Compliments & Passive Aggressiveness..Work to do!

[AnotherStander]

Your W is very likely in a position where she doesn't allow herself to accept your compliments. That is not to say that she is not "hearing" them. Regardless, words of affirmation DO have an effect on people, especially people who have that as a primary love language.

I have had a rough time with WOA too, as you well know. I have really been trying to make an effort to work on that. Some of the things I have been considering is as follows

1) try to make your compliments specific. I had NO idea how important that was until it was pointed out on my thread, but think about it. If someone at work (just for sake of the conversation lets say you are a coal miner) were to say to you, "good job", it would be nice....but not that big of a deal. You would probably go back to work digging for coal, maybe with a smile on your face, maybe not. However if they were to say, "good job on that last bucket load. You always have been the best pick axer on the entire crew. It is amazing how fast you can dig in this rocky soil". That is a little more specific, and with no doubt, you are going to be proud of hearing that. More than likely, you are going to try to pick axe even harder because you like having someone notice your special abilities. Without a doubt, you want to hear more words of affimation from them.

2)compliments can be about ANYTHING: I had a hard time trying to compliment my wife, because I always thought that meant I was supposed to say she was "pretty". That's not the case. You can compliment your spouse on absolutely anything. Take a moment and REALLY THINK about what your W is good at. Maybe she dresses impecably? Maybe she is an excellent decorator? maybe she really knows how to fit a lot of your stuff in a storage closet? Who knows, maybe she is an excellent driver. Compliment her on your low insurance rates....haha anything, but be sincere and make it hit home with HER.

3)Don't try too hard. Once we figure out how to compliment effectively, it is a natural reaction to try it alot. We want to hone our skills and see the reactions. Don't over do it! That can become really fake sounding, needy, weak and even pressuring to your spouse. I have made a point of trying to compliment my W just once or maybe twice during an interaction. therefore, I don't feel I need to hit it out of the park every time with a bunch of HUGE insightful compliments. I just give her a compliment, make it specific to her, and move on. With time, she will want more and more compliments, and I will be prepared to give them to her, when the time comes.

4) Don't expect a reaction. This one is really important for you, SM34! When we expect a reaction, it completely throws the validity of our compliment out the window. Don't hold out for a reply, don't stare her down looking for something to spark in her eye. Don't be upset if she blows it off like it was no big deal. Just compliment her, be sincere and move on with the conversation. Don't dwell on it or wait for a response. Right now, your W (and mine as well), doesn't want to give you a response. To be honest, they probably HATE that we are complimenting in the first place. The reason being, they feel if we would have done it years ago we very well might not be in this situation with the relationship. That simple fact just pisses our wives off! However, don't think for a second that the compliments are not being heard. They hear them. They just aren't carrying as much weight as they could in the minds of our WAS, at least not now.

5)You can give a compliment that pulls your spouse in. This is the approach I am trying to get better at. For instance you can say something like, "I love your new hair color. It really pulls out your eyes. Do you notice people mentioning how blue your eyes are now?" This is a great compliment because you are flattering her new hair color which she is undoubtedly proud of, and you are also noticing her eyes. She will KNOW that you are looking at her and being sincere. You are not just saying generic thing like,"hey good job". The best part of this compliment is you are also enlisting her to engage you. You are literally making the compliment become part of the conversation and putting ALL of the focus on your wifes great features. That is extremely flattering.


Of course, our W's will probably not reply in a super positive manner to our words of affimration, becasue they don't want us to flatter them. They don't want to acknowledge us being nice and sincere. They don't want us to be a great husband. They want us to be jerks, so it supports their negative outlook... so they can move on....so they can leave. Don't show her that guy. Make her realize things can be better and that she is making a wrong decision. Be THAT guy!

^^^^That is some really, really great stuff and worth seeing again in total

SM, pay particular attention to number 4. You've got to drop the expectations!! It's clear from your posts that you're still scrutinizing your W for some kind of response every time you do anything, but especially with the compliments. Just pay her the compliments and move on, don't stare her down waiting for her to say or do something in response, because that will make it seem disingenuous. Sometimes a compliment paid in passing is the most effective of all. You say it and move on with zero expectations.

Then I keep telling her "Babe you are so beautiful. Other women would KILL to have your skin and eyes, and your perfect hair. You can go natural and look beautiful, and all the other women envy you for it.". You know what her response would be? "Are you kidding me? What about this blemish right here?" pointing to only microscopic mark on her face. "Look at my eyes.I look like I havent slept in days, and may hair is a mess!".

Maybe you didn't mean it this way, but the above sounds like you're saying "So why should I bother complimenting her, because she's just going to deny the compliment is valid anyway." MANY people react to compliments by trying to deflect them (I'm a real pro at this), but they still LOVE getting the compliments. Again, drop the expectations of what you think her reaction should be!!

So thats why complimenting got hard for me. If I over played the compliment, she would say I was just saying that. If i under played it, she would say well don't look too excited about it. I can't win.

DROP THE EXPECTATIONS!!!!! It's not a contest, it's not about winning and losing.

I'm sure 5 Love Languages was mentioned somewhere in your other thread, do you have it? Have you read it? It'll help a lot with learning about how to be specific in your compliments.

[SM34]

Gabbysmom if you are reading this I just wanted to comment on the fact that you don't understand why my coach would have me messaging W while she is with OM. I think I may have the answer but it is ONLY MY ANALYSIS and I might be wrong.

I think the position you speak of which is to take a stance and say no messaging with me while you are with OM is to be taken with a spouse who was CAUGHT in an affair, and doesn't seem to want to leave the marriage or the affair. The fact that they were caught and didn't CONFESS shows they maybe didnt want to get caught, and they are still interested in the marriage. Fence sitting as they say.

Now that may be what my W is doing, we speculate that this is what she is doing because there is no active effort to file for divorce, get a job, move out, or any of that. BUT, we have to go by what she said and did.

SHE was honest with me at the start and told me about OM. She said she was confused, and needed to try this out. She said she had been unhappy for a while etc.. But then after some pressuring from me (before I read DR) she changed the tune to wanting a D.

So I think Laurie is treating this like an exit Affair. A spouse who wants out of the relationship, whether we think she truely does or not. I need to work on convincing my W that I can be there for her emotionally, have her open up to me more, have her let her guard down and be comfortable talking to me.

Someone once said on my old thread that the best situation for me would be if W started to tell me about issues in her A, or her "new" relationship as she says. But she will only do that if she views me as a friend, someone she is comfortable talking to. In any case, in my next phone session I will make sure I ask Laurie about this.

[SM34]

Cat

Yes I do have a tendency to look for signs. I spent this whole weekend reminding myself it is too early, and that W's A with OM will go through ups and downs. There will be periods of heavy texting etc.. and periods of not.

I was getting a little better at not looking for signs until my coach asked me to try light touch, engaging W in intellectual conversation, and "note" the changes or effects. So "note" is similar to watch for signs I guess.

[SM34]

AnotherStander.

Another awesome and informative post from you! You certainly do make things clearer, and in a friendly way. Thanks for all your help!

SM, pay particular attention to number 4. You've got to drop the expectations!! It's clear from your posts that you're still scrutinizing your W for some kind of response every time you do anything, but especially with the compliments.

I am working on stopping this. I need to focus on being the best I can be, and let her have her space to work out what she is doing in her mind.

You know Starsky told me that the hardest thing he had to do is watch his wife make a huge mistake and watch her destroy her life. It is hard to watch that happen to the person you love the most in life. But as Starsky said, it is a necessary part of the journey. SHE has to realize it was not solving HER problems before she will be willing to work on the M.

Maybe you didn't mean it this way, but the above sounds like you're saying "So why should I bother complimenting her, because she's just going to deny the compliment is valid anyway."....Sometimes a compliment paid in passing is the most effective of all. You say it and move on with zero expectations.

I really didn't mean I will stop trying to compliment. I know deep inside they are getting through to her, even if only a little. But I just need to not be waiting for some reaction.

I'm sure 5 Love Languages was mentioned somewhere in your other thread, do you have it? Have you read it? It'll help a lot with learning about how to be specific in your compliments.

Yes I do have that book. Read it a while back at the beginning of my sitch but need to read it again now. I think I skimmed this WOA part because I focused on what I thought was W primary LL which is physical affection. I now understand that the physical affection on got to be a problem, and got moved up in importance on her list of needs, when the words of affirmation and compiments were not coming in enough.

I'm going to reread it this week, and focus on the parts that relate to compliments.

[cbtdad]

SM,
I'm fairly new here, but I've been following your thread.
What is your DB coach saying about working on you?
It seems that you are so completely caught up in what your W is doing that you are having a hard time moving forward with your life. I've learned one thing in my sitch. If I continue to do the same things and cr the same ways I will get the same results. Like the definition of insanity, "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"

[AnotherStander]

Mother in law, who was a WAW herself 20 years ago, has told me before that the more you engage W, and the more you do stuff with her like go out to a concert or for dinner, the more it will put a strain on the Affair. her AP (who is now her husband) still has insecurities because the relationship did not start the way it should.

So your W's mother walked out on her H, had an affair and married the OP? Interesting.

W is on her way back now from OM. Shortest stay yet at just one night.

I don't understand why a shorter stay at OM's is viewed as some kind of positive step. Maybe OM had to be in line at GameStop for the release of a new video game, so your W had to cut the visit short. To me spending the night with OM again = fail.

[Tallula]

I think the position you speak of which is to take a stance and say no messaging with me while you are with OM is to be taken with a spouse who was CAUGHT in an affair, and doesn't seem to want to leave the marriage or the affair. The fact that they were caught and didn't CONFESS shows they maybe didnt want to get caught, and they are still interested in the marriage. Fence sitting as they say.

Ok, I don't really see the difference or why you read so much into it. My H confessed. My H has actually ended his A. But he still wanted to be FB friends with her and not be transparent. Yep, fence sitting.

[quote-sm34]
Now that may be what my W is doing, we speculate that this is what she is doing because there is no active effort to file for divorce, get a job, move out, or any of that. BUT, we have to go by what she said and did.
[/quote]

There is no MAY BE about it. She is fence sitting.

SHE was honest with me at the start and told me about OM. She said she was confused, and needed to try this out. She said she had been unhappy for a while etc.. But then after some pressuring from me (before I read DR) she changed the tune to wanting a D.

My H confessed to. They are both still cheaters. Doesn't matter how you slice it. She is asking you to allow her to carry on an R with someone else while you wait around.

So I think Laurie is treating this like an exit Affair. A spouse who wants out of the relationship, whether we think she truely does or not. I need to work on convincing my W that I can be there for her emotionally, have her open up to me more, have her let her guard down and be comfortable talking to me.

That is what I'm working on to. You can still do that without being available to be there for her while she is staying at the OMs. The only reason I personally think that should be a boundary FOR YOU (doesn't need to be spoken to her, just don't text back a convo), is because then you spin and take this a some sign that 1.trouble is brewing 2. She is moving more towards you . etc. It makes you spin and look for a sign. Ask us if it's a sign, convince yourself it is. All the while, you are focused on W.

Someone once said on my old thread that the best situation for me would be if W started to tell me about issues in her A, or her "new" relationship as she says. But she will only do that if she views me as a friend, someone she is comfortable talking to. In any case, in my next phone session I will make sure I ask Laurie about this.

OMG, I would absolutely NOT allow your WIFE to talk to you about her R with OM. For real? That is just plain hurtful and disrepectful. I would certainly hope that she doesn't. I really hope that you would not allow that. What in the world are you going to ask Laurie about this?!

[cat04]

I realize that you want to explain everything to everyone, and that seems to just be your nature...

Truth is, me, Starsky, Gabbysmom, we don't really have to understand why Laurie has you doing anything...as long as you are comfortable with it...

I would like you to think about something...

I looked up the definition of the word convince...

synonyms included persuade, cajole, talk into...

It is something that a salesperson does...

It is a word that makes me uncomfortable and possibly other posters as well.

You didn't convince your W to fall in love with you all those years ago.

She saw something in you that she liked.

Instead of trying to "convince" her of something, like all of the compliments that you referenced that didn't seem to work because you were trying to get her to believe what you did, just SHOW her.

By being a good father. By being a good man. By not having an agenda.

"Noting" changes and mindreading, speculating, and analzying are very different.

You did A, B happened. That is a note.

You did A, and B happened and C might be happening, possibly because of XYZ or A, is analyzing.

Read the 5 LL. Take the test in the back. Don't simply assume because you read something and it jived with something you heard that that is the answer. I was honestly very surprised when my results came out differently from what I expected them to be...Again...emotion versus data...

[SM34]

Thanks for the quick responses guys! Let me address some things.

cbtdad, I'm actually doing something completely different to what I did during our marriage, and during the 2 months after BD. I am showing my wife that I am capable of emotional support, I am giving her the pursuing that she needs in order to feel special etc..

As far as what I am working on for myself, well being emotionally available is one of them. But also working on my 180s which i outlined earlier.

AnotherStander:

Yes my MIL was a WAS who married her AP. BUT, it was COMPLETELY different situation. The problem is my W is seeing that as proof that it CAN work. Here are the deferences:

1) MIL got pregnant at 17 and FIL is catholic and married her so the child (my wife) would not be an illegitimate child. We got married 9 years after dating and living with each and buying a house together.

2) MIL was unhappy the entire time in the marriage. FIL was verbally abusive to her, and she tried to commit suicide TWICE. My W has had none of that.

3) MIL was sexually abused by her step father when she was young and that messed her up completely. My W had somewhat of a stable home growing up.

4) MIL and her AP knew each other since they were little kids. He was almost FAMILY to her. They were neighbors, family were friends, and she knew him very VERY well and knew exactly what she was leaving her marriage for. My W does not know this OM at all, she assumes that it worked for her MOM so it will work for her.

My MIL has had this same discussion with my W the day after BD. She told her all of these things. But W doesn't want to listen to anyone right now, and if you are on the "wrong" side of her decision, she has already kicked you out of her life.

As far as shorter stay with OM, its not a huge sign. But Laurie did want me to note if that happens, because it might indicate she is choosing how to spend her time a little differently than before. It is all relative to the obssesive nature of the first 3 weeks of the A. She was over there ALL THE TIME. She messaged him ALL THE TIME. She was over there for 4 out of 7 nights in a week. To be down to just one night I think is a good thing right?

[SM34]

Tallula thanks for the comments.

Yes I do believe my W is fence sitting. I think she pretends she is completely done, but if she was I think she would be taking steps towards that.

She is a strong willed person and when she has her mind set on something she gets it done. I don't see her "getting things done".

As far as her talking to me about the A and OM, no absolutely not! If she even mentions him I remind her that I do not want to hear about it.

When I said I was going to ask Laurie, I meant I was going to ask Laurie why she is having me engage W when she is with OM. I should have started a new paragraph before adding that statement because now it looks like I am asking laurie about what to do if W talks to me about R with OM. I already know what I would do! I would tell her NOT to talk to me about it!

Although Laurie already told me the answer to why I should engage her, there has been significant surprise on the board and so I just want to re hear it from Laurie.