almost 3 months....seems like eternity

[swoop]

I see some evidence of growth, but it seems to me, when you get stressed or things are not smooth and easy with your wife or if you don't feel hopeful, you revert to some very negative traits.]/quote] you are right. I have grown a fair amount, but I still need work. Reverting to those traits is one of the things I need to master. Overall, I am a better man. This much I know.

[quote=25yearsmlc]
those traits are NOT small flaws to work on. It means it was damn hard to be around you.
What's it mean to "try to work on it"? Are you working on it or not?

yes, I am absolutely working on it, and I feel I have made some good progress. Without a doubt, I guess I could have been damn hard to be around at times...."SOME" times. This negative trait does not paint an entire picture of me. I also posess some very positive traits as well.

Are you Reading up and getting counselling, or going to anger management or what? And how is that going? B/C to me, you sound angry and punitive pretty often.

I am still using my DB coach. I am reading a fair amount. I have discontinued seeing my IC, as I was seeing no measurable help and the cost was significant. I am not angry all that often, and when I am more of a passive agressive type. I do not lash out violently or phsycially by any means. I will agree that I can be punitive fairly often. These are just some of the things I am working on to better myself.

Granted you've only been here a few months but dang, please take in what we are saying. Did you truly read Another Stander's and others posts to you?

I really do consider everyones input. I try as best as I can to comprehend it and absorb it.

You cannot be "hypercritical" and be loving at the same time. It's not loving behavior. Period.

Perhaps you are right, but at the same time they are two completely different behaviors. I don't fully beleive that one cancels out the other. Regardless, I am working on being less critical, especially pertaining to things that should not matter in the big scheme of things.

I think most people would consider us the sarcastic bickering couple. We nit pick each other constantly..........
Really, I guess our biggest problem is just engaging each other and communicating our needs and feelings. We tend to walk on each others feelings instead of lifting them up.


My wife never belittles me or yells. She has simply stated that she thinks we have lost our connection and we are now incompatible.

See the use of the word "we" and "our", and how you describe many of the traits of a "couple" in your wording...but it's NOT her who belittles or yells...in fact she "never" does that. Only you do.

No, she actual does her fair share of nit picking. She argues. She bickers. She is sarcastic, and she walks on my feelings because she is not any better than I am at communicating....all of the things I mentioned.

And not telling her she's pretty enough, means you don't compliment her or give her words of affirmation. (Probably b/c you are hypercritical). If words of affirmation are one of her love languages, then that tank of hers is empty too. Do you know her love languages? I hope you'll read the book "The Five Love Languages" if you have not already.

You are absolutely right. I have not read the book, but I have taken the quiz. I believe my wifes main LL to be words of affirmation. I have been doing some soul searching as to why I did not express my love for her verbally more often. The best I can come up with is my LL is also words of affirmation and perhaps I was score keeping FAR too much. I am really focusing on expressing myself to others in a more positive way. This is where I really need some work.

First, regarding wifes finances. For the last 6 years, since D was born, my W has done in home childcare. She made a pretty tidy little income doing this, and it allowed her to be a SAHM and work as well. We shared all of our home expenses. Her childcare option ended right before BD, leaving her without work literally when we separated. She had been seaking work religously leading up to this point. She had a couple very disapointing interviews where she was not hired and she thought she was a shoe in. She was very discouraged by this. She did begin working a PT job at an insurance company where she makes 500 a month shortly after BD. She is working very hard towards becoming a license agent. She tests this month.

From your words here, she is working very hard...but now, you just have to spin it negatively...and mind read and it's not ever in a positive way. This is a serious pattern of yours, NOT to pass on to your d...

While I do 100% agree with you in regards to that beng a bad trait to pass on to my D...I do not fully understand what you mean. How am I spinning it into something negative? I don't fully understand what you mean.

then what comes next, below?

I think INSERT A NEGATIVE REASON HERE....that is a partial reason why she has been friendly and quiet in regards to the living situation. She knows if she stirred the divorce pot, I would ask her to leave.


Because that's just the type of man I am...I'm NOT punitive or critical & I don't have to be "right."....oh wait that is you...

This is something I am struggling with right now. WHY wouldn't I ask someone to leave who was wanting to divorce me? By not being part of the marriage or relationship, because she chooses to leave the family unit.... her choice to do so, why exactly would I be punitive by not supporting her?

Now, I do actually want to hurt her financially. Not because I want her life to be difficult, but mostly to give her a wakeup call of what is to come.
[color:#CC0000]
wow...Just, wow...2 things leap to my mind...1) it's NOT a spouse's job to teach a lesson/show her the consequences of her choices. Life does that. Not a loving spouse...

2) THINK... when HER costs go up for living on your family's land or wherever she gets it cheaply now, then YOUR costs for support will go up too. She's not just saving herself money by those choices; she's saving YOU and "the family unit" you care so much about, money.

1) I agree with you. I was wrong for thinking it was up to me to show her.

2) I disagree, simply based on what my likely support would be based on divorce and our finances. I would be literally saving hundreds every month. Who knows, maybe I would even be able to pay all of my own bills that I am falling behind in currently????

You say "We live a very nice life..." but who was living that "nice life"? Not her.

No absolutely her, and me as well. She had great working conditions here. She was paid a salary which she was not qualified for. She made her own hours. She worked from our home, often in her PJ's while watching TV or entertaining. She had freedom to spend as much time with our D as she would like, even during business days or hours. We both drive nice cars, beautiful home. She was able to come and go as she pleased. I never held her back from doing the things she enjoyed. That is a nice life in my book. After/IF we divorce, life WILL be considerably different for both of us.

As for "things changing" for her financially the minute she splits, and your desire for that,

my question is, and therefore...what? She'll be on the streets so then she'll run back to you faster?

Do you think if those were the reasons, & you were the same man she left, that she'd come back and stay??

No absolutely not. Again, my reasoning to ask her to move is for MY benefit, so I can heal, so I can pay my bills, so my daughter is not caught in the middle, nor our friends. It is not a tactic to get her back.

Here's the deal, as I see it.

The only way she'll come home and stay, is

IF/WHEN she believes marriage to you can be better/different than before.

How are you, at your core, any better/different than before? How have you SHOWN her that marriage to you, from this day forward, can be happier?

Again, I agree with you. That is likely the only reason she would want to return. in regards to how I have changed, I am still a work in progress. I am getting better and working more every day. As you know it takes time to make these things permanent, and I am staying focused for the long haul. I am not really sure how I have shown her that things can be better. To be honest, I haven't really tried to show her. I guess, during our conversations she will hear me being less critical, more friendly in my tone. She has undoubtedly noticed that I am phsyically better looking. I am taking more care of myself and dressing better. She knows I am attending church and socilizing more. She has literally mentioned how much I have stepped up my game as a parent, and I was a pretty good parent before this! I think she would see all of those things as a positive, but I am not sure.

How is that "personal growth" thing going? You know, the part where you work on YOU and your flaws? Stop the negative mind reading at once.

If a bad thing is going to happen or the other shoe will drop, LET IT. Don't expect it so much that you make it happen.

I need more work on negative mind reading. I still do that alot.

Most of your comments about your wife are still demeaning, critical or angry.

You hurt her a lot already over the years...isn't that clear to you by now? Did you ever truly get that, and sincerely apologize for it?

I have apologized for it, and I did get it. I did not realize that I was still expressing myself towards her in a demeaning, critical or angry way. I clearly need to work on that. Thank you for pointing it out.

You also discuss her as if she's "just crazy" like other [b]typical WAWs.[/i].
In fact you express your anger a lot here. That's only fine if it's venting AND that venting ends...but what some folks call "venting" is really just spiralling and festering

so if you don't have a productive way to PROCESS AND LOSE THE ANGER, (for which you need new tools!)

then what's there for her to return to, that she didn't just leave?

And how is this showing her a fair or loving man? is this how you want to treat the mother of your child?

No I do not wish to treat my W this way. I need MORE work.

What happened to the goal of YOU CHANGING YOU, and becoming a loving h to her? What happened to "Becoming a man only a fool would leave..."?

I am trying to get there...I really am.


25 yearsmlc, Thank you SOOOOOOO much for your insightful look into me. It really took me aback at how well you see it. I truly am doing my best, but having someone with an outside, unbiased opinion like your own is a priceless tool for self growth. A lot of these things i simply do not see by looking in the mirror. Your words help me considerably. I cannot say "thank you" enough for the time and effort you spent. With that said, I really need to get back to work...on myself