There is a way of gaining more confidence in his fidelity short of a PI.
I was the cheater. This is what I had to do to regain the very beginning of my wife's trust. I will have to do this the rest of my life. If I breach it she will have EVERY RIGHT to suspect me.
1) A complete openness to any question she wants to ask about my infidelity and my current daily going's on.
2) Full access to ALL my communication. Email, text, phone, IM at any time she desires. That means I give her all my pass codes. She has the right to pick up my smart phone at any time and read my emails, texts and look at phone numbers. (I can't tell you how relieving it is to not have to worry that she'll find something)
3) Participating in ongoing joint counselling. (It is now focused not on my infidelity, but how to improve our marriage) Not only is it helping our marriage, but it gives her confidence that I am not cheating because it would be impossible to continue the deceit in that setting.
If your husband isn't willing to live with this structure then I think you have every right to question his honesty.
I believe he owes your mutual relationship this level of transparency not necessarily as a penance for his transgressions, but because that's what people who love and respect each other do.
I was the cheater. This is what I had to do to regain the very beginning of my wife's trust. I will have to do this the rest of my life. If I breach it she will have EVERY RIGHT to suspect me.
1) A complete openness to any question she wants to ask about my infidelity and my current daily going's on.
2) Full access to ALL my communication. Email, text, phone, IM at any time she desires. That means I give her all my pass codes. She has the right to pick up my smart phone at any time and read my emails, texts and look at phone numbers. (I can't tell you how relieving it is to not have to worry that she'll find something)
3) Participating in ongoing joint counselling. (It is now focused not on my infidelity, but how to improve our marriage) Not only is it helping our marriage, but it gives her confidence that I am not cheating because it would be impossible to continue the deceit in that setting.
If your husband isn't willing to live with this structure then I think you have every right to question his honesty.
I believe he owes your mutual relationship this level of transparency not necessarily as a penance for his transgressions, but because that's what people who love and respect each other do.
Brilliant Post!!!
You including a cheating spouse's [u]openness to TALK about their past infidelity as part of the full transparency agreement[/u] is worth five stars ALONE! This is great stuff.
Ok, I talked to an attorney yesterday; and I talked to my DB coach this morning.
The attorney said that since we are a community property state, all assets would be divided either equally or equitably (for things that can’t be divided down the middle). This would include my part-ownership of our company; the company would be appraised and I would get half the value of that. (I already knew the part about division of assets, but I never thought of our company itself as being an asset.)
Since this is a long-term marriage, and since I am not at an age when I would be able to go out and obtain a suitable job, H would be responsible for spousal support, either permanently or until I remarried. The amount would be determined by the court and would be based on our income in recent past years – he could not get out of it by quitting his job in order to leave me without income (which is one of the things that he threatens when he is in a bad mood). So, that is good news, it sort of levels the playing field.
He would not have any obligation towards my mother, so I would need to cover that from the spousal support, but I could probably handle that.
The conversation with my DB coach:
I need to realize that I don’t have any influence over him. We can’t change other people; we can only change our own feelings, attitudes and actions.
The only way I can be sure if he is seeing other women, would be to to catch him redhanded by hiring a PI, which would cost 5K or more, and that’s way more than I could afford. And if the PI *didn’t* find anything, I still wouldn’t know for sure – e.g. maybe the PI followed him on one of the weekends when H *wasn’t* entertaining “guests”. If H is meeting with OWs, then it is sporadic, not constant.
But I shouldn’t let it bother me that he was nicer to the OWs. I need to realize that he could easily be that way to them because they never requested anything from him, and never talked to him about relationship problems. Or if any of them did, they would be out like a hot potato.
Similarly, I shouldn’t ask myself “what did they give him that I didn’t” because his relationships with them were a fantasy, not real life. His attraction to the candy jar is not due to anything that I did or didn’t do; it’s his own weakness. (I’m not saying I’m perfect, everyone has faults, but I’ve been a darn good wife, business partner, and support system for him. And we both know it.)
I need to accept that he does not want any suggestions or advice from me. Not only does he refuse to be transparent, but even when I tell him that I will not pressure him about that, and just want him to be empathetic, or to read a book about what an unfaithful spouse needs to do to fix what he broke – he goes ballistic over that too. So, since he isn’t listening, I should stop asking him for anything concerning our relationship. (“Stop going down cheeseless tunnels.”) And I should not take it personally or blame myself, I should consider his behavior as a sort of disability on his part, like an emotional handicap. Just as I wouldn’t expect him to do certain things if he had a physical handicap, I should stop expecting him to do things that he is not capable of, due to his emotional handicap.
The goal for now is not to ask him to be reassuring or transparent, because he won’t; but to get him to be nice to me. That is a realistic, “baby-step” goal at this point.
Therefore I should totally back off for at least a month, not share how I feel or ask for reassurances, not ask him to read books, not expect him to change or meet my needs in any way. I don’t need to boycott him, I can treat him like a “friendly neighbor” and have good times if the opportunity arises, e.g. see movies together, eat meals together, go out to dinner. But not to expect anything from him and only do what I feel like doing. Not to do anything specially for him or to go out of my way for him in anything. Even if he asks me for a favor, I should only do it if I feel like it. Otherwise I can say, “I’m busy… ” etc.
I should stop wondering about whether he is seeing OWs. Maybe he is, but maybe he is not. If he is, then I will find out sooner or later. In the meantime, worrying about it is just causing aggravation for *me*. So I should stop wasting my energy with worry about “what if” and just let time tell.
I should GAL and do things I enjoy doing, and take personal responsibility for healing myself. Not to expect him to do it. And to see that as a strength on my part. (An analogy I once heard – “to plant my own garden and not wait for him to bring me flowers.”)
Detachment doesn’t mean boycotting him, but detaching myself from the feelings, so that I don’t care about what he is doing. And really, even if I would file for divorce, I would still have to do that. So I might as well do it anyway.
Right now I don’t feel that a divorce would be beneficial for me in any way. The information from the attorney is certainly a load off my shoulders – it means I do not have to base my decision on a feeling of dependency or “being stuck”. It means that if I would reach a point where I feel that being divorced would be more beneficial for me than remaining in the marriage, I do not have to be afraid to do it. But right now I feel that divorce would not give me any advantages. It would not cause him to be nice to me, it would make that worse. It would not solve the problem of him (possibly) seeing OWs; it would make it easier for him. So how does that benefit me exactly? Right, because Prince Charming is waiting around the corner. If I happen to meet him, I can make a decision then. In the meantime, there are certain social and other benefits to remaining in the marriage. So there is no rush to dissolve it.
Life isn’t perfect. Everything has pros and cons. And in every situation, it’s important to weigh these pros and cons and then choose the best route. It’s not a matter of “fear”; it’s a matter of doing what is most beneficial for me at any given time. And right now, GAL and detachment, and possibly repairing the marriage from inside, are more beneficial for me than rushing into a divorce. So that is my direction at this point.
kml, good suggestions, and I will do those things (except for the PI which I wouldn't be able to do right now).
shelly and l'infidele, logically you are right, but he is not acting logically. I am first going to try the route suggested by my DB coach, and keep the other option in reserve.
shelly and l'infidele - yes, I totally agree. but after the conversation with my DB coach, I basically went back to the chapters in DR about how to change the marriage, and what if the spouse is not ready yet to make the change. and the answer is - set "baby step" goals, etc. so I am going to work from that direction before giving up and going the other route. I agree that his behavior is suspicious. but he is not all bad. there are good things that he does too. so after 40 years I am going to make every effort to repair our marriage, before giving up.
