Cat, I agree the everything you said. I need to just note the effect of something I do without inferring too much from it. Its too early.
I do tend to try to explain things. But its because I'm really getting a lot of FLAK for this! And I know I wasn't hearing things with Laurie because we talked about it extensively. She said if you know OM is not meeting her intellectual needs, then magnify that when you can. When she engages while with him, engage back.
This is excellent Cat:
Quote:
You didn't convince your W to fall in love with you all those years ago.
She saw something in you that she liked.
Instead of trying to "convince" her of something, like all of the compliments that you referenced that didn't seem to work because you were trying to get her to believe what you did, just SHOW her.
By being a good father. By being a good man. By not having an agenda.
Absolutely! She saw that I have ambitions, I am driven, I am destined to succeed etc.. She saw a person who is genuine, who is loyal, who is funny but can also be serious when needed, and if warm and loving. That was me 14 years ago.
You know the theory of sex rank? I know it doesn't really fit with DBing but it is interesting. The author on the website "married mans sex life" makes an interesting anology on the importance of success for a woman. He makes the analogy with a football team.
He says We all cheer our team even through a losing season. In the off season though, we want to see changes being made so that next season is better. After too many losing seasons in a row, we don't support our team anymore. he says that women are attracted to a spouse who has potential to succeed financially and that is programmed from the hunter gatherer days...the male who can "gather" the most, or at least "enough".
We had several losing seasons in a row as far as my business and finances. I have written about this before but I just want to touch on it briefly. Things where good then went sour in business. Then, EVERY time something seems to be changing for the better I (and also W) were let down.
When my partner and I opened a second retail store things were supposed to get better. The economy got worse and with TWO partners halfing the money, the net gain in profits did not change much. When I finally got my partner out, I was supposed to have access to a double pay check. Well competition in the market made that not happen since we had wasted so much time with my partners drug addiction that our business needed an overhaul now.
So every step of the way, we would have huge optimism for the success of our team, only to have it shattered. Eventually she began to give up. In the last few months she said things like "I guess we are not going to be getting rich from your business huh?". They were said jokingly but it is a window into what was on her mind.
That is partly why I am workign hard at fixing my business and expanding now. It is a huge part of what attracted her to me when I was still a college boy. Big dreams, big aspirations, and the motivation and ego needed to get the job done. I lost all of that in the last few years. Time to get that back!
Me, H-34 now 38 W-32 now 35 T-13 now 18 years M-6 now 9 Daughter 3 years now 7 Bomb 11/27/12 - OM 1 year in house separation Reconciliation 12/2013. Healed now 2017
I looked up the definition of the word convince...
synonyms included persuade, cajole, talk into...
It is something that a salesperson does...
It is a word that makes me uncomfortable and possibly other posters as well.
You didn't convince your W to fall in love with you all those years ago.
She saw something in you that she liked.
Correct. There was (among other things) . . . ATTRACTION. And nothing KILLS attraction more than moving over into "gay boyfriend" status with her.
I would urge you to consider something, SM, and that is this: what makes you think your wife will feel safe in the future relationship with you, if you pursue her and supplicate to her when she's with OM? She may LIKE the attention, and maybe even be more "friendly" toward you in the SHORT term . . . but make no mistake, it will:
a. KILL attraction, and
b. NOT make her feel safe to be with someone that would allow such a thing.
And this doesn't even take into consideration what this will do to your OWN self-esteem.
Starsky I agree with you! GH31 also suggested that I need to be firm as well as many others.
I am going to schedule a coaching session earlier than planned to discuss these points with laurie.
Me, H-34 now 38 W-32 now 35 T-13 now 18 years M-6 now 9 Daughter 3 years now 7 Bomb 11/27/12 - OM 1 year in house separation Reconciliation 12/2013. Healed now 2017
You know the theory of sex rank? I know it doesn't really fit with DBing but it is interesting. The author on the website "married mans sex life" makes an interesting anology on the importance of success for a woman. He makes the analogy with a football team.
He says We all cheer our team even through a losing season. In the off season though, we want to see changes being made so that next season is better. After too many losing seasons in a row, we don't support our team anymore.
Do you know what we in Tampa Bay Bucaneers land call these sorts of fans?
Fair weathered.
I love my team. I love my team whether they win or lose. I actually became a fan when they were the losingest team in history. Wearing Creamsicle uniforms. Sure the Superbowl win was wonderful and I pray that someday they will have another, but I am still a fan and will be until the day that I die.
This may simply be my thinking as a woman, but honestly, I think the idea of sex rank, is bunk.
What do I want from a man, what keeps him attractive to me?
Someone I can respect, who respects himself.
Someone with confidence in himself.
Someone who makes an effort in life. Someone who knows that eventually things will get better as long as they don't quit.
The list is much longer but I don't want to say anything that will set you onto a different tangent.
I also know that those things ebb and flow with time and circumstance but I am aware that they don't have to completly go away.
The OM may not be much as far as a provider and what not, but it sounds like he does have the belief in himself that he can be something great.
And that is a quality that many of the male vets around here have found within themselves. Many of them are posting to you. And they realize it is how they feel about themselves that has created that attractivness that draws women toward them.
So, your GAL activities? Things that will improve your self esteem? Things that will make you more attractive?
What are those things?
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
GALing I have been spending a lot of time with my D3. I am working to finish projects around the house which was one of my W comlaints. I am reading an MBA book to better my business skills.
I have gone out with friends a few times but need to do it more often. I also havent met new people. I just dont really care ti know so many people really. I like to read etc.. not hang out with people and make small talk. I need to make an effort a this though.
As far as self esteem, I have been keeping myself looking good. I am also working to make my business more successful becuase that is a HUGE source of self esteem for me. It just saw happens that my W is attracted to my drive and determination to succeed so that is a bonus. I am generally a much more confident and pleasant person when I feel successful.
To be more attractive I have been working out and dressing btter. Wife has always been a fashion person and I not at all. So I am trying to bridge that gap but honestly its not easy. Fashion is definiteoy not natural to me.
Me, H-34 now 38 W-32 now 35 T-13 now 18 years M-6 now 9 Daughter 3 years now 7 Bomb 11/27/12 - OM 1 year in house separation Reconciliation 12/2013. Healed now 2017
So I don't have any new stuff to report to Laurie. Turns out my W was only at OM's for one night because he was actually going to be in our town today.
She called me to ask about D3 tuition check and then said she is picking up D3 and heading to her best girlfriend's house. So I asked her who is there and she said her friend (OM's sister in law), her husband, the OM, and the parents of OM.
I said ABSOLUTELY NOT! I am leaving work now to go pickup D3 myself. She is not going with you to hang out with OM. W tried to tell me it was so D3 could play with her friends daughter who is D2 and is my D play buddy sometimes.
She was arguing that OM is there at his brothers house only to install some lights and some fans and he will not even have time to hang out with her and D3. So i told her why do you have to take D3 there TODAY if its not so he can see her or vice versa? You have the chance to go to your friends house ANY day but you don't! You want to take her there today?
Then she said I haven't been able to spend any time with D3 since day before yesterday, so I told her you have the chance to pick her up now from school and spend the rest of the evening with her. It is up to you if you want to take that opportunity.
I stated this calmly and with but but firmly. I told her you should respect my wishes as the father of the child, just like I am respecting your wishes. I also told her I think it is better you do not introduce D3 to anyone you are dating until it is serious enough, and that I would do the same. She said that I will need to get over it at some point because OM is not going anywhere, and I said I really didn't have to, but if it was to get serious enough I would think about it. <--is that one too much?
So in the end she said "Are you going to pick up D3 when school is up?". I said "Yes I am. and then I'm going to take her to the park to play". she said OK then, and we said our good byes and hung up.
Less than 1 minute later, I get a message that says "Nevermind. I am picking up D3. I'm not going over there." then 5 minutes later "I will go after D3 is in bed". I still have not answered those last two messages.
I stood up to her and didn't bow down with my boundary. She is NOT to spend time with OM and that is that. I am proud of myself. And she just said "OK" when normally she would argue much more. I expected her to say "She is my daughter too and I can take her wherever I want" but she didn't.
Feels good.
Me, H-34 now 38 W-32 now 35 T-13 now 18 years M-6 now 9 Daughter 3 years now 7 Bomb 11/27/12 - OM 1 year in house separation Reconciliation 12/2013. Healed now 2017
Good for you!! See how setting a boundary doesn't have the disasterous effect you imagine. But more importantly, see how you felt about you!
I am so sorry this happened, it must hurt. But see how all your mind reading into why she stays so short with OM or talking with you why she is there is so pointless? She was planning on taking your D around him. She just said he isn't going anywhere anytime. Now, who the heck knows if that is true or not. She was just mad you didn't roll over and allow her to do whatever she wanted.
M: 9 yrs T: 13 yrs H:34 Me:35, S4, D2, S 7 months Dday 11/12-PA & multiple PAs Dbing 12/12 S 1/13 7/13 H moved back in basement. 8/13 #3 born 10/13 still cheating 10/13 He moves across country, I file for D
Yes you are right. The one night turned out ti be balony.
But valentines day and a bunch of saturdays I will take
She cant afford to rock the boat, literally. And she made the right choice by not taking D3 over there. When I told her it was her choice whether to spend time with D3 or not, she was frustrated I think. She wanted her cake and to eat it
So now what? Back to DBing. Ladies and gentlemen this is going to be a long ride.
Me, H-34 now 38 W-32 now 35 T-13 now 18 years M-6 now 9 Daughter 3 years now 7 Bomb 11/27/12 - OM 1 year in house separation Reconciliation 12/2013. Healed now 2017
I'm sorry your mindreading turned out to be mistaken, and I'm really glad to see you draw a line somewhere and observe that it's not being mean, it's just expressing what is and is not ok with you and what that means in terms of action. I think that is worth sharing with Laurie for feedback.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
Whats funny is I thought she was mad because I stood up to her but when I got home she acted fine...better than fine.
She asked how my days was, how work went, she was making homemade brocolli cheddar soup. Then she set the table in the formal dinning room Instead of infront of the tv like we always do.
Still wen to her friends house to hang out with OM but not until she did all the dishes and cleaned up the kitchen.
It sure is odd dealing with a WAW!
Me, H-34 now 38 W-32 now 35 T-13 now 18 years M-6 now 9 Daughter 3 years now 7 Bomb 11/27/12 - OM 1 year in house separation Reconciliation 12/2013. Healed now 2017
