Thank you Starsky, Your 2x4 have made me think a lot, a lot and I appreciate that.
Journaling
IC kept probing me about the letter to OW. If you recall, H wanted me to ask my dad for money but I would only do it if I knew he was no longer in a relationship with OW.
From IC session I learned that I would rather build up my anxiety and ask for the letter than talk to H about how inappropriate it is for him to ask me to ask my dad for money. I do not see that as an option and would rather limit myself (more) than ask my dad for money.
Why didn't I just tell H that? I realize that I go to extremes and this is one of them. Before I wouldn't compromise, AT ALL. It was my way, regardless! Now I compromise in all situations. Even when I don't agree. Therefore, I need to find balance.
As far as the letter to OW. IC said that LBS' tend to blame the affair/OP when it's not relevant to certain topics. My experience with the money was an example. I do believe I did not address the letter at the right time or in the manner I would've preferred. I would've rather done this in the evening, in person, after we had talked about reconciling and what that means to both of us. Instead I started the conversation with no warning and I was shaking and stuttering as I spoke over the phone.
She also said that H has NOT demonstrated he wants to fully reconcile. If and when he says he wants to come back home, then I should ask for the letter. For now, I need to continue on with my own life and let him be. She recommends we see MC since we both have different interpretations as to what are the first steps in reconciling. She thinks he needs to hear it from MC than me. I agree.
She also said that he is not showing signs of reconciling if he is not willing to move back in due to my triggers. He is still not willing to accept the responsibilities of his actions. He also needs to hear the MC say this since his IC is telling him something else. My IC believes he is painting me as this frantic raving mad person and not disclosing all the progress I've made.
It was a lot to take in but I feel so much better now. I was very very confused and wanted to take total control of the situation. And I was getting very hurt and frustrated because he wasn't budging.
So Fri I'll let him know that I think we should see MC and I continue to work on letting go of the rope.
Does this mean I leave the piecing forum??? :-(
M 42 H 39 T10 (-2yrs separation) S8 D5 DD 7/30/11 (EA&PA) Reconciled 6/2013 Separation in works 1/2017
I thought I'd share with you some of the boundaries that we arrived at in our relationship to give my wife confidence that I wasn't communicating with the OW. I realize you might have to get there in baby steps.
1) Honest answers to HER questions about the affair, particularly the "hows" of communication.
2) The cease and desist letter from me reviewed ahead of time by her.
3) She met with OW to tell her civilly but firmly to stay away
4) Complete access to ALL my modes of communication. No pass codes. (she checked randomly, I HATED it, but I can't begin to tell you how much better I felt when I knew I had nothing to hide)
5) On going couples counselling.....its really hard to continue the deceit in that setting.
6) Then she did something remarkable. After a time, she said I can imagine hard it is to deal with your feelings toward the OW. If you really need to I give you my permission to send her a letter. I want to know about it before you do it and I want the right to read it before you send it. I cannot begin to tell you how powerful that was.
I believe that is directed to me and you are asking about #6 above.
The answer is no, I didn't. There is nothing left to say about the past and anything else I'd say would be about a present and future that isn't part of my world anymore.
First off, thank you l'infidele for sharing this. It really helps to see some clarity among all this and your experience helps, a lot! I have some questions about what you did.
Originally Posted By: l'infidele
2C,
I thought I'd share with you some of the boundaries that we arrived at in our relationship to give my wife confidence that I wasn't communicating with the OW. I realize you might have to get there in baby steps.
1) Honest answers to HER questions about the affair, particularly the "hows" of communication. This has been ongoing between us. Which has helped us.
2) The cease and desist letter from me reviewed ahead of time by her. Is this the letter to OW? Please explain.
3) She met with OW to tell her civilly but firmly to stay away WOW! I couldn't do this. Unless of course OW is not getting the point!
4) Complete access to ALL my modes of communication. No pass codes. (she checked randomly, I HATED it, but I can't begin to tell you how much better I felt when I knew I had nothing to hide) I just had a conversation with him about this because he says he'll do it but adds, I don't think this will help. ugh! I said, when you have nothing to hide then you don't have a problem with it!
5) On going couples counselling.....its really hard to continue the deceit in that setting. We have sessions scheduled with MC for next week.
6) Then she did something remarkable. After a time, she said I can imagine hard it is to deal with your feelings toward the OW. If you really need to I give you my permission to send her a letter. I want to know about it before you do it and I want the right to read it before you send it. I cannot begin to tell you how powerful that was. What was in the letter?
Just some thoughts.
Good luck and peace be with you.
M 42 H 39 T10 (-2yrs separation) S8 D5 DD 7/30/11 (EA&PA) Reconciled 6/2013 Separation in works 1/2017
H n I had another big conversation last week after something happened. I made a financial decision (that wouldn't affect him) and he felt I had undermined him. I had NO idea my actions would come across this way but with much better communication from both our parts, we learned something new about each other.
In the conversation we talked about him moving back. We both saw this coming in another couple months. Other things were said but I no longer brought up the letter, although it's still in the back of my mind.
Yesterday at IC, she said that I'm obsessing about the letter. Live in the present. The time will come for him to write the letter. However she said, now that you will both be returning to MC have the discussions in front of MC about our difference of opinion when it comes to rebuilding trust, among other things. She said, notice how he gradually responds to conflict in front of the MC between the both of you. That is more telling than the letter.
Ok, backpedaling. H hates when we argue which is why he held so much resentment from the past, which is why he detached, etc. He still doesn't like to argue but we communicate a lot better. When we were going to MC last year, I avoided conflicts because he hated it. He especially hated doing it in front of someone else.
So when IC says notice the changes in his reaction to conflict, I can see how this is a sign of progress for him, and both of us.
We'll see how it goes.
M 42 H 39 T10 (-2yrs separation) S8 D5 DD 7/30/11 (EA&PA) Reconciled 6/2013 Separation in works 1/2017
I think its useful to note that I wasn't a WAH, having an affair was never about leaving my marriage. I was in a SSM and my infidelity was about that. So when it came time to set these boundaries I was very open to them.
So the things I did above were all about setting reasonable boundaries. As we began to piece our road forward together we agreed to boundaries. They weren't about punishment. The were the guidelines we agreed to in order to establish the rules for moving forward. Think of them as the rails on the side of the road. They establish the outside boundaries. If we bump into them then we know we are going off the road of the R.
So the fundamental issue we faced was rebuilding my Wife's trust in me, so we established boundaries that would give her confidence that I wasn't still connected to the OW.
1) Details of how I communicate with the OW. That way she could monitor them if she chose.
2)"The letter" That way she could see that I had said to the OW what I was saying to her. a)its over b)no more communication ever.
3) The face to face meeting- It's probably not for everyone, but both my Wife and the OW wanted to have it as part of the closure. From my retrospective it was important (at the time the idea of my "real world" and my "fantasy world" colliding freaked me out) but in retrospect having them see each other as human beings, being civil with one another, and closing completely deflated the secret magic of the affair.
4) Open access. Unless you had some past issues with you being controlling this is a MUST DO. It [censored]. My first reaction to his response is that he thinks he can just find another secret means of communication. That is completely outside of the boundaries
5)Counselling-Obvious
6) later communication-No this was many months after the affair ended. Wife said "Hey, I know you must carry some left over feelings toward former OW, you can send her a message to get closure on those feelings. I just needed to see it"
It was very powerful. I showed ultimate compassion and mercy on my Wife's part.
But it also disarmed any fantasies of future communication. Basically, I'd already said goodbye, there was nothing left to close out or say that couldn't be construed as repaving the road to a future relationship that simply couldn't happen. Moreover, if I sent a message in the future without Wife's knowledge there was no excuse.
I made a financial decision (that wouldn't affect him) and he felt I had undermined him. I had NO idea my actions would come across this way but with much better communication from both our parts, we learned something new about each other.
-I find it amazing how a WAS continues to think they have right to control things in the marriage from which they have walked away. But unemotional detachment is the key. So congrats for learning.-
Yesterday at IC, she said that I'm obsessing about the letter. Live in the present. The time will come for him to write the letter.
-Right, maybe you are looking to it as a SIGN. That probably puts to much weight on it.-
However she said, now that you will both be returning to MC have the discussions in front of MC about our difference of opinion when it comes to rebuilding trust, among other things. She said, notice how he gradually responds to conflict in front of the MC between the both of you. That is more telling than the letter.
-A few thoughts about boundaries. I would imagine that its tempting for the LBS to focus on just getting the WAS back into the house and worrying about the details later. I suspect that's a mistake. I think its reasonable for both of you to set ALL the boundaries, BEFORE he moves back in. That way there can be no feelings of bait and switch; less hurt feelings, and less confusion.-
Thank you l'infidele for posting your experience. It gives such an insightful perspective amongst all this mess. I find myself understanding more what my true feelings are and it helps me to communicate better with H.
Wed I snooped. (I know, I know). However, Thank God I practiced the Al Anon program and I was able to find clarity among all of it. I spoke to H and told him, I don't want to know who you went to these places with, the truth is I don't trust you and that is what is frustrating me. We don't agree on how to rebuild trust and I'm distancing myself from you emotionally to protect myself.
It was a productive conversation because I was able to express myself in a nonthreatening way. Did he listen to my concerns? He did. Did things change the next day? Nope, or the next, or the next. However, I figured that much.
I feel as if I'm on my side of the couch watching TV and no longer paying attention to what he's doing. Again, feeling detached (with love) and surrendering it all to God.
Today he spent the day at home with us. We made lunch and he played baseball with S4. It felt so normal. I no longer expect him to express some revelation to me about R after these days. Instead, I enjoy it and go about my day as planned.
MC appt isn't for another 2weeks. He is BOOKED! I will be journaling on here a lot in order to keep a handle on my emotions.
M 42 H 39 T10 (-2yrs separation) S8 D5 DD 7/30/11 (EA&PA) Reconciled 6/2013 Separation in works 1/2017
