You need to back off for yourself. This is confusing and painful for you. It's not to punish him, and if it makes him mad, you can be sorry that he feels that way.
He left you. Why is he concerned with whether you moved on or are dating? Just answer direct questions with direct answers, "no, I'm not dating." "yes, I'm moving on with my life. I wish things were different but I'm respecting your decision." "no, I find it confusing and painful to be affectionate with you while you are in the process of ending our marriage." You say a lot what he thinks, but you don't really know what he thinks or why he is leveling accusations at you. Perhaps he is trying to justify his anger at you, his reasons for leaving. Perhaps he is trying to get you to make him feel better about his decision. Regardless, answer what he specifically asks, with a specific answer, and don't get sucked into trying to get him to understand and agree with your point of view. That's a cheeseless tunnel. Just feel how you feel, act to protect and respect yourself, and don't overshare with him.
I'm going to mindread a little here. What H leaving his wife wouldn't LOVE to be able to "be good friends" "still be affectionate" basically get to be a good and decent guy and also leave his wife. When being affectionate and friendly toward him is painful and confusing for you, you need to back off. You aren't going to "win him back" by being such a nice wife about being left.
The reason you feel like you have no direction is because your goal is not within your control. Getting your family back together is not within your control. We all want our families back together, really we do, the way they used to be and even better and stronger than ever. And if it was humanly possible to make that happen with only one of you doing the work, we'd all be happily married again. Read and reread DB or DR. Reread the 37 rules for newcomers. Don't pursue.
Expect that he's not going to be happy with some of your answers. Own them and stop worrying about making him happy. He wants to leave you, and he wants you to be unhappy about that, and he also wants you to be affectionate and friendly. At some point in this process you've got to stop being whatever it is you think will win him back and start being you, a better you, a you he'd have to be a fool to leave.
If he were to be interested in coming back, he would have to believe that marriage to you would be different and better than it was before. What are you doing toward that end? How are you improving yourself? How are you turning around things that you might have contributed to the problems in your marriage? What are you doing that is different? Perhaps that is where your sense of direction can come from.
For me, I learned from the bomb that I had some internal work to do, I had developed resentment and anger and I didn't even know it because I was afraid to go too deep into my own emotions, I preferred to deny them. I thought I was a good communicator but I was really only a good speaker; I had no idea how to listen to my H when we disagreed, I had no tools for managing conflict and so avoided conflict - which is impossible. And on and on. My hidden resentment came out in behavior that interfered with my marriage, loss of interest in my H physically, lack of ability to keep up with housework to his standards, etc, many many things that eroded my marriage and brought me to a place where I felt like an innocent wronged victim but also not the competent strong person I thought of myself as. This is just skimming the surface, there's been so much to work on for me, and I've learned so much. I dug in and got to work and that gave me direction. It just so happened that the direction I took to make myself into a better person and spouse could have been the direction that would "save my marriage" and at the same time it was the direction I needed to go to repair myself as a person in general. Having something like that to work on gives you power that gets you through the hard times when your sitch seems unfair. At least you have something to DO. That's within your CONTROL.
The ones who never stop focusing on the goal of "saving their marriage" never get past it to the point of doing the things that really might save their marriage. They're not tactics or action items, they're whole life changes and they are hard and gradual and painful and so much more meaningful in the long run than "what do I say when he says x" and "how should I behave when he does y." I'm biased but I don't think you should discount the possibility that there are more important goals for you right now than saving your marriage. It's hard to see that at first.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
Thank you, Advina, for putting all of that into such a great perspective. I alwasy worry about what people think and making others amd - I'm a fixer - and yes, it makes it all more confusing and painful. So when I intiated less contact, etc that wa part of the point, to make it less painful to me, but also so he knew that the situation was not ok as it was. But how do you get from beginning to end - at some point do we not have to become friends and almost 'date'again in order to get back together? It's not like he is going to decide to move back home one day. And mebeing distant and probably coming across 'cold', which is 'more of the same' from the beginning of our marriage (according to him) doesn't seem the path to get us there. Know what I mean?
Like you, I also have lots of internal work to do - some of it I have no idea how to start into - but I have started a list. I typed it all in word and am trying to copy over with no success. Might have to wait til I get home to post it. (it's a little long!)
This is the list I made today of things I need to work on. Feel free to comment...if nothing else, a good reminder to myself
• This is a BIG one – Failing to get involved with things outside the home for my OWN happiness. This encompasses so many things listed below. I tend to get so wrapped up in making sure the house is ran well and being hard on myself about things getting done, that I don’t go enjoy things. And then I drag everyone with me thinking they need to be the same way. This also leads to me resenting anything H did outside the house because why didn’t he think he should be helping me? Action: Find a balance and relax. Realize that we all need to do things for ourselves, just as much as we need to do things as a family. Don’t be so set on scheduling. I have been doing fairly well with this. Of course, with H not at home, some of the pressures that I put on myself, like having dinner ready each night,etc have been alleviated. But I do let things go more and don’t feel like I must have everything done. And D and I do go do things with friends/family at the drop of a hat, without worrying about what I need to get done. I’ve also gotten more into my hobby business, which is going well and making me extra money. Recently joined a small women’s bible study - which is good for both D and myself.
• Me always wanting more from H to try to make myself happy, which makes him feel inadequate and never good enough Action: Quit thinking everything needs to be perfect and expecting so much. Getting involved in things for myself will also help this. And also words of praise and affirmation for things he DOES do. This is tough when we are separated but I do thank him for things he does while he is at the house.
• Failure to use the proper Love Languages This kind of goes along with the big one up above. I show people love by doing things – such as showing H love by making sure to make things he likes for dinner, making sure it was done each night, making sure laundry was done etc. It gets exhausting. And you know what – that isn’t his language, it is mine. He needs praise and affirmation, which I am not good at AT ALL! Action: Practice by making sure to compliment others and paying more attention to what makes others happy. Compliment H when ever I have a chance.
• Failure to talk with him as a friend/partner Kind of an extension of the biggie above – when things aren’t getting done I tend to go into mother mode. Action: relax about things getting done and let him take care of things his way. Speak with him respectfully and as a friend, not in a demeaning manner and always asking why didn’t you do this, or do it this way.
• Never fully trusting men or relationships – I have an ‘everyone leaves’ attitude Action: At least I recognize the issue….but I do feel like he and I need to discuss boundaries for both of us (someday)
• Making my insecurities his problem Action: Own up to my insecurities and talk to him about them (again, someday…)
• My Control issue Trying to control all decisions – turn over more decisions to others, not worrying about the effects it may have on me or my schedule Acting as if I was the only responsible person in our marriage – allow him to be the responsible one and make decisions (including finances) Overplanning EVERYTHING – Part of this is just my nature, I plan. But sometimes I need to let him and others plan things out without complaining or trying to manipulate my own way. (I really did use to be a go with the flow, laid back person – and I still can be – sometimes) I have let him schedule days with D a lot lately, even when I had suggested days. H has been more in charge of his finances the last few months, but I did have to give him a set amount (we have to somehow stick to some sort of budget) But I have not nagged about him buying things and just said whatever, and he has been good at letting me know when he is using the card
• Not fully listening – two ears, one mouth, there is a reason lol. This isn’t just with H but in all relationships. Listen and make eye contact, without distractions such as phone or TV. Listen without trying to think of response. I feel I’ve gotten better at this, it is something that takes constant practice, for me anyway
• Interpreting his moods – I really just need to stop this now, when he was still home I should have just asked.
• Knowing when to talk about something and when to just let it go – something’s are better off just letting the cards fall as they will. Trusting that God will lead me to do this correctly. As much as H sometimes said I needed to keep my mouth shut, something’s must be discussed, particularly if it involves finances – when I am the one that does the finances.
If one thing is for certain, this entire situation has brought me to a much better place spiritually. I began praying more months before H actually moved out. God gives me strength each and every day. I realize that although I have always been a Christian, I never paid enough attention, or listened and watched for His guidance. Now I do.
Sorry this is soooo long, but that is what I need to start with. Things that I can work on myself to make myself a better person – hopefully that person he would be a fool to leave – but I do realize most needs to be done for me anyway.
I’m still contemplating a phone DB coach. Last night I started reading DR again, it does give hope.
I need to vent.....we do not have 'set times' for D. Which is fine, we can set them week to week. I've been easy going about it so far, such as this week I suggested Tuesday and Friday, he wanted Monday and Thursday, no biggie. And if he's running late from work he lets me no, and that is no problem either. But today we talk about Saturday night, he wont be out of town now. Here's how it went: Me: What time will you pick up D Saturday? H: After practice. Probably evening. Me: Would be nice if you could give some time frame H: Probably 6:30. Practice is 2:30. You know how that sh*t goes. H: 'Would be nice" sounds awful smart, geez. Me: I'm not being smart. It really would be nice. Evening can mean a lot of things. H:Usually means between 5-8 Me: Yes. And if I make plans I don't think it is fair to me to wait at home from 5-8. H: Speaking simply and kindly still isn't your strong suit. You can't just ask a question. "What time are ya thinking?" That's how that's done. THAT would be fair. H: Because missed your request for a time earlier Me: My first question was a simple and kind 'what time...." Sorry if that seemed otherwise. Your reply was vague. H: Nevermind. No longer important.
What? At first I thought he missed my first question about time. But that wouldn't make sense because why would he have started the conversation like that. It's just frustrating because he calls me out like that all the time. Sometimes texts can be misunderstood. But if you realize you missed the point that say, I'm sorry I misunderstood. Don't go bashing me.
Anyway, I hate to be the 'scheduler' and make set times. But don't be disrespectful of my time. I respect his time and don't even get bent out of shape when he runs late in the morning anymore.
It all sounds really silly, just needed to get it out.
Your list is fantastic, nice work!! This is an important step in DB'ing that a lot of people want to skip. But there's nothing like writing these things down to help you explore and understand what you personally need to work on and it also gives you something that you can go back and review as a reminder of what your goals are.
Regarding the conversation with your H, you did absolutely nothing wrong. He was being a tool and was just cruising for a fight. Kudos to you for not getting drawn into it. I think this says it all about his attitude:
"Speaking simply and kindly still isn't your strong suit. You can't just ask a question. "What time are ya thinking?" That's how that's done. THAT would be fair."
And yet, that is EXACTLY what you asked in the very first line. So what would be FAIR is for him to apologize for being an a$$.
Note to all LBS - evidently we should stay home and be hermits less we be accused of things we have not done...
Thank you AS, that was exactly what I was thinking about how that went the other day! Yes, the list helps me a lot, I have it written down in a notebook in my purse too.
The phone police have been at it again. I suppose as a LBS we are supposed to sit at home and be hermits, less we be accused of other things. H had D last night. I made plans to go to a movie and drinks with my cousin. On the way to pick D up (late at that, but that's another issue) he text asking about a number I've been texting Friday and Saturday - I tell him exactly who it is - a guy at work that was watching over a weekend project for me - totally legit! He doesn't believe who I was going to movies with, says I haven't talked with my cousin. At any rate - we all remember back at the beginning of the year I as texting with another guy - I apologized and have not talked to this guy since. (I did run into him at a grocery store last week, weird, but we just talked for a minute, he asked if I was still working on marriage, that was it)
So last night we are at a small bar and I get a text from this guy asking if I'm out. I don't reply. And then him and his friends show up. He saw my car in the lot. I can't help what other people do. We talked, he knows I'm still working on marriage, etc. Nothing happened.
This morning I get a text first thing from H saying he hoped I had a nice time hanging out with this guy. Phone police are on it. Now it doesn't matter that I didn't reply. He thinks this was all set up to meet this guy there. I tell him exactly how it was but he doesn't believe me. Says 'I kindly bow out. Start deciding what you wanna do with the house. Staying or selling. Can't be the crazy husband who decides to live separate and act like he needs to control from a distance. It's not me and I apologize. Go do your thing. Have an all nighter with (guy) or whatever else'
What??? It's like he's looking for me to mess up to have good reason. I know, mid reading,but thats what it feels like. And I have done nothing wrong (yes, should have never talked with guy from beginning, but I apologized and haven't talked with him since I did) And I have NEVER done anything our entire marriage to make him not trust me. Although he did say back when we first got married when we didn't have sex much he thought I was getting it elsewhere - not true at all.
I asked him if we could talk sometime today, that we shouldn't have these discussions over text. Told him nothing was planned like that last night, I could see where he would feel that way, but it wasn't the case, and that I am tired of being blamed for things I can't control or didn't do.
Frustrated!!!
So this talk should be interesting. No idea what to say. I'm just going to let him talk. He said he would talk but 'at this time, has no intention of living with me'
I did text him this morning that when I pulled back recently it was to work on myself, get my emotions in check and give him space. Nothing to do with other person.
I have a felling he is going to want me to do all talking though. So where do I start????
He was married once before, got married young, like early 20's and divorced at like 28, think they were separated several times. H is a musician, writes his own music/lyrics etc. And as much as one can say the songs aren't specific sometimes, a lot of your feelings at the time comes across in the lyrics. He has told me before that sometimes it's just specific words that go with the music he has already - but you wold have to have these thoughts that are coming out right?
He recently started playing with a band that used to play a lot back when he was married to first wife (or at least dating). I've listened to some of the music and much of it sounds exactly like some of the stuff going on now - it's all kind of poor me, you don't understand, I tell you things and you walk away. When I listen it's like something he could have wrote last week, know what I mean?
Not sure where I'm going with it, just more of an observation. But H does have a lot of tendencies to be depressed - he has told me as much. He will put on the funny guy, happy persona when he is actually depressed and down inside. Somehow this all relates to how things are with us now. I can't fix his depression issue, nor do I want to add to it.
Maybe I should talk with him about this today when we talk? Thoughts??
H is probably going to be here any minute. I'm just going to take his lead on this talk. Although I think he probably wants me to talk - and admit to something regarding last night - which isn't going to happen since nothing happened. I so hate this stuff. Why can't we just be normal?!! That's all I want is a normal family life. If we had that I wouldn't have even been out last night, besides the movie. Hey, he's always the one that said I needed to get out and do things....guess he changed his mind.
Isn't it funny how H can send mean and hateful text messages but then be sweet as can be in person?
When he dropped D off yesterday and we were going to talk about earlier texts, we talked for a long time about just stuff, fun stuff, having good conversation. After about an hour he said he was going to go and asked what I was wanting to talk about - uh, maybe the mean things you wrote earlier (I didn't really say that). So I kindly put it back to him and of course he starts talking about the other guy and Saturday night again - we rehash all of that and he says he sorry for over reacting.
I told him we hadn't talked much lately and just wanted to know about his feelings. He says we get along a lot better and respect each other more living apart, I agreed but said those are things we should do even if we do live together and that I knew I could be difficult at times. He says we NEVER got along well living together (what? really? then why did we get married? when we moved in together we weren't even engaged) I just said we have different stresses, becoming parents etc, but he says that parenting doesn't stress him out (Of course it doesn't but I kept my mouth shut on this one for once). I did complement him several times - about his new shirt and some other things. And I make sure to give attention and look in eyes, etc.
Then he wanted hugs, said it had been a long time since he had had a hug from opposite sex besides his mother, I jokingly said something about oh, I get to be the lucky one, and he said no, I actually want to hug YOU.
Which lead to other things....but I actually didn't feel bad afterwards so maye that's good.
He was super nice and we chatted and hugged this morning when he came to get D...so maybe we are getting back to someplace a little better. But it doesn't sound like he's planning to move back anytime soon. I do find it really annoying that he still sends awful texts but would never say those thigns in person - like those people that hide behind fake screen names and spew crap.
What's been on my mind last night and today is how I would really like to have another baby. Obviously, not going to happen any time soon, but I'm not getting any younger (nearing 36). He had said before separation that we wouldn't have any more. Guess I had hoped we would get better and that would change. But now with separation we could be adding years. Just something that bothers me. And what if we DO get divorced? Dating is a long process and I'm just afraid that it will be too late then...just has me down some.
I hate those nights when your mind just won't stop. H has D - worked out, showered, doing laundry, etc but everything just keeps racing. Last week was the 6th year anniversary of when H and I first met back up, hadn't seen each other since high school.
Yes, I'm working on things. And H and I have had better conversation etc since yesterdays discussions. I try to keep hope that we can be better and stronger if we can just make it thru this - but I'm only nearly 4 months in - it's going to take way longer.
I am working on bettering myself, working on the lists above, GAL - but the thoughts won't stop. What if I don't get to spend every Christmas morning with D, those types of things. What if I never get the opportunity to have another baby. What if's suck.
