25yearsmlc

[adinva]

Hey 25.

You're dealing with an awful lot. Take care of you first.

I have an angry 15yo boy and talk a lot about him here. It's interesting to note that your kids were not along for the ride through your marriage transformation and reconciliation. Something obvious in retrospect but you would think of course they'd be happy you're back together and that's that.

But they each have their own opinion of their dad and their own relationship with him, and they didn't get to work through those things while you did. And - they did not have a role in the history of what happened to you two. It's easier for you to forgive and move on because you were half of the whole. They were innocent bystanders. That makes sense to me.

My S15 thinks his dad is a jerk, tells his friends he hates him, and is disrespectful to his face, avoids him as much as possible. And he's only been abandoned since December. What I see happening is that the more awkward it gets between them, and the more obvious it is that S15 is angry, the more distance H puts there. It's like he's expecting a relationship of equals where they can bury the hatchet and act like everything's normal. He's the adult, and I think he needs to face the fire, suffer the insults and insubordination to get to that child and hold him tight and love him and try harder.

There are ways of being less awkward around an ornery teen, and it's hard when as the mom I feel like I've done enough damage trying to create their relationship for them and manage it for them. I feel like I need to let them figure it out and yet they neither of them have the tools. Since you're in a better relationship with your H maybe you can suggest things to try to make it less awkward. Simply showing up at their events if they have events, showing up and being interested in them, even if they act like that's lame and embarassing. Driving them places, golden for a 15yo. I drive my kids anywhere and everywhere, including all the neighborhood boys. There's not much I can do to really connect with them other than to play taxi driver for them as much as possible. And I get to hear their music and I hear their jokes and who they think is cute. I get to ask them a few questions or sometimes even insert my opinion.

Maybe there's a tv series they can watch together and H can try to make that their thing they do together. Or cook together. It's gotta be something more purposeful than being dropped off to "spend time together." Even a meal out at a restaurant can be a little excruciating with my 15yo, unless I bring a friend for him. Maybe you can suggest things like these or other ideas that can help your H push through the awkwardness and just get some time in to make up for the time he was noticeably absent.

I think it makes total sense that your 15yo counts active duty as abandonment time. Her world revolves around her. Learning to understand and maybe forgive his absences could come partly from talking to you about things and both of you sharing your perspectives.

I think it's pretty cool that she's so open with you that she'd call you weak for what she observes. I mean, bad for you, but good for her as an independent thinker and bold speaker. That gives you a chance to talk to her more. Kids see things so starkly, they just don't get how complicated a 20+ year marriage can be, or how you make choices in life and it's not all black and white. She'll learn a lot from talking with you and observing you, and someday (when you're 91) she's probably going to realize how very strong you were. She's probably trying to push your buttons anyway.

I did some family counseling with H and my boys, two sessions, to learn how to have a respectful family meeting. I think it was very good for us. The boys were not happy about having to go to a counselor, and they didn't like her. But I've seen evidence that some of her ideas sank in. I think it would do my H a world of good to have some IC himself to learn how to build a relationship with his angry children.

My IC is really big on modeling and talking with the kids, role playing conversations that might be difficult, and encouraging them to share how they feel in an environment where they'll be listened to and not punished for speaking out. We're not there yet, but it's a work in progress. She thinks my S15 is going to need to talk to his dad, tell him how he feels about being left, about how unfairly he thinks he's being treated with all the criticism and yelling. She said he may not get satisfaction from H, but to stand up and have that conversation, respectfully, is part of becoming an adult and will do him good. She said that he may learn from that, that his dad just isn't able to provide the connection he needs. She said that a lot of the benefit comes from just S15 recognizing and asking for it.

I wish I had more answers than questions, but it's hard to watch things not go so well between your kids and their dad. I think the key is being real with them, hearing their perspective and giving it respect rather than trying too hard to explain to them why they're just not understanding the way things have to be. Encouraging them to understand their feelings and share them respectfully.

I also have thought about this, and wonder what you think. I think my S15 feels he's being loyal to me in a way by being angry at my H's shortcomings. I think I might tell him that I understand why he would be angry and why he would want to be disrespectful, but that what I want more than anything is for him to learn to build a respectful relationship with his dad. And I might try to give him suggestions on how to do that. So he can learn how to express disapproval without smirks and passive aggressive behavior but up front words. So he can learn to say how he feels instead of acting it out.

We focus so much on saving ourselves, and saving our marriages, but I hadn't thought so much until now about how the kids might feel differently about that.