I posted before that it seems to me that you may be mixing parts of marriage builders "plan A" with parts of the 180, and now it seems that you are getting advice from your DB coach that is a bit contrary to some of the prevailing wisdom on this board, particularly in regard to pursuing activities.
As you mentioned before, the heart of DB's approach is do what works. In your case, you are convinced that the warming/pursuing/physical touch/plan A type actions are working, and that is what you are being told to do by your DB coach. I mentioned before that you need to pick an approach and follow it. You should pick an approach you think is appropriate for your situation, and most importantly, that you think you can follow and accomplish.
No offense, but I dont think you can successfully pull-off all fo the 180 techniques such as detaching/GALing as espoused on this board, and frankly I dont think that approach is well suited to your specific situation. Left to your own devices, I think you are going to continue to put up with her behavior, you will not be able to signal detachment, she will know that she can keep you hooked with non-sexual crumbs. And in your case, it really seems that your wife strayed in equal parts because she allowed someone else to start meeting her needs of affirmation and physical contact, and she didnt respect you enough to fear losing you. Even your DB coach is advising you to pursue and build the physical connection. This is clearly what you want to do. So I would suggest that if you want to win her back, at least temporarily, then this should be your approach.
1) Force her to make a choice, and make the choice of coming home the easier choice. Do anything in your power to get rid of her affair partner. Confront him and make him worry. Keep it legal but make is so that your wife is a lot of trouble/inconvenience/conflict/cost to him. He should be very afraid of you.
Make the affair difficult and costly for your wife: cancel her phone and internet. Cut off all money. Cut off the car/gas. You bring home the groceries, she doesnt need anything else. She can then either leave, or file for divorce. She will need someone else to give her money to accomplish either of these. Get legal advice, know more than she knows, make her think that her affair will leave her with every other weekend, no alimony and her paying child support. Even in no-fault states, her half-time cohabitation can be used to all but eliminate alimony and can give you a lot of leverage for custody.
2) Regain her respect You have demonstrated to your wife that you are a good provider/servant, however I think she feels that she is dominant in your relationship in terms of sexual market value. Her affair partner is a loser, but you are paying for her to be with him. That makes you lower than him too. I doubt she sees you as having any sexual value whatsoever. This is the key to making her WANT to come back. You need to show high value as a dominant male, who has sexual value to women.
Make yourself be more dominant in your relationship. That doesnt mean be mean or angry, that means be calm and firm and in control in all interactions with her. Do not let her emotions affect you or sway you. Pick your reasonable boundaries (she cant leave and come back, no talking to him from your home, no gas or money for her trip etc) and enforce them without compromise or discussion.
3) build attraction Make yourself more physically attractive and let her know you have other options besides her. Without warning, start changing your appearance. New haircut. New cologne. Contact lenses. Buy a new wardrobe. Try to dress to look like you are 10 years younger, 2x as wealthy, and 2 levels more formal for all occasions.
Start working out with heavy lifting focusing on your core, arms and back to boost your testosterone and aim for a torso with the golden ratio shoulders 1.62x your waist. Squats, deadlift, bench, pullups - at high intesity intervals. Lose fat through diet (no grains, no dairy, no sugar), dont do cardio, NO JOGGING. I dont know what "vitamins" you started, but start taking DHEA and creatine to get a jumpstart, and talk to your doctor about testosterone supplements. DOnt take normal range as OK - the normal range is a huge range that half of men fall into. A youngish healthy male should be at least at the top of this range. A magical thing happens to men in your situation when they suddenly get higher levels of testosterone; most of their problems somehow disappear on their own.
Do the 180 GAL steps. Build interests outside of family that brings you in contact with other people, and women. This doesnt mean you are prowling for dates, but when she is at home expecting you to make dinner, you head out to go to the gym or drinks with friends, or a meet-up, and then say nothing about it.
3) Demonstrate your ability to fulfill her emotional needs. Your wife seems to be a physical touch/affirmation type person, so you can be there to give it to her. Go ahead and physically pursue her and give her SPECIFIC compliments/rewards. But dont put too much emotional stock into it. Do not pursue with desperation, pleading, or give her any indication of you pedestalizing her. Do not say anything to indicate you love/idolize her or that she is a good person/wife/mother. Right now she is not. Tell her something limited, try to infuse it with humor, bonus points for an occasional compliment wrapped in a slight back-handed put down.
If she rejects physical advances or the specific compliments, deflect it with humor and indifference. You are a man with testosterone and sexual energy and value, she can either accept your advances and desires or not. If she doesn't then deflect it with humor - she is missing out, or she couldn't handle it etc. Her loss. No sweat to you, you can find other things to interest you. Laugh at something on your phone, head out to the gym. And then come right back to it.
So basically, my advice is based on the fact that I dont think you are going to stop what you are doing in terms of pursuing and supporting her. So if you are going to do that, fine, but you MUST also undertake the MORE important actions of a) plan a type "sticks" of attacking the affair AND b) address her loss of sexual and personal desire and respect for you that has happened due to your lack of reaction thus far.
Also, I think if you spend enough time on the board you can sometimes turn what was a reasonably good marriage into an aweful one once everyone hammers all the things you mention.
Honestly I don't disagree with you on this. Frankly my M was good, there's no question in my mind it was good. Was it great? No, not for either of us. I suspect my sitch has more to do with perimenopause than anything I did wrong. I am 100% convinced that my W did more wrong in our M than I did. But, I can't do anything about perimenopause and I can't do anything about what my W did wrong, I only have control over myself and my actions, and that's where DB places the focus. I don't think anyone here is saying your M sucked or that you were a dreadful H, we're just saying that you have to take stock of what you did wrong and do 180's on those things, because that is all you have control over.
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You start to blame yourself for all that happened, because that is how you are told you will find your faults and be able to work on them.
I think it gets said quite often here that this isn't about blame, it's about owning your issues. Most here aren't trying to lay blame, they're just trying to get you to see the areas you need to work on.
Regarding the rest of your post, let me just caution you that I think you still only hear what you want to hear and you explain everything else away as conflicting, misguided, or outright bad advice. Just keep in mind that there are several different approaches, so the ones that don't match your "chosen" approach are not necessarily bad. Remember cheeseless tunnels, the approach you're on now may turn out to be one, and if it is, then you have to abandon it and take another tunnel. So don't dismiss the other ideas and approaches, just say "thanks but I'm trying this one first." Because you may find yourself on another path later.
And keep in mind that while DB'ing is about "doing what works", it's also about constantly evaluating and adjusting as needed. So what works today may not be working anymore next month and a change may be needed. So try to stay flexible.
Good luck to you, I think you've grown a lot since your sitch started. Keep it up!
This is the kind of information I have been looking for since the beginning. I have read the theory of sex rank which is kind of what you are referring to when you say sex value.
According to what I have read about sex rank, my rank was very high when we first met, where as hers was low. I was essentially a "catch" for her.
However, over the years, my sex rank has dropped while hers has gone up. At least in her mind anyway. The theory states that doing things like being the sole bread winner and bringing home the money, and then letting your wife make the essential decisions, not enforcing your own opinions at least sometimes, etc slowly erode your sex rank.
Thank you for the tips. I really want to start some heavy weight training because like you said it seems to solve all the problems naturally. you get your mind of your sitch, you start to look really REALLY good to your WAW, your testosterone starts to naturally rise, you gain sex rank, and then you begin to assume the alpha role and stand up to your wife, thereby eroding her sex rank and turning the table. its interesting stuff =)
Me, H-34 now 38 W-32 now 35 T-13 now 18 years M-6 now 9 Daughter 3 years now 7 Bomb 11/27/12 - OM 1 year in house separation Reconciliation 12/2013. Healed now 2017
AnotherStander, THANK YOU. I will take that as a compliment.
I am much more aware of what advise to take now. You know what I'm talking about!
Me, H-34 now 38 W-32 now 35 T-13 now 18 years M-6 now 9 Daughter 3 years now 7 Bomb 11/27/12 - OM 1 year in house separation Reconciliation 12/2013. Healed now 2017
I mean I am careful not to take advise from someone who is a noob, or someone who is offering advise from a place of "bitterness" or anyone who believes they know EXACTLY what I need to do. I have learned that with some questions that Laurie asked me, she was able to devise a plan that seems to be working, at least seems to be making our interactions more positive.
All of us here on the board when giving advise, are looking at the situation through our own sitches if that makes sense. I will give you an example. A woman who's husband has cheated on her numerous times and treats her very badly, and has never shown any respect for her whether before BD or after BD. At some point she will reach a conclusion that cheating spouses are all the same. They are the same to some extent, but I think the degree to which someone cheats, the ease with which they tell lies, the way they treated you before BD, the way they treat you after BD etc.. all need to be taken into account before we can determine if they are the same.
So, that woman will come and offer a man advise (already tricky because what works for me is not at all the same as for women) about how you shouldn't allow your S any room, and that your boundaries should be so tight around you that they would drive even the most living spouse away from you. Those are good boundaries for a serial man cheater, not so good for a one time confused WAW. At least this is what I have deduced and again I might be wrong, or some may not agree with me, and perhaps later in my sitch I will see the similarities but right now I think each sitch needs to be evaluated on its own, with the characters of each person involved taken into consideration, and NOT from through the lens of our own sith or personal experience.
Me, H-34 now 38 W-32 now 35 T-13 now 18 years M-6 now 9 Daughter 3 years now 7 Bomb 11/27/12 - OM 1 year in house separation Reconciliation 12/2013. Healed now 2017
HOWEVER, as I said before, the advise from the veterans has been stellar. You guys always give several options of how to approach something, and then you say choose the approach that best suits you and your W.
MrBond, Leo, Starsky, Sandi, 25, Adinva, I have gotten good advise from many. But if you look at a few of my recent pages, you will see some jump in that have not follow my sitch but seem to know exaclty what I should do. I hesitate to act on what they say now.
Me, H-34 now 38 W-32 now 35 T-13 now 18 years M-6 now 9 Daughter 3 years now 7 Bomb 11/27/12 - OM 1 year in house separation Reconciliation 12/2013. Healed now 2017
Do you overanalyze and create elaborate rules around everything you do?
It has been said here before, and elsewhere, you may not like or agree with every piece of advise you get here in these forums. You're welcome to take it or leave it, or take the parts that resonate with you.
It's the elaborate justification of specifically which people, which gender, what background or success level, you are willing to listen to, because you know best, that makes people throw their hands up at what looks like arrogance and ignorance.
I really do hope you and your wife work things out.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
Warning: wrong gender and nonsuccessful outcome disclaimer.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
