Still confused...about everything.

[BRNR]

Just journaling-first day really living life as if H has completely gone. It felt okay...like the start of a new life. I say it was okay, as this is not the life I want...single parent and being without my boys for days at a time are killing me.

I also have to comment Snodderly on losing hope. I feel as though I have. And not because of time, but because of actions.

There has been a lot of good in my situation, which leads me to believe that H does not have MLC and is a typical WAS who was going through his own emotions of the separation, affair, and slight depression at the time that he left. He doesn't seem happy, but he is not sad either. He said in conversation the other day that he no longer feels depressed and that he feels in our relationship that we were missing something (and always talks about it in the past tense). He also said he feels " our relationship was like a rope, which has now been cut, and there is just no way of putting it back together". Strange analogy for me, but it is a coherent thought. I know someone said all MLC'ers say some of the same things, but he just seems too "normal" with all the other things to be in MLC...sometimes I think he is and other times not so much.

I know, take focus of H, but my point was to make that he seems rational in ending our relationship, which has "opened my eyes" to the reality the we are no longer together...which has in turn made me lose hope and has given me the mind set to move on and forward.

The one nagging thing that bothers me and has held me back is that when we talked a month ago about the divorce, he said he didn't want it, but he is not committed on working on us either....this one statement/action is what "concerns" me at the moment. It is like he is trying to hold on, but hold on to what? And I don't think it is me.

In other news, I did go to the pool hall and played pool with my boys and H. It went very well, I had so much fun and was excited to see how much my kids could do. They are amazing kids. We had two tables (as opposed to the normal one he gets when he takes them) and we traded who was playing who very often. My H and I even went against each other several times. I had a lot of fun, and we played for quite a few hours...five hours.

So afterward, I just texted H to let him know that I had a good time, thanks for inviting me, and that he taught the boys so much and that they were getting really good. He texted back (on an hour delay because he said he was having phone issues), that he was Sorry he had not responded sooner and that the boys were getting good and that I was welcome and it was fun. I responded with a no problem, and to have a nice night. He replied you too.

Afterward, I ended up going to my girlfriends house for dinner. Her and I also watched a couple of movies and hung out with her kids. It was fun.

What was nice about today over all was that I felt comfortable being me all day, I didn't have those overwhelming emotions that my life is in shambles, or the worries of what he was doing, or if anything I was doing was good or bad, and I just enjoyed myself. I didn't even get that negative mixed emotions feelings I usually get when (and after)I spend time with H. It was really stress free, drama free, anxiety free..

Well off to bed, another day down, the rest of my life to go....

[25yearsmlc]

Hi BR,

I've read most of your thread, but missed the part where your h released OW...dang, that one would be a fun thing to read...

Anyhow, I related to a lot of your situation from some years ago. The issues of

1) what to tell the kids, especially when you do not know the future --divorce? Reconciliation? Divorce AND remarriage to others??

and

2) there ARE signs of a h who may come back (more about why I think that, later)

and 3) you have a health issue looming,

and 4) you are not okay with this indefinite situation going on a lot longer.
YOUR emotions are shifting weekly if not daily.

So here we go...

Just journaling-first day really living life as if H has completely gone. It felt okay...like the start of a new life. I say it was okay, as this is not the life I want...single parent and being without my boys for days at a time are killing me.

There will come a time when you're able to see the upsides of alone time. At first it'll be small things you notice, like being able to watch chick flicks, not having a messy bathroom 5 minutes after cleaning it, or sleeping in...

Cultivate those small moments b/c really, what choice do you have?

Here are some random thoughts and replies to your journalling. Hope the
intersections help b/c sometimes highlighting our own words helps a lot, but sometimes it kills the flow...here goes...

I found that people who learn to be alone, and happy, are a lot more interesting. They usually have something to say, maybe b/c they read or think more when they have time on their own. But being alone at this point in your situation isn't good UNLESS you use the time to rest. Otherwise it's
alone time that makes one feel isolated and highlights what they miss.

You'll hear people say "GAL" a million times here...b/c it works.
People who GAL, "bring more to the table"

and something paradoxical happens too.

When an LBSer GAL, for real, it's not just about "I don't want to obsess about my WAS" time. That is a reason to GAL at first...to stop the endless questioning and obsessing and looping around the highway without taking an exit ramp...but if you keep at PMA and GAL...

It becomes more like

"I like connecting with other people meaningfully"

OR "I always wanted to learn how to cook Italian food/speak French/take a photograph class/join a writer's group/go skydiving..."

and that helps a PMA big time...people learn to be away from their spouse, AND to imagine life without their spouse... but still being happy...

AND THEN

the paradox comes into play. For it seems to me that those people are the ones who end up happiest...for sure.

And the paradox is, that when you realize truly deeply inside your heart, that you WILL be happy again, you will love/be loved again, you will laugh again, With or WITHOUT your WAS,

the WAS's often, start a turn around.

I'm not saying it'll be in time for you to want him back OR if you will at all, OR if you'll become a WAS sort of yourself...

but I have seen that many WASs second guess their choice to leave when
one or more of the following happen.

1) they have or allow a good memory of their old life to resurface...

2) they don't see so much anger/hurt in their LBS, so they're more relaxed around the LBSer...

3) something in their new life stinks or goes wrong...(including OP)

4) AND OR the LBS has had (or seems to) an Awakening...he/she is happy, interestING & interestED,

has new hobbies or interests or people in her life, radiates the belief that he/she will be just fine, thanks, with or without the WAS...

and that belief radiating is contagious. The kids feel it and are soothed..."if mom's not freaking out, then maybe OUR world isn't about to end"...and the WAS begins to wonder..."IF I'm not the problem, then how come LBSer is happy again? IF I'm so great, how come she learned to be happy without me? If she's not miserable and angry...where are my justifications for leaving her??

NOTICE-the only factor YOU have any direct control over, is the last one.



I also have to comment Snodderly on losing hope. I feel as though I have. And not because of time, but because of actions.

There has been a lot of good in my situation, which leads me to believe that H does not have MLC and is a typical WAS who was going through his own emotions of the separation, affair, and slight depression at the time that he left. He doesn't seem happy, but he is not sad either.

2 thoughts on this^^.

1) everything you've said to me, seems MLC as much as WAS; and

2) it does not matter which it is b/c your course of action is the same AND I have seen no evidence that MLCers come home more often than WASs. I regret the amount of time I spent on wondering if my h was in an MLC or simply culminating a pattern of selfishness I had not noticed, etc.

THe only pattern I have noted is that if it's not the first affair, but at least the 2nd A, the spouse is usually just a serial cheater. ( I don't think that applies in your sitch, unless I missed that too.)


He said in conversation the other day that he no longer feels depressed and that he feels in our relationship that we were missing something (and always talks about it in the past tense). He also said he feels " our relationship was like a rope, which has now been cut, and there is just no way of putting it back together". Strange analogy for me, but it is a coherent thought. I know someone said all MLC'ers say some of the same things, but he just seems too "normal" with all the other things to be in MLC...sometimes I think he is and other times not so much.

I know, take focus of H, but my point was to make that he seems rational in ending our relationship, which has "opened my eyes" to the reality the we are no longer together...which has in turn made me lose hope and has given me the mind set to move on and forward.
]]

You are assuming way too much about how HE feels and what it all means. So what if he seems calm and rational? He said he does not feel romantic feelings but last week?? he was flirting with you w/the texting...

Besides however, moving forward is not the same as shutting and locking the door. It's a good thing if you keep that in mind.

If you had a crystal ball and learned that even in 5 years, he'd be gone, what would you do? (Imagine the picture of your life with you being happy, doing whatever...)

One thing is, you'd want to move forward that much faster, right?

BUT If there is going to be a reconciliation, wouldn't it be MORE likely if you acted as if you'd be fine no matter what?

And, isn't that the ultimate truth/goal of yours?

See, to me the only 2 options you do NOT have is

one where you hang your hopes for happiess on his return or

two, where you eliminate the chance of reconciliation for whatever reason, including b/c you want to punish him.

IF you want to cut the cord and move forward without any hope of a recon b/c you truly believe it's the only way to protect your heart,

I'd accept that if and only if, I knew you had worked a lot longer on DETACHMENT. But you really have not had time with that goal in mind. Have you contacted a DB coach? I know you'll say they cost a lot, but they are cheaper than divorce and very specific in their advice. My DB coach was a GODSEND...without her, I'm sure we'd be divorced, b/c I would have filed.

Until you do that detachment work, I'll always think it's possible to hope for the best but plan for the worst.

And when I say "plan for the worst" THAT still includes YOU being happy. Both options do. So detach, move forward, but keep being upbeat and warm towards him b/c he's your kids dad,

it helps THEM and it keeps the road home, paved and smooth.

FWIW, I've had 2 family members (an aunt and a cousin) divorce and remarry their former spouses a few years later. So yes, it happens.



The one nagging thing that bothers me and has held me back is that when we talked a month ago about the divorce, he said he didn't want it, but he is not committed on working on us either...

not such a WAS then, eh? At a minimum, he's got some swinging emotions and confusion.

.this one statement/action is what "concerns" me at the moment. It is like he is trying to hold on, but hold on to what? And I don't think it is me.

what is it then, if not you? And what difference does it make IN TERMS of your behavior or course of action now?

In other news, I did go to the pool hall and played pool with my boys and H. It went very well, I had so much fun and was excited to see how much my kids could do. They are amazing kids. We had two tables (as opposed to the normal one he gets when he takes them) and we traded who was playing who very often. My H and I even went against each other several times. I had a lot of fun, and we played for quite a few hours...five hours.

This^^^ is a great positive. No pressure, just fun. Give him something to miss. Let the kids have good memories too, in case it does not work out. This was a win win.


So afterward, I just texted H to let him know that I had a good time, thanks for inviting me, and that he taught the boys so much and that they were getting really good. He texted back (on an hour delay because he said he was having phone issues), that he was Sorry he had not responded sooner and that the boys were getting good and that I was welcome and it was fun. I responded with a no problem, and to have a nice night. He replied you too.

ALL GOOD! ^^^ no expectations, just appreciation.

My DB coach gave me some tough advice to follow, but it worked well in our sitch.
She said to "Applaud loudly for the 1% of positives he does"...esp if he believed, right or wrong, that he didn't get enough positives in the marriage. Your challenge is to show him that marriage to you can be better/different than before.

Or he won't want back in. Nor would you, from the sounds of it. So I'd think you taking the first step (and the 2nd, and the next 100), would be a good model for him (and your sons, for that matter.)

At times I found this advice "Mother Teresa hard" to follow, but man it made a real difference. Also it diffused some things that might otherwise have gone right back into our scorekeeping war.



Afterward, I ended up going to my girlfriends house for dinner. Her and I also watched a couple of movies and hung out with her kids. It was fun.

What was nice about today over all was that I felt comfortable being me all day, I didn't have those overwhelming emotions that my life is in shambles, or the worries of what he was doing, or if anything I was doing was good or bad, and I just enjoyed myself. I didn't even get that negative mixed emotions feelings I usually get when (and after)I spend time with H. It was really stress free, drama free, anxiety free..

Well off to bed, another day down, the rest of my life to go....

YAY for a good day!

The awakenings begin one day. And then there is another day, and then another...

NO, not all in a row.

Our growth and our path is NOT linear, and neither is the MLCers or the WASs.

But there is movement in you. And that's a good thing.

[25yearsmlc]

here is a piece on detachment you might find helpful.


This was originally posted by Peanut.
============
II. Detachment
Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.

Attached, we take personally all that is said, not said, done and not done. Our ego gets wounded and we say or do things that undermine our goals.

We can NOT control the actions of another. We are, however, responsible for our own actions. We are responsible for our own happiness.

If we are detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love.

Met with love, we are in a position to diffuse the situation and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals. On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.

Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not the mind saying, "I am not getting what I want so I must pull back."

It is the natural acceptance of the reality that "I am alone responsible for how I act. I cannot control another person, but I can control how I respond to them."

[BRNR]

Hello 25 - I have seen you comment on other threads and have tried to follow your sitch, but man, there was a lot there, so I haven't read thouroughly.

Just to comment and touch on some of your points, which are for the most part accurately reflecting some of the things I feel or are on my mind...

Alone time- I absolutely enjoy the things you have mentioned, and more. Which is why I believe my PMA has improved to say the least. Sometimes I wonder if that is me being selfish, but that is a fleeting thought and goes away quickly...sleeping was something I didn't get much of and I find that I have slept a whole lot better, running errands are easier without children in tow, and just being able to sit and not be bothered is relaxing for me...(wether I am paying bills, trying to read, cleaning, or whatever I was always interrupted by someone or something).

GAL- I am having NO problems in doing this it seems...I have kept myself busy connecting with old and new people in my life and I have so many things that I want to do that are loosely planned for summer that I can't wait. And it does help take my mind off H, at first I would vent about my problems, but now, not so much. In fact, the girlfriends house that I went over to last night knows the sitch and we did not talk about it once.

MLC/WAS- this is exactly how I feel, it is both. I guess for me, I am thinking that in a WAS situation seems more finite in their decisions. I don't know, makes it more believable that they feel what they feel and are moving forward, and not just on the crazy train....

Detachment - I was working on this very fine and well until H decided that he didn't like not talking to me at all. Since then, (about a month ago) we talk/text/email about a lot...I am trying to work on this again which are my comments of moving forward, etc. To really truly feel that I will be alright no matter what happens....but every once in a while, something small (money, time with kids, OR, etc comes up in convo) takes me away from that. I am working on this though as I also feel it is necessary to help in having NO expectations.

Commitment- my opinion of why he is not committed one way or another is that it could be me, but I think it is "things" as well. The house, the kids, the stability we had in our lives financially, etc... He doesn't want to lose that. But I am not sure that I rank high on that list. But again this is just my opinion. I really don't know.

OW- well there is a lot to this, and I will tell you what I know. She was the first affair, ever. He says he is so ashamed as he never thought he would be that guy. In everything that was going on, he left me for OW, he fell in love with her and knew she was a better option than me and our children and life. From what I can gather, she didn't commit to him, and blew him off. His version is that she paid him a lot of attention and affection and then stopped doing it so he cut her loose. I don't know the hairy details, but I do find it funny...for lots of reasons.
1-he says that is what I did, lack of affection and attention. He is right to some degree, but for me life got in the way, kids responsibilities, and such...and I know, NO excuse, but it is what happened and I know that in my current/future relationships I will need to improve that...but for me, it was after many years of marriage...we were together for 15, he lost that with her in a few months...funny.
2-She was no prize....26, divorced, her own child....not sure what he was thinking.
3- She was truly only a freak in the sheets (his own admission) something I am not. Now don't get me wrong, we had sex, a lot of it, but I had a lot of self esteem issues, (especially with my possible breast cancer issues) and I think that held me back a lot in that aspect.
4-I believe she cut him loose, and not the other way around
5-I think they still are f$&@ buddies, but not sure
6-they no longer work together, she got a new job, but he says he doesn't know where. I know this is a lie...

I don't want to punish him, I don't want anything for him good or bad honestly. I know I shouldn't say that, but he is selfish right now, and only has his own needs on his forefront. I am mad because he made the decisions to end our marriage so fast without trying to work our problems out or even considering who would be hurt, but he has to live with those regrets, I don't feel the need to punish him, about anything really...I believe in Karma...

But 25, your insight and words are spot on I do believe. I feel and think a lot of those things and know I will be happy no matter what. Do I hope it is with H, absolutely or else why would I be here on these forums...but sometimes even the LBS needs to figure things out too...I don't have all the answers and am stumbling along trying to find them...and not answers about H so much, but answers on me, my behavior, my role in the end of the relationship, my happiness, my future. I realize that while he says differently, my whole life was devoted to him, and nothing was devoted to myself. I am trying to make me happy right now.

Well, going to enjoy the rest of my day...I didn't do a lot of the things I was going to do yesterday, so time to get to it....

Thanks 25- keep dissecting my post for me, it helps to hear other voices on my thoughts.

[BRNR]

Awww man...just venting.

I called to talk to my boys this mornign since they were with H all weekend and my S9 didn't want to talk to me. so when he got home a couple of hours ago, we started talking baout it and he said that he didn't want to talk to me because he was with his Dad...I told him that was okay, and that I wasn't trying to interrupt, I just wanted to say love you and say good morning. the conversation got more intense with him saying that he is trying to get Dad to come home and us back together again because he doesn't like this situation of us being split up and him having to spend time with each of us at different times :.(

Man this kid knows how to rip my heart out and make me feel like a horrible person. I told him that I would do everything that I could to make him happy, but even if I tried my hardest I couldn't promise anything...so sad.

Tonight I will cry my eyes out...and really dig deeper for the strength to continue on with trying to get my marriage back. I sometimes forget that they have these grown up feelings too, and probably feel worse than I do...

[25yearsmlc]

OUCH...man that hurts...

Here's what my MC and DB coach both said, regarding the issue of children and the possibility of divorce.

1) Unless you are certain, 100% that a divorce is happening, say "I sure hope not" when they ask about it. Also say something like "B/c I have loved your dad a long time" or "we're having a very rough time but I know we both love you so much"...and if THEY identify a bad behavior of your h's, how he mistreats you, etc. you can say "that did hurt, but there are a lot of things I still love about your dad b/c he has lots of good qualities."

2) If you ARE SURE of a divorce, then wait til it's closer in time to happening and not a year down the road. You can say "it seems to be happening but won't be 'done' legally until 'x'..."

No matter what, it's key to do the following:

3) Stress to the boys what will NOT change in their lives, no matter what happens.

Meaning, if you know you'll remain in the house, or the same area, stress to them that their friends/school and neighborhood will remain the same. Not all of their lives will be turned upside down. They won't be on the streets...they'll have two places to visit and sleep some nights, but they still have TWO parents who love them.

Whatever changes happen, you'll minimize as well as possible, For instance, if you do move (reasonably close) then tell the boys that you'll drive them over to see their friends, and so they won't lose everything in their lives.

If you must move far away, say, to be closer to family, stress that they'll be able to see and bond with their cousins more and see grandma more, etc.

Hopefully, as little as possible will change for them.

Good luck!

[BRNR]

Thanks 25,

I am already following this advice regarding the kids/separation/divorce...I don't say much because I don't know much. But it is still hard to see/hear. And I really enforced #3 since the very beginning and we talk about that a lot. Bottom line is they still don't like it...and I can't say I blame them.

[BRNR]

Having a moment...I am listening to music and just heard a song that hit home...man leaving home so he could get his "needs and desires" met by another woman...Ughh! I did change the station....

But it is things like this that I think about and wonder why I would take him back even if he wanted to come back....I often wonder if I would be compared to OW and if that would leave him "dis-satisfied", especially since he told me "she was a freak and let me do what I wanted"...

This thought is almost abusive to me...and the fact that I feel like I am losing my love for him bit by bit doesn't help either...

I am so disgusted right now....

[job]

I know that this is very difficult for you, but you have to stop giving the ow room space in your head...she's not paying rent, so toss her out. She is a symptom of your h's mlc, nothing more. What they have is nothing more than being f@ck buddies. It is a very shallow relationship at best. He needs someone to pal around w/because they can't stand to be alone. They are like teenagers who have to have their adoring buddies around them to feel important. The ow is nothing like you because mlcers generally affair down and believe me, she's no prize in any way, shape or form. You are far, far better than she is. Sure they do some comparing along the way, but when they are further along in their crisis they begin to see that you are better than what he ended up being with.

May I suggest you do a search for LoisB's threads and read what she's been going through since she came to the board. We have had discussions on her threads about the ow and my advice was the same to her as it was to you...kick the ow out of your head...she's nothing and you don't need to give her the power to ruin your thoughts or feelings. Take back your power and leave her in the gutter.

Keep the focus on you, your health and your children.

[AJM]

I agree with Snodderly, both in principle and from experience (OM in my case, but same concept).

AJ