I finally found out about some of his affairs

[too trusting]

To me, you're saying, in effect, that no matter what HE does to you or behind your back, you will stay married to him. I mean, short of physically abusing you, this is accurate, correct?

AND BTW, who said you'd be alone? You are not alone when he's gone, are you? What's with that fear based choice making of yours? And you assume that any/all OWs would marry him AND that they would be happy?

And that if they are happy that means what about YOU? Please read up on detachment. HIS happiness is not relevant to yours if you divorce.

But I'm reading that you'll stay married to him pretty much no matter what...that's what I'm reading TT. You tell me if I have it right or misunderstand

(or if it's just too scary to see that^^ in writing).

But It's true, isn't it? He can do anything he wants with OWs and you'll stay with him...right?

Well – it’s not exactly the way you describe it. but I appreciate the input.

It’s not “fear”. I just don’t see any advantage to being divorced. And on the other hand, I would lose out on the few advantages that I do have from my current marriage.

First, we run a business together. How would that work if we divorced? Believe me, my input is important for our business, even though we do have a secretary aka “office manager” who does an ok job, but still my input is important. I can see the difference when I am travelling and not accessible for a day. So if we divorced, I would either need to leave the business (and my absence would be felt, and that would harm me since I am expecting to continue getting income from the business) or I would need to continue to work with my ex – yikes! I CANNOT see that working!

Also, there are times when I need his advice, whether for a household or family matter, and he does give intelligent advice. I have had occasion to compare the advice I have gotten from him, to the advice I have gotten from friends and relatives, and his advice is better, darnit. He has an analytical mind. It’s not for nothing that he is a “big expert” in his field.

And – yes, we have been together for all of our adult life, and raised a family together.

By “alone” I didn’t mean “alone alone”. Yes, I have friends, I have my kids and grandkids, and I spend time with them, go out places, etc. I have my astronomy and tutoring and they keep me busy and give me a lot of satisfaction from helping people. But I don’t have to get divorced for that.

What I meant by “alone”, that was a euphemism for saying that I do not expect to find another husband. Besides the examples of my cousins, there is also the example of my sister, 3 years older than me and widowed for 3 years. She retired from her high-level business job and spends her time with her kids and grandkids. I don’t see her dating at all. And she is a “go-getter”.

On the other hand, I don’t think he would remarry if we divorced. He would continue “playing the field”, although I suppose he would have fewer excuses to give the OW’s. I can guarantee that none of them measures up to me. And I’m not bragging. I just know who we’re talking about.

Divorcing him would just mean that he would continue to do the same but would really do it in my face, and I would have nothing to say about it. After all, if we are divorced, he owes me nothing. And this would make things better for me how? Because I am "free" to date non-existent suitors?

So I don’t see any advantages for me in getting a divorce, but I do see advantages for him (once he gets past the fact that his name would be ruined in our family and community).

Can you give me three+ examples of how you would treat him differently?

Be as specific as possible please.

Well, basically I would detach. I would be looking at an unofficial separation, not a “legal separation” or anything official, but I would stop doing all the little supportive things I do for him.

I would not bother to be available to chat with him, watch movies together (which is more important to him than to me), etc. I would not share “my day” or my thoughts or opinions with him, and would not be available for hearing his. I would not do all the little errands that he doesn’t like to do. I would continue to do the minimum that is necessary for our business, but not with the extra “above and beyond” for his benefit and comfort that I have been doing till now. Basically it is the “After the LRT”.

It doesn’t sound like a lot. But I know it would make a difference. He’s a cake-eater, and I’d be taking that off the table. And if, as a result, he did have an “awakening” and realize what he is losing, that would be a lot easier to fix if we are “unofficially separated” than if we were in the process of getting divorced. “Keep the road paved….” etc.

So, why am I not already doing this? Because he claims he is being faithful. And I don’t have any evidence to the contrary, just bits and pieces that don’t really prove anything. And if he is being faithful, then boycotting him as if he is unfaithful would ruin our last chance to fix our marriage. So I can’t do this unless I am sure.

[quote=too trusting]I am pretty sure he would not want a divorce, because then the whole story would come out.

So his shame could keep him with you, at least for appearances sake? How would that feel to you?

That’s not what I meant. What I meant was that because of this factor, I am not concerned that he might suddenly decide to leave me for one of the OW’s. Yes, I am aware that this is due to his own selfish motives.

Also, while actually getting a divorce would not really give me any advantage, the fact that divorce has this drawback for him, could be a motivator for getting him to change, i.e. stop cheating, if he is still doing that.

If he were to marry Christi Brinkley.... [or if] he marries an OW who appears for all intents and purposes to be a "loser"... wouldn't that also make you feel bad? (So you see, either way, what HE chooses can make you feel lousy if you let it.)

Well, yeah, that’s one of the problems I currently have. At first I thought that he was seeing other women because our clients are mostly “career women”, the type who go around in high heels and uncomfortable but stylish clothes and spend an hour every morning on their hair and makeup. And I’m more “casual”. I’m ok but not “glamorous”. And I thought, at first, that maybe that was the reason he was looking elsewhere, because even if I tried I would not look like a fashion model.

Then I found out who some of these OW’s were – and they were definitely not the “glamorous” ones. Yes, some of them were total losers. So how did that make me feel? Right, even worse. Either way I feel lousy about it.

I don’t know what to do about it, though. Yes, I realize (logically) that it reflects on him a lot more than it reflects on me. But the "logical realization" doesn’t help me when I start feeling rejected.

OTOH, what happens if YOU find a man who treats you well? A man who sees your gifts as important or interesting (maybe an astronomy guy) and is attracted to you...and faithful to you? What about that possibility?

It’s a nice dream, but for various logistic reasons that I’d rather not go into here, it is highly unlikely that I would meet someone who is available and not looking for a nurse. not because of me, but because of demographics.

Are you hoping that when he's no longer able to cheat, THEN he'll be faithful b/c he has no choice?

No, I’m actually hoping that this “After the LRT” will shake him up a lot sooner than that, and make him realize what he is about to lose. No, I wouldn’t let it go that long, till he is “not able to cheat”. And I don’t think he would let it go that long either.

Also, when I say that he is cheating, it’s not just the PA’s but the EA’s also. I know (from the emails I’ve seen) that he was a lot nicer to the OW’s than he is to me. And that really bothers me.

OTOH if he is being faithful, then at some point, you'll have to stop worrying about it. Can't hold it over his head or throw it in his face when you fight.

Well, yeah, that’s the thing. If I could be sure that he is now being faithful, then I would calm down right away. Like, really right away. What is eating me up inside is that in many ways he is behaving like he still has something to hide. That is the only reason I am still worrying about it.

However, the way you described his behavior, it sounds as if he never really "got it" as to how hurt you were.

Right

Were there any tears on his end? Any genuine signs of true remorse? Not at getting caught, but b/c of hurting you?

Nope

You think shame will be effective as a way to keep him, yet you also don't want to admit that to him or be seen as threatening exposure?

No, more like – this is the natural consequence of his behavior, and I am sure he is aware of that, but it would be wrong and counterproductive for me to phrase it as a threat, as if *I* am threatening him.

"when a man feels guilt, long enough, he attacks"... If they don't get forgiven and allowed to drop the issue

Again, that is why I want to know one way or the other, so I would not be dragging out the heavy artillery for something that might just be my own “hypervigilance”.

"I do not think you should make it harder for him to regain your trust, (b/c you need to keep the road home, paved and smooth)

but at this point, he's doing virtually nothing to earn it. He appears to EXPECT you to believe him...as if he's never lied before. That's not realistic or fair or loving, imo.

Yes, exactly

[quote=too trusting]at this point in my life, I would not be able to support myself on my own.

That's not true if you are in the USA. You clearly need to see a divorce attorney.

Yes, we are in the US, and we’re in a community property state. But, I know nothing about how it applies to other aspects aside from our assets. e.g. he is probably not responsible for my income, since our children are grown, and if so I would have difficulty making ends meet. He would probably not have any responsibility towards my mother, either, and that is a big expense. My earning ability is very low because I haven’t developed an independent career, and my available time is limited because of the things I need to do for my mother. (Even with a full-time caregiver, there are a lot of things I need to do also.)

I did call the local bar association referral service, though, and have an appointment for a 30-min consultation tomorrow with a family law atty.

For a moment, assume that you'd be fine financially, even if divorced. Assume that you'd only have your expenses, that you'd do perfectly well in a slightly smaller home OR that you'd get the home...just for a minute, assume you'd have enough to live well.

NOW how do you see your marital situation?

But if he is not cheating, we could rehabilitate the other parts of our marriage. In the scenario you describe, I suppose I would be ok, but would be sorry for having broken up the marriage if it was not necessary.

1) You want to KNOW he's being faithful, and

2) if not, then you would want out. IF this is true, then what keeps you with him is the chance that he's being faithful, and financial fears.

So address those two^^ concerns.

well, I am going to talk with an atty tomorrow, so I should have more information on the financial side. (I don't know if it would be good news though.)

as for whether or not he is currently faithful, let me recap what I understand from various parts of your response -
1) the only way to be *sure* about this is to get a PI. (which I would hesitate to do because it's somewhat invasive to snoop like that. not to mention probably costs a fortune. I was hoping there is some other way.)
2) on the other hand, part of the problem is that he is not making any of the other motions that would be expected from a repentant, now-honest spouse. i.e. - he would be sorry not just about getting caught, but because I was hurt, would show me kindness and understanding, would not get angry when I ask him questions, would not act like he has something to hide, etc - and if he would be doing these things I wouldn't need to hire a PI? or am I stupid to believe him, ever?

That is where your focus ought to be, AND on creating a new happier life without him, which you can do b/c he's been gone a lot over the years.

You know how to be happy without him. Keep doing that.

Yes