almost 3 months....seems like eternity

[jzoom]

You wanted a sign, so, I'll hand one to you. The fact you can still hurt her is a sign. It doesn't mean she'll be willing to allow you to continue hurting her, but right now...you are still capable of saying words about her that cuts deeply. If the day ever comes that nothing you say affects her at all....then there is no hope. Heeeeeere's your sign.

Remember, it's not about whether or not you have "reason", but how you choose to act.

^^^^^^^^^^^This speaks volumes to me^^^^^^^^^^

Please pay attention to this SP...I know I am...

[swoop]

I haven't posted for a few days. to be honest, I have really been thinking about my goals. I am not sure if I want to continue to live like this. yesterday, my wife was out visiting with friends on our property while I was trying to do the same. We avoided each other and kept our distance, but it was a bit awkward. Daughter was not happy when it was time for us to leave, because she didn't understand that today was "daddy's day to have her". W was making dinner for our friends and their kids. Daughter and I were not invited. That is really not fair to my little girl! Therefore, I've been thinking more and more about asking her to move on, regardless of her financial situation she just needs to find her own place to be. Thus far, she has made zero effort to establish her own living situation and medical insurance. It doesn't seem fair to me, that I have to feel awkward in my own home/property/business and continue to pay her freight at the same time. This was her choice, and it may be time for her to feel the actual consequences. I think having no contact with her, not seeing her drive up, not accidentally running into her in the driveway, etc. will make my healing process much easier as well. The only side effect from this will be her anger for throwing her out on the street, which will more than likely hurt our chances of R'ing. Truthfully, I don't foresee us getting back together based on her attitude since day one, so the worry of reconciling may be a moot point. I do not see an opertunity where her feelings towards our marriage will change, at least not any time soon. Unfortunately, I am not willing to wait much longer given our current living situation. I definitely do not want my estragend W living over the top of my business with literally thousands of my customers seeing and knowing what is going on all season long.

The only change I have noticed lately is W has been sharing a little more with me when she calls to speak with D. The other day she was telling me about going snow skiing with friends that she met on new years eve. (I have been asking her to go skiing with D and I for a few years, she has always declined.) I listened to her story, and I was upbeat and interested, but the whole time I'm thinking to myself "goodbye goodbye, I really don't want to hear what a fun time you're having without us". Last week she phoned and shared with me that she passed her final on her insurance test and scored a 91. All she has left is the state exam. She already has a job to slip right into full time. Again, I was upbeat and interested. I expressed that I was proud of her. The last few phone conversations have gone like this. I don't understand the reason she wants to share now. Perhaps the pursue/retreat dynamic, but I am not sure. I have definitely not been reaching out to her. unfortunately, her desire to initiate contact or engage me stops there. We only communicate when she is phoning to speak with D or about D.

last night I had a poor sleep, worrying about my marriage situation and trying to get a handle on her mindset, which I know is impossible. It was the first bad sleep I have had in a while, no doubt because of the contact with W during the day.

As a last attempt, I felt I would offer her an opertunity to be included in an activity with D and I. We all have the entire day off, today. I texted W and asked if she would like to spend the day with us. She texted back that she was trying to sleep off a headache and that we should go on without her. She, "might call when she woke up". Well, that was it for me. I WILL NOT be offering any more activities. I see no reason to put forth the effort anymore. I am simply going to detach, pull back and work solely on myself. My daughter and I will be my only focus at this point. I am not sure if that is what is considered "dropping the rope", doing the "LRT" or simply "Not DBing" any longer. I think I am basically giving up, but being cordial towards her. I have worked on my own issues and feel I am making good gains. I still need to turn them into a permanent part of me, but that will come in time. I will not stop working on myself, and I will continue to journal and share on here. Divorce Busters is a part of me now

[swoop]

^^^^^^^^^^^This speaks volumes to me^^^^^^^^^^

Please pay attention to this SP...I know I am...

I paid attention to it when Sandi mentioned it, mostly because I try to pay attention to EVEYTHING Sandi says...haha.
It really makes sense, but to be honest it doesn't mean much. I say that because I know people that I DISLIKE who can spark emotion in me with negative stuff....Therefore, I have to keep it in perspective

[sandi2]

Wow! You went from nearly dying to have a sign to deciding to kick her out in three days?

So, if you are giving up......as you say, what do you wish to accomplish by kicking her out of the apartment over your business?

[swoop]

I wasn't really dying to have a sign, Sandi. I simply said it would be easier for me to continue if I had a sign. I was at the point of giving up even then, and I was looking for something to hold on to.

In regards to what I will accomplish is roughly this:

$700-$800 a month in support I am paying to keep a roof over her head and insurance on her behind. I will also not have to see her, or feel awkward that I might at any given moment, on my own property. My daughter will not feel a sense of tuggle war every time friends/customers/family are here, but her parents have different visiting days. I will not have customers wondering why my wife is living alone in our old apartment, which literally does not look good for business. Only a business owner will understand this one, but it is true. Lastly, by not having her directly under my nose, I will have a much easier time detaching and moving forward with my own life. That is what I think I will gain by asking her to move on with her choice to "move on". Am I happy that I feel I have to consider doing this? No I am not. Ideally I would like to rebuild our marriage and keep my family intact. For obvious reasons, my W would have to be on board with that. She is not. Will there be any negative effects from my decision? There probally will be. However, I am not 100% sure what they will be. I can see it being a negative towards Reconciling, but to what degree I am not sure. Maybe you can help me a little more with some input????

[labug]

Just so you know you sound very angry. And that's fine but everything you bring up is within your control to change and most of it isn't about her.

A headache seems like a little thing to kick her out over but I guess that's what the WA is reacting to when they BD, little drips of water over time and finally the dam breaks.

[swoop]

Just so you know you sound very angry.

I don't feel angry. I really don't. Trust me, this is not in response to her having a headache. I am not throwing a tantrum. It is not a sudden change of heart I had over the last 3 days. This is a decision I have had on my mind for a couple months now. I even mentioned it in my first thread. I gave myself a goal of March 1st, when we first separated.

everything you bring up is within your control to change and most of it isn't about her.

What can I do to control these things?

[swoop]

I can see very clearly that I need to think more about this. I truly value all of your opinions and it doesn't sound like we are in agreement. With that said, I am going to spend some more time reflecting on this and see if it is something I am considering for the wrong reasons. perhaps I am not seeing the forest for the trees.

I would really appreciate some input. I am going to take a step back and try to look at the bigger picture before I do anything.

I don't know what I would do without all of you. Thanks

[eyesopen]

Suckerpunch,

Sometimes we just need a little nudge back on the patience train. We all know this is the most difficult thing to go through. It seems to me that one of the most recurring aspects of those who reconciled, is it didn't happen overnight.

I know I have days where I would like to be with someone. Although that comes when I am feeling lonely. Then I think about how much I miss my children being here when I get home. It gives me strength to keep digging, to keep growing, so that I may have that chance again. I could give up return to the old me, but that would pretty much seal my fate. Keep working, dig a little deeper and find a new level of patience. It is in you, it's in all of us.

[25yearsmlc]

I read your whole thread. You have posted a lot and I hope you have grown a lot. I know you WANT to stay married...but when it gets hard...so does your attitude.

I see some evidence of growth, but it seems to me, when you get stressed or things are not smooth and easy with your wife or if you don't feel hopeful, you revert to some very negative traits. You need positive role models of new behavior for handling stress.

Life ALWAYS throws us curve balls and if you always get nasty or critical or mind read or see things negatively, you'll be alone a lot. There are a lot of tools out there for real growth. Workshops and therapy (with good t's).

In your first thread here, YOU said this about YOU: [b]"I'm Hypercritical by nature & I am hypercritical by nature and usually feel that I have to argue and win every conversation.

I know this is a problem I have, and I am trying to work on it[/b]

SP, with all due respect and knowing you are in pain, I feel I must say this once...

those traits are NOT small flaws to work on. It means it was damn hard to be around you.
What's it mean to "try to work on it"? Are you working on it or not?

Are you Reading up and getting counselling, or going to anger management or what? And how is that going? B/C to me, you sound angry and punitive pretty often.

Granted you've only been here a few months but dang, please take in what we are saying. Did you truly read Another Stander's and others posts to you?

Take it in, not just the easy parts... b/c when it stings, it usually means there's validity to at least part of what was said. PROCESS THAT.

I found some traits in me I did NOT like. Resentment was a biggie.

Getting rid of it and not building new ones, was a huge feat for me. NOT EASY... Don't think I found zero demons to fight inside me, b/c I found some.

It's not easy but sometimes it's darn simple. For instance, You cannot be "hypercritical" and be loving at the same time. It's not loving behavior. Period.

You also said, in your first thread,

Her biggest complaint in our marriage is my arguing.


Then you said, (emphasis mine)

My wife also complains that I do not validate her, say she's pretty often enough or lift up her spirits, which is true to a point....

...She has been extremely loyal to me throughout our relationship and she is a fantastic mother. I just worry that she can be put into "single type" situation that would not be good for her. I also feel that she party's a little too often.

Perhaps, most of the problem is just my own insecurity.

I think most people would consider us the sarcastic bickering couple. We nit pick each other constantly..........
Really, I guess our biggest problem is just engaging each other and communicating our needs and feelings. We tend to walk on each others feelings instead of lifting them up.


My wife never belittles me or yells. She has simply stated that she thinks we have lost our connection and we are now incompatible.


See the use of the word "we" and "our", and how you describe many of the traits of a "couple" in your wording...but it's NOT her who belittles or yells...in fact she "never" does that. Only you do.

And not telling her she's pretty enough, means you don't compliment her or give her words of affirmation. (Probably b/c you are hypercritical). If words of affirmation are one of her love languages, then that tank of hers is empty too. Do you know her love languages? I hope you'll read the book "The Five Love Languages" if you have not already.

Hmmm.....lots to think about and a TON to share right now.

First, regarding wifes finances. For the last 6 years, since D was born, my W has done in home childcare. She made a pretty tidy little income doing this, and it allowed her to be a SAHM and work as well. We shared all of our home expenses. Her childcare option ended right before BD, leaving her without work literally when we separated. She had been seaking work religously leading up to this point. She had a couple very disapointing interviews where she was not hired and she thought she was a shoe in. She was very discouraged by this. She did begin working a PT job at an insurance company where she makes 500 a month shortly after BD. She is working very hard towards becoming a license agent. She tests this month.

From your words here, she is working very hard...but now, you just have to spin it negatively...and mind read and it's not ever in a positive way. This is a serious pattern of yours, NOT to pass on to your d...

then what comes next, below?

I think INSERT A NEGATIVE REASON HERE....that is a partial reason why she has been friendly and quiet in regards to the living situation. She knows if she stirred the divorce pot, I would ask her to leave.


Because that's just the type of man I am...I'm NOT punitive or critical & I don't have to be "right."....oh wait that is you...


Now, I do actually want to hurt her financially. Not because I want her life to be difficult, but mostly to give her a wakeup call of what is to come.

wow...Just, wow...2 things leap to my mind...1) it's NOT a spouse's job to teach a lesson/show her the consequences of her choices. Life does that. Not a loving spouse...

2) THINK... when HER costs go up for living on your family's land or wherever she gets it cheaply now, then YOUR costs for support will go up too. She's not just saving herself money by those choices; she's saving YOU and "the family unit" you care so much about, money.

Or did you just want to make sure she suffered more? See, I think it's the latter. I think if you could, you'd put her on the streets...and maybe never once think you were not a great h...

Here are words from AnotherStander I hope you'll take in...he said them to you and Spartan echoed them...but here you are, needing to see them again. That's okay, it hasn't been long for you. But please don't continue to make things worse...so, Another Stander said to you:


You are where most of us were at the beginning. "There's nothing wrong with me, I'm a great H who does everything right, there's some kind of affliction with my W and she needs to get it fixed." Stop those thoughts right now. Do some serious soul-searching.

There are reasons your W is a WAW, you need to figure out what those reasons are and do 180's on those things. DB'ing is all about changing the one and only thing you have control over- YOU. Make yourself into a spouse only a fool would leave. And have patience, you've got to show your W consistent changes over a long period of time (months) before she'll start to believe you really have changed.



She says she knows exactly what she is doing, but I honestly don't feel that she realizes how hard this will be financially on the both of us. With my business contributing greatly to our living situation, we have it pretty good. We live a very nice life, nice cars, beautiful home, fun working conditions, while not really making a large income. That will change for her immeidately after we split.



You say "We live a very nice life..." but who was living that "nice life"? Not her.
SHE was living with someone who described himself as being "hypercritical" and a man who always needed to argue and be "right" which was more important than being happy... a man who is fine being judgemental, and quite comfortable bickering or being seen as a sarcastic couple who nitpicks, even though it's not his wife who does any of those things, etc.

So, who was living the NICE LIFE? THEN, interestingly, You listed the THINGS you have to support that statement, and "fun working conditions" (which I assume refers to YOUR job)...but man oh man, I gotta wonder what it'll take for you to see this.

As for "things changing" for her financially the minute she splits, and your desire for that,

my question is, and therefore...what? She'll be on the streets so then she'll run back to you faster?

Do you think if those were the reasons, & you were the same man she left, that she'd come back and stay??

Why would she come home to what she left behind?

Here's the deal, as I see it.

The only way she'll come home and stay, is

IF/WHEN she believes marriage to you can be better/different than before.

How are you, at your core, any better/different than before? How have you SHOWN her that marriage to you, from this day forward, can be happier?



That is it in a nutshell. Ideally, I want to reconcile...more on that later , ugh , but I also don't want to be taken advantage of while my W is just waiting for the right time to drop the hammer on me with divorce. However, morally, I guess that is what I should do, give her support as much as I can.

Thanks for the input. If you have any more, I am all ears!

How is that "personal growth" thing going? You know, the part where you work on YOU and your flaws? Stop the negative mind reading at once.

If a bad thing is going to happen or the other shoe will drop, LET IT. Don't expect it so much that you make it happen.

Most of your comments about your wife are still demeaning, critical or angry.

Do you see that? And saying "it's because I'm hurt" is like saying "when SHE MAKES me mad, I can hit her." Just b/c she causes you pain does NOT make it so you can do it back to her. That's the reasoning of a 6 y/o boy. "He hit me so I hit him...even if he didn't mean to...I still get to b/c that's how I FEEL and I MUST say or do whatever I FEEL" b/c then SP, you are at the mercy of your emotions of the moment, and so is she. That's no way for either of you to live.

You must avail yourself of the many tools we have in our society for relating better and NOT acting out of anger so much.

You hurt her a lot already over the years...isn't that clear to you by now? Did you ever truly get that, and sincerely apologize for it?

You also discuss her as if she's "just crazy" like other typical WAWs.[/i].
In fact you express your anger a lot here. That's only fine if it's venting AND that venting ends...but what some folks call "venting" is really just spiralling and festering

so if you don't have a productive way to PROCESS AND LOSE THE ANGER, (for which you need new tools!)

then what's there for her to return to, that she didn't just leave?

And how is this showing her a fair or loving man? is this how you want to treat the mother of your child?

What happened to the goal of YOU CHANGING YOU, and becoming a loving h to her? What happened to "Becoming a man only a fool would leave..."?