bug, it's not about me vs him, though you're right when I read that I see it too. Not at all. It's about my kid and who's going to parent him.

If I've learned anything in this mess it's that I'm not right in a vacuum. I'm human in a world of things my brain's trying to interpret the very best it can, and a whole world of other interpretations opened up when I first learned my marriage wasn't anything like what I thought it was. How could I be so completely wrong? Part of it is that absent other input that was compelling to me, I relied on my own judgement and interpretation.

I know I think I'm right about S15 needing love and compassion, and to be treated like a thinking feeling person and not like a criminal. I know I may be overdoing it in that direction.

I know I think my H is unreasonable and unmoveable. I know he thinks he is more right than me, and I know that there's some right in what he believes too.

I value the world in which I'm not always right, and I want to get there with my H for the good of the kids. I don't want to say, I've got them and you don't; I wanted them and you want to walk away from them; I live here everyday and you moved out...so it's my way unless I happen to agree with you. That's what it boils down to.

I'm struggling against my native impulse to push back and let him shut down so I can do what I want. That's not easy for me.

I'm also struggling against our normal dynamic, which is ONE conversation and DONE. He said what he said, it's not going to change, we can argue more but there's not really any point in talking more. I've been trying to cultivate a habit of exploratory conversations that occur over time, so there's a chance to think and absorb between the times when we're both trying to pursue our own point.

I would rather be able to say he's a jerk, he doesn't know anything about loving and raising kids, and he doesn't want to, the heck with him. I can definitely do that and I know he'll back down, because he always did before if I pushed back. And his resentment doesn't hurt me anymore since we're not going to be married for life anymore.

So it's not at all about me winning or him winning, it's about how I somehow create a two-parent approach to raising our son, because I believe my son needs that.

So, ok, I guess it's about me winning in trying to get H on board with real coparenting...? I don't know, I think that's overly critical of what I'm trying to do. It's about me really trying to do the best for my kid.

[labug]

OK, that's what I thought. We all get bogged down in our thinking sometimes. And unfortunately I too often jump to this: He's not been a successful parent, how would he know what it takes? I apologize for that reactive statement.

I understand what you're trying to do because I am working on more co-parenting with my H.

What do you need from your H? Have you told him that?

[Accuray]

I think this comes down to two stubborn people having a hard time accepting a middle ground. You are both convinced that your way is the "right" one and that the other person's way is harmful and wrong.

From what you've said this has been a dividing issue throughout your marriage -- your H doesn't like how you parent, his family has accused you of monopolizing the kids. You don't like how he parents, you think he is unsympathetic, abusive and extreme.

It seems obvious that neither of you are going to switch camps on this issue -- I think you're afraid that getting behind H will be abusive and unnecessarily harsh for the kids. H isn't going to get behind you because he thinks you coddle them and allow them to live in a manner that disrespects their parents, so he's going to step away and then hit you with "I told you so" whenever things go wrong.

So you have incompatible parenting philosophies and you're both stubborn -- what are you going to do?

1) You can withdraw and take the "my house, my rules" approach which it doesn't seem like you want for the sake of your kids.

2) You can try to be deferential to H when it suits you, but I think we all have serious concerns about his abusiveness.

3) You can try for a middle ground that you both agree upon.

For #3, I think this has to be in terms of a framework versus a negotiated response to each issue as it arises. I don't think either of you will defer to the other's claims of righteousness, so the very best course of action is probably to take a parenting or co-parenting class together where there is an expert or authority on child rearing who will mediate polar disputes.

What I would suggest is discussing the issue with H: "H, we don't agree on parenting approaches, we're not going to come to agreement on our own, and not doing so will be a continual source of tension. I recommend we seek some outside help to agree on a framework for co-parenting."

What is a framework? I see it as a set of rules:

1) No physical punishment: we will agree not to engage in beating, hair cutting, etc.

2) No verbal berating: we will agree not to use works like "stupid", "dumb", or other words that would undercut our children's self-esteem

3) Negative behavior will have consequences: We will agree on a list of punishments for minor to major infractions, and we will enforce them consistently. We will agree on what constitutes major and minor infractions.

4) We will expect our children to be respectful: These are the behaviors we consider to be disrespectful (list), and these are the types of behaviors we equate with respect (list).

The trick here will be negotiating the punishment schedule to something you are both satisfied with, as well as what constitutes major and minor infractions. This will be a negotiation to be sure, but you shouldn't end that process until you both agree.

If you negotiate that list in advance, and H sees you applying it as agreed, it will probably make everything easier for both of you.

The other benefit is that talking about it as a framework will remove the emotion associated with any given incident.

Accuray

[BklynMom]

Accuray what a sensible approach!! How do you make it look so easy. I am totally being serious I love how you outlined steps and came up with a plan for an extremely tough sitch

[scaredsilly]

Accuray is 24 karat. I don't know how he ended up here but we are all lucky he did.

[Crazyville]

^^^^ ("Like" button)

[Accuray]

You're all too kind, you're making me blush! I really do appreciate it. Unfortunately, I probably didn't provide Adinva what she needed with that post. Typical male attempt to fix rather than support. Adinva if I offended I apologize.

Acc

[adinva]

OMG no Acc you didn't offend. My eyes started to glaze over and my chin started itching with panicy asthma and I just couldn't formulate any kind of a response, but what I should have said was just, thank you. You're very wise and very knowledgeable, and you can take a relationship challenge and convert it into steps and worksheets. I was in such an overwhelmed state that I could barely function let alone consider drafting an agreement with H about rules. Oh my goodness I haven't even drafted the agreement that says he'll give me money and I'm starting to drown without money so you can imagine...

But those are my issues, and I do appreciate your help and interest.

Based on my recent not very effective attempt at holding a coparenting conversation with my H I feel like there's an insurmountable amount of ground to cover on items 1, 2, 3, and 4. It's a very old routine of our that if I try to seek agreement or state my case or express disapproval of ___insert almost anything here___ he will say "FINE. I won't do THAT anymore." and there will be no meeting of the minds, and he'll act restricted and resentful and speak loudly and sarcastically of me in group settings about how completely unreasonable I am and won't let him do this or that. It's not about agreeing, it's about even my softest disagreement being treated like I'm some evil hag cramping his style and ruining his kids. I just saw it with the request that I tried to sandwich between positive affirmations, that he please not yell so much because we were trying to have a respectful house. Which caused him, I later found out, to do and say basically nothing about drugs in the house because I wouldn't let him and I told him "not to overreact." Mistaken words, mistaken ideas, not questioned, angrily obeyed. So yeah, he thinks a haircut is not a physical punishment and he thinks a disparaging insult is nothing more than the kid deserves and if he didn't want to be called dum*as$ then he should just learn not to act like one. When I dispute these, I will get FINE DO WHAT YOU WANT.

We're not done, but the way ahead just seems so long to me.

While you recommend a more collaborative approach, my IC, who has met and spoken with him a few times and seen this first hand, feels I'm already at the point of stating this is how we'll be in my house and you be how you want in your house if the kids choose to go there. I'm not there yet. I recognize that I play myself the good guy to H's bad guy, in my own mind, and in the words I choose to provide to you. It can't possibly be that simple.

Anyway, rather than turning this particular issue into a need to build and over-arching agreement, for now, I'm addressing this particular issue the way I believe appropriate taking into account what I gathered from H during our conversation.

I'm working with S15 to understand him better and to make sure he knows he's not a bad kid that we dislike but a human kid who might need more help and guidance than he thinks he does right now. So I confronted him on the stuff, let him know in no uncertain terms how much it went against our values, beliefs, and the law, and the legal consequences that he was risking. The personal consequences took me more time to calm down and consider.

I will be talking with a substance abuse counselor for an evaluation of S15 and I'm considering that he needs to meet with her and provide me with a report of what he learned from her, which I will look at with an eye to deciding if he learned enough and treated the situation with enough respect that I can forgo a formal treatment program. For now. He'll be on notice that the next slip will be undergoing the treatment program.

I clarified to him that there will be not one more instance of drugs or paraphernalia in my house, and what will happen if I see it or even one sign that I've come to associate with it, like excessive cologne, candles, matches. On the spot I'll call parents of every child in my house at the time this is noted.

He's been grounded for this week and will begin earning back the privilege of seeing friends only when I see that he is acting responsible by getting to school on time and catching up on the work he missed. He won't be having sleepovers until his grades are actually up.

I want to have more conversations with him, and have so much I want to hear from him and share with him, but he only tolerates small doses of that.

I'm reserving the right for his dad and me to search the house top to bottom at any time, and I'm reserving the option to call the police and file a report if I don't feel like education and other consequences have had enough of an impact.

I want to be able to share all of these ideas with H and get his involvement, and I need to work on the ability to hear him through my dread and anger. I am not doing as well as I think I'm capable of. I'm operating at a pretty high stress level, and yesterday when I pulled in the driveway and saw his car there I was already getting worked up about how it was going to go and how much I'd like to just come home to peace and quiet when I need to. And I was touchy. He'd been to the school college info night, and I had too because my guitar lesson got cancelled at the last minute, so he shared what he heard as I'd asked him to:

"nothing matters except getting a's and b's. course selection is happening now and he'd better make sure he only signs up for easy classes he can get an a in."

And I shared what I'd heard as I'd happened to be there:

"it also matters that they start figuring out what they like. Take classes they enjoy, start tying their hobbies into coursework and seeking out leadership or extra opportunities in the areas they can get excited about."

I don't know if I come across as defensive to H as I feel, but I suppose I must. I feel like a rat in an electricity experiment, and my nerves are frayed, and when I just see my H I feel the floor start to sizzle.

However, things are looking up. Yesterday while clenching my teeth over a really over the top board member who is piling on too many projects he doesn't want to pay me to do, I felt a little bit excited about the overall goals of the organization I work for...I just felt the cool breeze of passion for what I do, in the face of the pelting hail of unappreciated overwork. Then I noticed a pretty day. Made it to the gym twice even though just for a very short workout. Caught myself thinking that my mom being living is currently more important than that my mom is living with cancer. Just seeing more balance in my outlook, which I know will help a lot.

And then I also am starting to get caught up on the backlog of scout, personal, business, and client work. Got about 15 loads of laundry done, made two areas in my house look nicer and neater than before, and am looking forward to my multifaceted and imperfectly human S15 playing in his very first game on the high school team this Saturday. He not just a drug problem. Anyway. That was a long answer to the question of whether I was offended. I was just stuck...less so today.

[Accuray]

Glad to hear you're feeling better and it sounds like you have the S15 situation well under control, good for you!

Acc

[adinva]

Thanks for the kind words Acc, but I don't think I have anything well under control. I'm just doing the best I can from moment to moment with what I've got.