Out of the abyss

[stilllookingup]

I would first find out if you are liable for it or not before deciding whether you help her or not.

[JuneReN]

^^^ agree^^^ If you are liable, and you do not want to do this, however, you should make it clear that this is happening only because you are also liable. Not in an accusatory way, just a calm way. It is not your debt per se, since wife signed.

If not liable, you can always decline saying that you are truly sorry it worked out that way and perhaps she and her brother can work something out.

[ForeverYoung]

I know you said she doesn't like coming to the marriage home, but I'd still offer it to her as an option for you guys to save money and pay off the defaulted debt. Give her options on bedrooms and let her set it up the way she wants. Some space of her own. You can offer your handyman help with this. Let her know that even though she's in the home, you will give her all the space she needs.

This might fly better if you wait until push comes to shove on the debt. Don't know if it will work for you guys, but that's what I would try.

[lionhrt]

Thanks for the responses.

Short answer is I don't think I am liable. Without seeing the loan agreement I could'nt be 100% but I am 90% sure.

Conversation on Friday actually went okay. W did not ask me to cover the repayments, just said she has'nt slept with worry and her brother is not replying to phone calls and texts. She also started smoking again.

I did a lot of validating and offered to contact BIL myself to see if he would speak to me. She said that would be helpful but give him until next week to get in touch.

We then touched on what FY stated re her not being able to afford her place if she had to make the repayments. I did not offer her to come back to M home but had to bite my tongue.

But I can see where you are coming from FY and it does not sound bad in theory. She would get all the space she needs as I am out most evenings except weekends when I have S. Not sure about giving her options on the bedroom. I am still holding the view that she left the home and M bed and I think I would hold my ground on that.

I have felt much less anxious since she moved out and we are getting along much better. I would worry that we may end up back at square 1 if she moved back in, but definately worth more thought.

I will see her again tomorrow so will have an update and at least hope BIL has contacted her.

[ForeverYoung]

Not sure about giving her options on the bedroom. I am still holding the view that she left the home and M bed and I think I would hold my ground on that.

I agree on you keeping the master BR.

I don't know your home set-up, but figured there was more than 2 BR's and possibly another room or even a basement she could fix up as her own place. Even a little remodeling would be easier on your budget than carrying two mortgages/rents. Imagine if she could be in home but somehow still feel she had her own space.

W and I have been in house separated for the duration, and it works for us. You just have to give her space. Oh, and I reclaimed the MBR early on.

Take your time, it sounds like there is no reason to rush things.

[ForeverYoung]

I have felt much less anxious since she moved out and we are getting along much better. I would worry that we may end up back at square 1 if she moved back in, but definately worth more thought.

Oh, and don't worry about this^^^, getting her back in your home is a step in the right direction for reconnection. You just have to take it slowly.

[lionhrt]

FY could'nt agree more re taking it slowly. There is also a big part of me that does not want her to feel forced into moving back in by having no other option? Would she not resent this more?

General update on sitch. A first happened yesterday in that W volunteered to drop S off at the M home. Said she was visiting a friend in the area (an old mutual friend) to pick up an old lawn mower so she would drop S off.

When she arrived S laughed and gave me a big hug which was great. She apologised for not knocking first but S barged straight in.

She stopped for a drink and chat (longest she has been in the M home since she left). She seemed quite anxious and fidgety at first but then relaxed a little later. She started telling me about her brother and the debt, how she missed a mobile phone payment and how generally she does not want to have to think about any of it (not sure what any of it meant but presumably the debt her brother has defaulted on). I validated a lot but did not offer money.

Prior to this during the week got a few of texts by W. Mainly she wanted me to drop off a stairgate for S (which she picked up when she visited yesterday) but they were happy texts, smiley faces and winks with a joke as well. I sent upbeat responses and varied the timing of them but made sure I was the one to end the messaging.

Not sure if the positive behaviour from W is because she might want help financially. I still feel a bit guarded where money is concerned but don't show it in front of W.

Another activity weekend with S..fed ducks and swimming today, horse ridig, some shopping and a chill out together watching a DVD tomorrow.

My working away during the week also ended last week so can get stuck into those jobs around the house faster.

Basically no major movements but still getting along well with W and our talks are getting longer at pick up and drop offs.

[lionhrt]

Saw W again at drop off today and our interactions are definately getting longer. Was there over 2 hours today and the time passed v quickly. We both seem to have alot to say to each other.

Still mainly small talk and alot about S but she told me she is now on medication for menopause and was excited telling me her boobs seem to have grown as a result of the medication

W also said she thought about me this weekend. She was clearing her garden and had a pit fire to burn off some of the old wood. I used to do this a lot in the summer and she said it reminded her of me.......and no talk of money/debt which was a welcome relied:)

I have another hurdle in that W mentioned that my parents never sent her a birthday or xmas card. It is the first I heard as I barely talk about her to my parents although they occasionally ask how W is. It worries me as I read a lot of 25yrs posts which references keeping the road home paved smooth and could tell it irritated W. I have been careful what I have told my parents and TBH we dont talk about W other than they occasionally ask how she is.

So apart from the issue with my parents I feel like we are starting to connect a little. Talks are very light and we are joking with each other (alot like we used to).

But she has stopped initiating hugs and I could use some views on whether I should start to initiate them. One of her complaints was that we did not hug enough outside of the bedroom and she was right.....we didnt! any thoughts?

[ForeverYoung]

Saw W again at drop off today and our interactions are definately getting longer. Was there over 2 hours today and the time passed v quickly. We both seem to have alot to say to each other.

This is good news, keep doing what you are doing and let her lead.

Still mainly small talk and alot about S but she told me she is now on medication for menopause and was excited telling me her boobs seem to have grown as a result of the medication

And you contained your excitement, correct?

I have another hurdle in that W mentioned that my parents never sent her a birthday or xmas card. It is the first I heard as I barely talk about her to my parents although they occasionally ask how W is. It worries me as I read a lot of 25yrs posts which references keeping the road home paved smooth and could tell it irritated W. I have been careful what I have told my parents and TBH we dont talk about W other than they occasionally ask how she is.

So next time they ask about her you casually mention that she missed getting a card from them. Maybe they just forgot. If they say they object to sending her a card because she left you, say you understand how they feel but she is still your wife, and the mother of their grandkids.

So apart from the issue with my parents I feel like we are starting to connect a little. Talks are very light and we are joking with each other (alot like we used to).

Don't let the parent issue hold you back. W is watching you, not them. Tell your parents you love your wife and intend to build a new and better marriage with her. If they love you, they'll climb on board. (and of course they do... and will)

Not sending a greeting card to your W is nothing compared to the manner some family members can end up sabotaging reconciliation efforts.

Continue to build on your connection with W. From what you've posted, it sounds very positive to me.

But she has stopped initiating hugs and I could use some views on whether I should start to initiate them. One of her complaints was that we did not hug enough outside of the bedroom and she was right.....we didnt! any thoughts?

I wouldn't initiate. Let her lead for now. The last time I hugged my wife, (New Years eve at midnight) she did not hug back. It did nothing good for her and even less for me.

FY could'nt agree more re taking it slowly. There is also a big part of me that does not want her to feel forced into moving back in by having no other option? Would she not resent this more?

She may feel that way if it were truly her only option. In that case tell her that it's only temporary, until you both get your feet back on the ground. Then give her lots of space in the M home. (while quietly building up your connection)

For some reason I really think you guys are going to get through this.

[lionhrt]

Thanks for this FY and the feedback re my parents. I will definately take your advice on this. I also agree re the hugs. Hugging was the thing that set her off crying and I don't want to get into that space again!

Re the boobs "And you contained your excitement, correct?" yes I did but I could not help but look it was a natural reaction and she clocked me looking :), we had a laugh about it at the time... and yes they did seem bigger . But contained myself.....just!

Another bit of an update (a lot happening these last couple of days). Yesterday I cleared under the stairs (not done that in all the time we have been married). I text W to say I had bagged up all these things and asked if I could drop them off at some point. She said sure she is in all day so went over earlier today again.

So went round to W again earlier (bearing in mind I only saw her yesterday) and yet again we drank coffee and spoke for nearly 3 hours. Again, nothing relationship, just general stuff.

Now here is a really funny part. I have always wanted to grow my own vegetables etc etc and maybe keep a few chickens etc but the garden is not big enough. I am into all that kinda stuff with food and where its sourced. W has never been into it....but she insisted on showing me her plans for a vegetable patch and seeds she has planted. I thought how strange, you are doing everything I wanted to do at the M home!

She talked about house prices in the same street as hers and how they were reasonably priced.

Not sure why she would mention this and this is mindreading alot but it almost feels like she is trying to sell the area to me....like..you would really like living here and its affordable.

I also think that W associates the M home with too many bad memories - she also lived here when she broke up from her previous H and that she could never be happy back here. But it also seems like she is trying to sell her new place to me.

She asked how preps were going for the charity run I am doing in May for S special school. She said she wanted to come and watch but could'nt because she would have S to look after (he does not cope well with crowds). I said if she really wanted to come we could arrange something. She was also interested in helping with the sponsorship etc.

She asked about my plans for summer. She is planning visiting her brother and having a long weekend with the girls in September abroad. I said good for you and it will do her the world of good to get away for a long weekend. I too have a long weekend planned with my friends during the summer and am thinking of taking S abroad for a week.

W sister also text me and asked me when am I going to call around as they have not seen me in a while. I have taken a couple of days holiday to do some jobs around the house so decided to call around there last night as well. We did'nt speak about W much but sister mentioned that W has spoken to her about a lot of things. She had a rant to her a while back about me, she has also talked a lot about childhood, their dad who died when they were young and apparently told her things about chldhood that she had never heard before. Overall she said she is good and seems more relaxed. So this all seems to be positive and I am glad W is talking to her sister about stuff and looks like she is working on herself too.

"For some reason I really think you guys are going to get through this."

Thanks FY and it is nice to hear that from someone going through all this as well. But TBH I am feeling the opposite. Like we are getting along well, there are good foundations to start to build on again....but, I am starting to think that this is how it will be forever, just good friends. Kinda fits in with W vision of us being roomates at BD.

I have to keep reminding myself that this is the woman that only last August blamed me for everything and anything wrong in her life and our M, that the M was never right etc etc etc when one of my goals was a civilsed conversation!

Sorry for the long post and thanks for the great input.