25yearsmlc

[25yearsmlc]

Great post Adinva.

I'll take it piece by piece...if I can

Hey 25.

You're dealing with an awful lot. Take care of you first.


I feel I am taking care of myself by going to my workshop (EE) and how I live myself. I do SOME self care things for me. Maybe not enough until lately.

But you're right; it's a lot and not all of it is H, or d15 or "us". The deployment trauma issues are real but there are tools to avail myself of and I will this week. Plus, time will help, and I know that.

As for his time gone FROM US and that aspect, again, time will HELP but it won't solve all of it.

I have an angry 15yo boy and talk a lot about him here. It's interesting to note that your kids were not along for the ride through your marriage transformation and reconciliation. Something obvious in retrospect but you would think of course they'd be happy you're back together and that's that.

AGREED...Except they watched me carefully at the time. I specifically recall d1, then 16, telling her babysitting boss that she "admired" me for DBing and "trying to keep our family together and my vows".

But SHE was very hurt by h's departure. She was 16 then. She cried and asked him to stay but he left anyhow.

That is a memory I still work on letting go of, and if there is one thing I hold onto (not by choice but b/c it's hard to let go of) it's that memory of her tears and his later departure. With all my heart/soul, I KNOW I could not have done that to her.

SIDENOTE--I do think d15 MUST speak with respect to both her parents. Regardless of what we have done to each other, we put a roof over her head and we're her parents and this is OUR HOME. Live by the rules or live elsewhere.

But they each have their own opinion of their dad and their own relationship with him, and they didn't get to work through those things while you did. And - they did not have a role in the history of what happened to you two. It's easier for you to forgive and move on because you were half of the whole. They were innocent bystanders. That makes sense to me.

All ^^ true. And it IS an overlooked element of reconciling. (But I'm very glad I did not bad mouth him then. Seriously.

D1 would say "Dad's being selfish" and I'd say "he' s just confused" and she'd say "or both". She'd ask "what's going on?" and I'd try to project confidence. The most important thing then, was to say "I'll do what I honestly feel is going to make YOU guys happiest in the long run." I meant it. I thought/think an intact marriage usually makes them happier than a split one.

I think my biggest fear is how they NOW see MY DBing...is it weak or strong, to stay and forgive?

(Oh don't worry. I have MY opinion, but it's theirs that concerns me at the moment).

My S15 thinks his dad is a jerk, tells his friends he hates him, and is disrespectful to his face, avoids him as much as possible. And he's only been abandoned since December.

Ouch!!....


What I see happening is that the more awkward it gets between them, and the more obvious it is that S15 is angry, the more distance H puts there. It's like he's expecting a relationship of equals where they can bury the hatchet and act like everything's normal. He's the adult, and I think he needs to face the fire, suffer the insults and insubordination to get to that child and hold him tight and love him and try harder.

Within limits, I agree. (back to the respect thing--goes both ways but the eye rolling and sighs are super tiresome)

Thankfully, My h DOES make an effort with them. He knows he is the adult and HE is the one who was gone so much. He can lose his temper at times, but it's not a batchit crazy temper (yet). More like irritability when he's on edge. He seems to find it hard to relax unless he FULLY relaxes and does nothing,

or he fully works on many tasks/projects and can't stand others around him relaxing. This is a trait of his that is hard on all of us.

To the youngest, he seems "fake" b/c he approaches them with a smile and enthusiasm b/c to h, that's a PMA. To HER, it's weird. Or as she says "psycho", which is lovely...

I know why the kids feel that's weird, but I also know what h is trying to do. That's a tough one for me. Not sure yet what to do about it yet.

There are ways of being less awkward around an ornery teen, and it's hard when as the mom I feel like I've done enough damage trying to create their relationship for them and manage it for them. I feel like I need to let them figure it out and yet they neither of them have the tools.

I hear you. Is your son willing to see a c? I'm not sure it'll help (but it can't be worse than most mc's.)

In our case, My H can regain the tools he feels rusty with. I think he will do so (this is apart from the deployment stuff but just THEIR r's)

My older kids can get tools too, b/c I'm going to have them attend the workshop, separately. And h will also go, (separately from them but with me.) BTW, the EE workshop is in Philadelphia so I don't think it's far from you. And they offer free housing if you don't want to spend $$ on a hotel.

That still leaves d15 unattended so far.

Since you're in a better relationship with your H maybe you can suggest things to try to make it less awkward. Simply showing up at their events if they have events, showing up and being interested in them, even if they act like that's lame and embarassing.

I have to give that to him...If he can at all, he shows up for her games. He's genuinely interested and it is a topic she's willing to discuss.

Granted, he was gone to the Middle East for months. But before and since, he's not missed but one or two of her games for work.

THEN, when he's working, he'll want me or s26 to text him a blow by blow discussion of the game. This ruins the game for US b/c I can't just watch it...and makes us all want to say, "LIVE here if you want to see the games."

Saying that in writing reveals to me that I am not as at peace with the working away from home in the week as I thought.

He'll need to get a job HERE pretty darn fast. It's bugging me more than I realized.


Driving them places, golden for a 15yo. I drive my kids anywhere and everywhere, including all the neighborhood boys. There's not much I can do to really connect with them other than to play taxi driver for them as much as possible. And I get to hear their music and I hear their jokes and who they think is cute. I get to ask them a few questions or sometimes even insert my opinion.

For sure, taxiing is the main way I discover significant things from my kids. When they're small you also put them to bed and get an earful, and even these days, I might get a serious word or two at that time. But it's brief unless I go into their room.

But as the older kids are here for the next 4 months, they have taken on parental roles (NOT at my request, btw) and they all confide in each other. Usually the older ones report back to me what d15's main concerns are, if she has not discussed it with me directly.

I'm glad they are close. Very glad. But sure, I wonder if some of their perceptions color the other's.

Don't we all?


Maybe there's a tv series they can watch together and H can try to make that their thing they do together.

We all tend to watch a few series together. Maybe making it a one on one thing is a good idea (but my guess is h will want "all of us to be together" at those times...b/c he knows that his time is limited AND our older kids won't be in the house much longer).

Incidentally This is the first time in 8 years all 3 lived under one roof, except for past holidays.

BTW when h first left, our son was far off at college. My 2 d's and I began watching "American Idol" and "The Closer" together. Especially AI became a real "treat" for us to do.

We'd discuss my musical tastes and theirs, b/c the show played all types so we connected on that level. And we'd vote together and discuss it and it was a bonding experience.

They have sort of grown out of it now but I"ll always have fond memories of that show b/c it was an "all girls" thing to do and h was gone and so was son....
It was one of the first things we did to get a PMA and to feel that there might be an "upside" or two, to having no men around. Or at least not h.




Or cook together. It's gotta be something more purposeful than being dropped off to "spend time together." Even a meal out at a restaurant can be a little excruciating with my 15yo, unless I bring a friend for him.


I hear you!! Evidently offering an opinion on ANYTHING is "OMG Mom, SO lame".

Then again, last night d15 entered my room to ask me to "rant" about a current event near here. She was doing a report and she translated the parts of what I said that she agreed with, for her paper.

I have mixed feelings about that but mostly, I admit, I felt flattered that she'd take my words and adopt some of them as her own. (I can only hope this was allowed by the teacher. NO sources were requested, so there you go...) And of course, none of her friends were around to see this.



Maybe you can suggest things like these or other ideas that can help your H push through the awkwardness and just get some time in to make up for the time he was noticeably absent.

I think it makes total sense that your 15yo counts active duty as abandonment time. Her world revolves around her.

Absolutely the world does revolve around her. If I ask her to do ANYTHING around the house, instantly, her homework is her priority...as for his overseas time,

She said "why didn't he just say 'no'" to the Army...? I was active duty before she was born, so she's not used to the Army telling you where to live or with whom. The older ones got it better...but still, you're right about this.

Learning to understand and maybe forgive his absences could come partly from talking to you about things and both of you sharing your perspectives.

Done that...I really defended his deployment but for THIS part ^^, whether she will, I think it'll take time or a shift in her paradigm (or not)...and that will be her thing to carry on if she wants.

My hope is that in time, she'll see him retire from the military (for real-no recalls) and him living here full time..

but it better happen soon or she'll graduate.


I think it's pretty cool that she's so open with you that she'd call you weak for what she observes. I mean, bad for you, but good for her as an independent thinker and bold speaker.

I'll work on seeing this^^^...as a positive. (The alternative stinks.)


That gives you a chance to talk to her more. Kids see things so starkly, they just don't get how complicated a 20+ year marriage can be, or how you make choices in life and it's not all black and white.

AMEN...


She'll learn a lot from talking with you and observing you, and someday (when you're 91) she's probably going to realize how very strong you were. She's probably trying to push your buttons anyway.

Good points

I did some family counseling with H and my boys, two sessions, to learn how to have a respectful family meeting. I think it was very good for us. The boys were not happy about having to go to a counselor, and they didn't like her.

Good for you! Did they get things off their chest at all?

But I've seen evidence that some of her ideas sank in. I think it would do my H a world of good to have some IC himself to learn how to build a relationship with his angry children.

any chance that will happen?

My IC is really big on modeling and talking with the kids, role playing conversations that might be difficult, and encouraging them to share how they feel in an environment where they'll be listened to and not punished for speaking out. We're not there yet, but it's a work in progress.


Good for you. I agree the kids must feel SAFE to say their feelings or they won't say them...directly...and things will stink around the home b/c of too many unexpressed pains.

She thinks my S15 is going to need to talk to his dad, tell him how he feels about being left, about how unfairly he thinks he's being treated with all the criticism and yelling. She said he may not get satisfaction from H, but to stand up and have that conversation, respectfully, is part of becoming an adult and will do him good.

Agreed. FWIW, best case scenario is your h will appear to listen.

Worst case, your son gets it off his chest (unless your h is the type to launch a counter attack. Best prepare your h for the storm coming so he gets his umbrella out and doesn't strike back).


She said that he may learn from that, that his dad just isn't able to provide the connection he needs. She said that a lot of the benefit comes from just S15 recognizing and asking for it.

Excellent point. Something I learned long ago is that some "emotional wells" are dry. You cannot get a drink from those wells. I still see friends going back to the narcissistic parent or sibling or spouse, for support -that the parent/sibling or spouse really cannot give. Their well is dry, for that friend, for whatever reason. The reason is not relevant, actually.

The friend needs to find wells that are not dry and to not go to dry wells when they have emotional thirst. Big life lesson.


I wish I had more answers than questions, but it's hard to watch things not go so well between your kids and their dad. I think the key is being real with them, hearing their perspective and giving it respect rather than trying too hard to explain to them why they're just not understanding the way things have to be. Encouraging them to understand their feelings and share them respectfully.

I hear you.^^

I also have thought about this, and wonder what you think. I think my S15 feels he's being loyal to me in a way by being angry at my H's shortcomings.

I GET THIS^^^...


I think I might tell him that I understand why he would be angry and why he would want to be disrespectful, but that what I want more than anything is for him to learn to build a respectful relationship with his dad. And I might try to give him suggestions on how to do that. So he can learn how to express disapproval without smirks and passive aggressive behavior but up front words. So he can learn to say how he feels instead of acting it out.

AGREED. I used to say to the kids (still do on occasion), "you know your father would kill/die for you, right?" And I meant it. I'd also say "if you are mad at your dad for how YOU feel, that's one thing. But I can handle my stuff with him on my own. I don't need your anger to add to mine so don't worry that it's "disloyal" of you to bond with him. I WANT you to bond with him...he loves you so much, even if he's confused, he's NOT confused about that..."

H's issues with me and his life not in the wilds, were NOT about the kids not being exciting or good enough. But d15 said ~3 months ago, "he'll just come home and get bored with me and leave again."

OUCH! I almost don't believe she believes that, but who knows?

Oh yeah, I TOLD HIM that. Not in anger but from concern.

He was touched and saddened so he knows it's on HIM to change things. Or so I think.

I DO think his expectations of the kids are unrealistic. I think he got that from his family.

On one side they were bitter immigrants. I recall the day h graduated first from veterinary school (he went to 'human medical school later in life)

and his Russian grandmother said, "Why can't you invent something USEFUL TO ME, or BE something useful to me, like a dentist?" Being a veterinarian meant literally nothing to HER. Later when he went to medical school she kept asking him when he'd finally be done...

H is not that way with our kids. But his enthusiasm can translate into a form of pressure.

Our older ones are professional actors and in the industry. EVERY time we see a good performance, h turns to the kids and means to encourage them
(it's a gut wrenching industry filled with rejection even for the famous "winners")

and says, "Wow, YOU could do that, even better!"

While he means well, it always seems like anything less than an Academy award or a super well paying film, will be insufficient. That tends to paralyze them if they let it. Lately they have not, but I can see that in the earlier years, they'd hold off from telling him of ANY parts they got for fear he'd tell everyone else and they might get dropped or edited out later. It can always happen.

Our oldest d had a GOOD role in a strong feature film, playing the young version of the lead actress. Then the lead actress changed, to do a different film. Suddenly and our d1 was now taller than the new lead actress and therefore our d lost the part. Not through an act of her own (except being tall). But h still tells our world that "she got that part!"
While that is true, for HER, it's painful to have gotten a role 2500 others auditioned for, she won, and then lost...& have to re-tell the story to those who don't know.

We focus so much on saving ourselves, and saving our marriages, but I hadn't thought so much until now about how the kids might feel differently about that.

Yes, well, You & me both. Hence the desire to post here. It is NOT in the DB book, btw. I checked.