I finally found out about some of his affairs

[25yearsmlc]

25mlc, I appreciate your input.

It’s not that I “don’t mind if I don’t know about it”. It’s the exact opposite. I don’t want to be deceived. I feel so stupid for having been so easily deceived in the past.

The only way I know of, to KNOW if a spouse is cheating or being faithful, is to hire a private detective to follow him around or investigate the emails and other ways of communicating.

Normally I would not support doing this, but if further deceit is a dealbreaker, then I am supportive of it b/c it would change your approach/course of action (in other cases, when the LBS wants to stay regardless of OP and work on themselves, I often wonder about the reason for snooping. In your case, it might make sense).


On the other hand, it is certainly possible that he is being faithful now. He claims that he gave up all the other women “cold turkey” about a year ago, after he showed me his emails; and it is certainly possible that he is telling the truth. Based on other things (e.g. his ability to drastically change his diet when he needed to lower cholesterol), I am sure that giving up his infidelities “cold turkey” is something that he is capable of doing, if he wants to. The question is – does he want to? I don’t know. And I don’t know how to find out if he is now faithful or not. Maybe I am just being “hypervigilant”. Or maybe not. I feel paranoid if I suspect him and stupid if I don’t. But the most important thing for me right now would be – to have some way to *know* one way or the other.

I understand this^^^ but I don't believe you're "paranoid" at all, given the lengthy history and number of affairs you are aware of. If he thinks it's paranoid, that's just a self serving lack of empathy, imo.

As I said previously, if I would find out that he is continuing to see other women, that would be the dealbreaker for me now. The question is, dealbreaker in what way?

Your use of "dealbreaker" is unusual. For ME, dealbreaker means the end of the marriage. (Not saying that makes me "right", but different). If I hear you correctly, for YOU, "dealbreaker" means changing how you react to him. And probably how you view him and integrity, his honesty, etc.



I don’t see any advantage for me right now in getting divorced. I would be alone; he would have no lack of companionship. (I have cousins who divorced and remarried, at a much younger age, and each new husband was 10 years older than the previous one.) So I would simply be taking everything I have worked for over the past 40 years, and handing it to another woman on a silver platter. No point in doing that.


OKAY HERE WE HAVE IT^^...the answer is here in your own words....

To me, you're saying, in effect, that no matter what HE does to you or behind your back, you will stay married to him. I mean, short of physically abusing you, this is accurate, correct?

AND BTW, who said you'd be alone? You are not alone when he's gone, are you? What's with that fear based choice making of yours? And you assume that any/all OWs would marry him AND that they would be happy?

And that if they are happy that means what about YOU? Please read up on detachment. HIS happiness is not relevant to yours if you divorce.

But I'm reading that you'll stay married to him pretty much no matter what...that's what I'm reading TT. You tell me if I have it right or misunderstand

(or if it's just too scary to see that^^ in writing).

But It's true, isn't it? He can do anything he wants with OWs and you'll stay with him...right?




But I would make changes – I would not continue to be there for him as I have been till now. I do a lot of supportive things for him, and I would stop doing those things. I feel really stupid for having been supportive towards him all these years when he was doing these things behind my back.

Can you give me three+ examples of how you would treat him differently?

Be as specific as possible please.

I am pretty sure he would not want a divorce, because then the whole story would come out.


So his shame could keep him with you, at least for appearances sake? How would that feel to you?
Do you see ANY cost to you for this? I'm not referring to the tangibles, but the intangibles.

And btw, just b/c another woman you know (or a few) did not remarry men their age, is not an index for you to expect the same. Are they happy? I have no idea what you look like or how physically active you are, but you sound like an interesting, kind intelligent woman who is active. That's cool to me.

I guess my point is that who cares if HE could find another woman even younger, (especially if he already is having them)?

I mean, why does that factor in to your choice about how to live your life? Part of detachment will be when you no longer care what HE does or who he is with, if you live your life apart. If he were to marry Christi Brinkley, I can see why an ex wife would feel a tad insecure---unless she is happy on her own. But let's look at 2 other scenarios. One, he marries an OW who appears for all intents and purposes to be a "loser". She's over weight and not attractive, she smokes and has tattoos...yet he chooses her.

wouldn't that also make you feel bad? (So you see, either way, what HE chooses can make you feel lousy if you let it.)

OTOH, what happens if YOU find a man who treats you well? A man who sees your gifts as important or interesting (maybe an astronomy guy) and is attracted to you...and faithful to you? What about that possibility?

Can you see that you give up any chance for finding that, by staying with a man who is cheating on you and probably will for as long as he is physically capable (assuming it's happening)? And what about that? The blue pill issue...

Are you hoping that when he's no longer able to cheat, (I have no idea if an 80 y/o can use them or if there are restrictions other than cardiac ones) THEN he'll be faithful b/c he has no choice? Like a waiting game...but then, how would you know if he was telling the truth and not simply giving it out elsewhere?

I don't say these things to hurt you. I say these things to explore the possible outcomes of your path if you accept his infidelities, which you seem willing to do.

I don't know if you can do that as well as you are pretending here. If you could, then the deceit would be less important. In fact you would not want to know, if it were something you could overlook.

Do you see my point? I worry that by staying married to him, IF he's still cheating, (or is in some 'gray area' like Bill Clinton--gray to HIM, that is)

it'll eat away at you and eventually, a piece of you will die inside. I hope I'm not merely projecting. I think I'm being honest.

For my situation, I know I could live well enough on what I'd have in the event of a divorce, to be fine. Sure, my h is an MD and some OW would "benefit" but on the whole, given our children and what I think I'd find out there, I don't see him as coming out the "winner" but then again, I would not care.

All that would matter is how I was living MY NEW life...b/c I'd definitely be able to detach from a man who repeatedly breaks vows and isn't repentant and won't be faithful...

If your h is still cheating or on the market for a new OW, that means by its nature, that he's not repentant. Nor is he sorry for hurting you "from this day forward."

How would you see him then?

OTOH if he is being faithful, then at some point, you'll have to stop worrying about it. Can't hold it over his head or throw it in his face when you fight.

However, the way you described his behavior, it sounds as if he never really "got it" as to how hurt you were.

Were there any tears on his end? Any genuine signs of true remorse? Not at getting caught, but b/c of hurting you?

The way he treated you in December is revealing to me...and deeply disturbing b/c it answers most of these^^ questions...

And please, please know this.
If he's happy, that does not equate to him "winning" or you "losing." By the same token, if you are unhappy, that proves nothing about HIM.

The index of happiness/misery for you two would be separate. You need to see this clearly. You seem to think if he finds someone (anyone) then you are the loser.

But if he's a cheater, he'll cheat on the next one too.

Case in point.--My uncle left my aunt for OW#1 decades ago. It crushed my aunt for a few years, but she GAL big time, and has an innately positive attitude about life. That's attractive.

She remarried a man who really "got her" and she was happy w/him. He helped her raise her kids as her ex h, the uncle, lived overseas and was not very involved.

Though her 2nd h died early/suddenly, she grieved but again remarried. She's again in a healthy m, and btw, both her 2nd and 3rd h's were younger than she is -by a decade. She's out going, happy and very active physically.

My main point however was this---8 years after her ex h had married his OW, the OW called my aunt to see if uncle (the OWs' h) was over at my aunt's house...So you see, yes, he was still cheating, even on his "new" w. (& God only knows what it took for OW/(aka the new w) to call MY AUNT, the woman uncle had left for her!!...)

At that moment, my aunt said "a weight was lifted off my shoulders. No more sick to the stomach feelings and worrying about where he was or why he was late again...I finally saw that he'd done me a favor by leaving". And she was right.




For all these years, besides being a devoted wife and partner/co-worker in our business, I have also been his “cover story”, enabling him to be respected in our extended family and our community. So if I have any leverage, this is it. (Of course I would not use this as a threat, because I want him to stay with me and be faithful to me because he wants to – not because I can threaten him. But it is an important thing to know - that divorce is not advantageous for him either.)

So you think either he's going to "fall in love" again and not cheat b/c...why? I mean, my GUESS (and it's only that) is that he likes the "falling" part. He craves the attention and intensity of the newness, which he can't get with you b/c he knows you are always going to be there for him. No challenge. No "hunt".

OR

You think shame will be effective as a way to keep him, yet you also don't want to admit that to him or be seen as threatening exposure?

I don't know about that being effective. A Russian author once wrote, "when a man feels guilt, long enough, he attacks". I think there's some truth to that. If they don't get forgiven and allowed to drop the issue, (and that takes humility & effort on their end, to process BEFORE you can just "drop it")

then they tend to resent the party they blame for their guilt. IT's not the OW they blame. (I think this also applies to women, btw). Maybe One can only handle guilt for a certain amount of time.

You either work through it and earn the trust of your loved ones, or you give up and become bitter and blame them. (To be fair, there are some LBSers who make it too hard for the WAS to come home & regain trust. The LBS SAYS "come home" but It's as if they want to punish the wayward spouse more. For those couples, esp with kids, I think it would make more sense to just split up. To me, The worst possible choice to make, is to stay married AND stay miserable)...

I do not think you should make it harder for him to regain your trust, (b/c you need to keep the road home, paved and smooth)

but at this point, he's doing virtually nothing to earn it. He appears to EXPECT you to believe him...as if he's never lied before. That's not realistic or fair or loving, imo.

Financially – I am totally dependent on him. My “career” has been to raise our family and to promote his career, rather than building up an independent career for myself; and at this point in my life, I would not be able to support myself on my own.

That's not true if you are in the USA. You clearly need to see a divorce attorney. Every state has either "equitable division" Or is community property. Both ways you'd get about half of what you two have acquired during the marriage. For life... Yes I'm a L ---but rather than pretend to give you legal advice here, let me repeat my earlier request. SEE A LAWYER to know your rights.


Our kids are grown and self-supporting, but I am now responsible for my mother, who needs full-time care. (She has a live-in caregiver, who is much stronger than I am, and is able to do all the things my mother needs. But it’s expensive.) Fortunately my husband has taken full responsibility for my mother’s upkeep; but it is another way that I am dependent on him.

I should probably speak to an attorney as you suggest, just to know what my rights are. How would I go about finding a good one confidentially? I don’t have anyone I could ask, and I hesitate to pick one at random from the yellow pages.

Thanks for your help.

Yes you need to see a lawyer. You have a lot of fears about asking someone if they know a good attorney. My first suggestion would be to ask a divorced friend (male or female) if they had a good/bad or fair experience with their divorce attorney.

If you won't do that, which I highly recommend, then you need to find someone who does "Family law" primarily or exclusively. Not as part of an overall 20 types of law, but their main source of business. You want a specialist.

Frankly, your property division does not sound complex b/c there's no child support and the marriage is so long there's no argument that he would not have to pay support and divide assets equitably.

The only wrinkle is your mom's care, which 1) is negotiable. Let's face it, if your h is half as concerned about his image as you say, then you have some unspoken weapons in your arsenal that might pressure your h to continue his promise to support her and

2) no offense, but your mom's condition is not permanent. He won't be forever obligated. My mom is 91 and I love her very much. But I know her time is limited.

See a lawyer asap.

Stop feeling trapped and please read about detachment so that you won't care who he ends up with if it's not you.

If he really truly were happier with some OW, then fine, let him go be "happy" with her. At least it'd be out in the open, and the cards would fall where they fall.

I think he'd look like a cliche, and he'd cheat on her OR she'd demand so much "transparency" that he'd find it confining.

You have to respect/love yourself enough to realize what HE'D lose, not what you would lose. (And don't forget what you'd gain).

IF you two divorced, what would YOU really lose? You'd divorce him only if he's cheating so that means

you'd lose A man who cheats and lies and pretends to be someone he's not, and who is usuallyself centered and even unkind to you, for no reason other than his guilt.

For a moment, assume that you'd be fine financially, even if divorced. Assume that you'd only have your expenses, that you'd do perfectly well in a slightly smaller home OR that you'd get the home...just for a minute, assume you'd have enough to live well.

NOW how do you see your marital situation?

And what if he is still cheating? Then what?

1) You want to KNOW he's being faithful, and

2) if not, then you would want out. IF this is true, then what keeps you with him is the chance that he's being faithful, and financial fears.

So address those two^^ concerns. That is where your focus ought to be, AND on creating a new happier life without him, which you can do b/c he's been gone a lot over the years.

You know how to be happy without him. Keep doing that.