Finally getting it after three months...

[25yearsmlc]

NEED ADVICE PLEASE!!!
W may move home because she misses kids so much and doesnt feel needed. Told me if she does it is not because of me nor does she want to work on US. What do I do, say, act??

Why are you freaking out?

Just do what you have been doing, except w/her around more. She misses the kids. So now she'll see what she'd miss more of if she leaves. The more she sees you LOVINGLY interacting with the girls, the better.

Be a great dad, as you have been learning to do. Do NOT ask your w what she thinks OR if she notices anything new or different. Just BE different.

The more she sees your changes, the better. No obvious tactics, but do the 180s, and become a h only a fool would leave.

[jp787]

I was also deheartned by the low percentage of Separations that end up reconciling. But as I was told by my counselor, its because so many people a)aren't willing to make the changes to saving it with their wife and b)if they do, that can't make them consistent. She said of the husbands that she has worked with, those who truly change have great success reconciling with their wives. Howeverm if another man is involved, then all bets are off

This was hopeful until the last sentence...

[jp787]

I just got the 5 Languages Of Love and The Happiness Trap. Starting with the happiness trap today, looks like a good book. After the first chapter I fear that the only way I will get through this is to accept the fact that I may loss my marriage to my wife, yet I can be ok. The problem is I am still at I refuse to accept that I can loose my marriage and wife, it would be easier to cut off my left arm above the elbow with a rusty hack saw. So I guess I have some serious work to do. Act as if... Wow I applaud all of you who can do this, I just can't yet and idk how to get there. I am seriously obsessed with my wife and cant budge from it emotionally. I get it intellectually, but emotionally I am a mess. I dont know who to be OK with out her, I base everything on her being by my side and have for over 20 years. What a mess I am in.

[cbtdad]

"This was hopeful until the last sentence..."

Sorry:) wasn't trying to give you bad news.
Counselor just said when a third person is involved it complicates so many emotions on both spouses and its really tough while it is still going on.
If the spouse having an A drops it, then obviously the odds get better for reconciliation

[25yearsmlc]

I just got the 5 Languages Of Love and The Happiness Trap. Starting with the happiness trap today, looks like a good book.

First things first. READ the books. Process the information in them. Take it in.

Don't keep second guessing and paralyzing yourself; it's the worst thing you can do in this situation. It's not attractive for one thing, and it's totally counter productive as well. It's destructive to obsess & look for ways to give up hope.

IS that b/c it's easier to cave in and give up, and too hard to change yourself?

Dig deep. Find out if you have what it takes to make serious core changes in YOU. If not, then own that & don't blame meaningless statistics.

Begin making them. Forget OM. I mean it, forget him. He's not the father of your d's, and he's NOT in your w's life.


After the first chapter I fear that the only way I will get through this is to accept the fact that I may loss my marriage to my wife, yet I can be ok.

Enough of the FEAR. Yes you may lose your wife. You will survive that, & more.

You may also discover that becoming the man your wife always wanted you to be, the best you, and a loving father who is involved with his d's, is the way back to her heart.

It surely will not hurt anything.

Imagine the worst for a minute--that she leaves with some OM...what's likely to happen IF YOU become the man you need to be?

Imo, there's NO way a woman who once loved her h deeply, and then is hurt by his misbehavior & over quite some time...but finally sees real change in him,

won't look back and wonder..."What if I gave him another chance?"

And when that happens, you will be THE MAN she needs/wants and those doubts will grow in her, about the choice to leave.

Every time OM makes a mistake, she'll wonder about her choice. Every time the OM's children express sadness or anger at HER, she'll second guess her choice.

Every time she sees HER children, feeling pulled, she will feel torn and second guess her choice. Don't give her a reason to NOT second guess them.

Give her a lot to second guess, b/c you are a changed man. You are the man she wants/needs...

now, your job is to make that^^ true.

The problem is I am still at I refuse to accept that I can loose my marriage and wife, it would be easier to cut off my left arm above the elbow with a rusty hack saw. So I guess I have some serious work to do.

you "guess"? No, you KNOW you have some serious work to do.

WHEN are you going to start? How are the GAL activities?


Act as if... Wow I applaud all of you who can do this, I just can't yet and idk how to get there. I am seriously obsessed with my wife and cant budge from it emotionally.

okay, then give up...OR LEARN HOW TO "BUDGE" FROM IT...if you don't change, then nothing will change. You need new tools. (Check out the workshop "Essential Experience" Or "Lifespring", which is a distant second, but way better than once a week sessions of therapy. (THey have websites--check out EE b/c 4 other DBers have gone, and all got a lot of clarity from it).

Even if you have a good IC (and I hope you do) or therapist, I found it fragmented b/c I'd have a breakthrough and then need to go back to work or to my kids. For me it's more efficient to do workshops. My h felt the same and mind you, I had a good t. I really liked her. But like I said, it was "fragmented."

Workshops help you learn new behaviors and stop the old ones. If they are "experiential" you won't be able to rehearse or edit your responses.

You have to "get this" asap. You need new positive ways of acting/reacting b/c you'll revert to what you know in times of crisis, even if it's what you know NOT to do.

Make sense?

Period. It starts with you. You take the first step, and the second, and the next 100...

until your consistent changes + sufficient time = change she can believe in.

Later I'll post a letter to a h from a WAW. Her h cannot believe that his w won't return to him, since he has made changes...

you may find some things in it to learn from.

I get it intellectually, but emotionally I am a mess. I dont know who to be OK with out her, I base everything on her being by my side and have for over 20 years. What a mess I am in.

I don't believe this^^. You mistreated her quite a lot, per your description.

So, you didn't value her happiness then. Are you saying you don't know how to be happy on your own, period?

So if she died, you'd die? You'd curl up in a fetal position and give up? What would you model for your d's?

After some time, wouldn't you learn to live again? What would that look like?

Being apart from your w, but being happy.. imagine it in detail and describe it, and really give it thought. Now, please...

Any New hobbies? Are you taking a class or learning a new language? What would you do if you HAD to be happy, for your daughter's sake? What about travelling, any new friends, a sport or new friends? What would GAL look like?

Would you show your d's that without a certain someone in THEIR lives, they must give up and die? KNOW that They are watching you.

What kind of legacy do you want to leave them?

A legacy of your bad treatment of their mother (as their only memory of marriage), you being deserted because of it, and then what? You sitting on the lawn and sighing as if nothing is in your control b/c "the odds/OTHER stories are all so hopeless"....what a poor example for your children and what a way to NOT Live...


Why not show them (& you) a legacy of personal growth/redemption?

Learn & show the value of bravely looking within, being humbled by our flaws, finding the courage it takes to change those flaws, along with the value of redemption and commitment and love...

What about that ^^ legacy? Let's get on it.
NOW, what of those ^^ things can you do, in your life now?

[25yearsmlc]

"This was hopeful until the last sentence..."

Sorry:) wasn't trying to give you bad news.
Counselor just said when a third person is involved it complicates so many emotions on both spouses and its really tough while it is still going on.
If the spouse having an A drops it, then obviously the odds get better for reconciliation

Don't fool yourself OR Believe your wife will fool herself,

when the reality of having TWO married's leaving their spouses - WHICH ALSO involves children on both ends, sinks in.

The myth of "blended families" is increasingly well known. The Brady Bunch worked for 2 reasons.

1) both former spouses were dead and 2) it was a TV show.

It's enough to get most spouses to change their mind. (Since you seem to focus on "statistics", here's one. Most affairs do NOT result in divorce and remarriage to the person w/whom they had an affair. Those that do, have an 80% chance of divorce...)

Alsa, there is so much mind reading and negative projections on your thread,

so much CHOSEN hopelessness,

I find it hard to engage in all this speculation & predicting. BUT---here we go.

Here is the WAW letter I mentioned to you. See if any of it applies to your sitch.


FROM A WAW TO A LBS HUSBAND -A H WHO HAS CHANGED AND WONDERS WHY HIS WAW HAS NOT COME HOME YET, & HOW SHE CAN BE AT ALL INTERESTED IN OM….

"When I read your interactions with your wife, I could so easily identify with your wife's feelings/words/sentiments. I have been in her position in my M. I was the ignored, the devalued, the one who was treated as less than.

One of the things that I have tried my hardest not to do, is not to engage with another man. Not just because of my marriage vows, but because I knew that when I truly engaged in any type of R with another man, it would make it that much harder to ever reconcile with my H.

Because being treated differently (better) than the way he treated me would lessen him so much in my eyes. So, I can see where your W is coming from.

When you've been mistreated to the point where you actually let go of your R enough to let another person into your heart or bed or whatever, it takes a boatload of work to get back on a page where you're recommitted to being with your S - and those uncertainties that she's expressed to you, I don't know if you truly, truly fathom how deep they run.

Six months of getting back on a page where you treat her the way that any wife should be treated does not even scratch the surface of the years, the intrinsic devaluing that occurs when you're systematically mistreated for such a stretch of time.

And I promise you that while you have recommitted and worked for 6 months, your W has simply been trying to get to a point where she can even buy into the changes, where she can even think that you might have changed and not scoff at the thought.

Because when you build up hope again and again and again in your H and he crushes it again and again and again, you develop a thick skin, a protective doubt, a conditioned response to even the slightest, grainiest seed of hope.

You are taught that when you hope, you will be disappointed. When you try, you will fail. You are taught that you will never be what he wants and it is hard to shake what you have come to believe is reality.

And for the changes that you've made to have come only when she walked away and OM became competition, I can definitely see how she can doubly doubt that you truly want to be in a M with her, and not just to win.

Even you today say that you are not sure that you don't just want to win.

Step 1 - figure that sh!t out ASAP. Because if you actually do manage to convince her that you really do want her and really have recommitted to her and you actually just want to win, you'll put her through hell.

[jp787]

"This was hopeful until the last sentence..."

Sorry:) wasn't trying to give you bad news.
Counselor just said when a third person is involved it complicates so many emotions on both spouses and its really tough while it is still going on.
If the spouse having an A drops it, then obviously the odds get better for reconciliation

Don't be sorry, It was my fear and self pitty that typed that reply, I am the one who is sorry for doing that.

[VeryGrateful]

I just got the 5 Languages Of Love and The Happiness Trap. Starting with the happiness trap today, looks like a good book. After the first chapter I fear that the only way I will get through this is to accept the fact that I may loss my marriage to my wife, yet I can be ok. The problem is I am still at I refuse to accept that I can loose my marriage and wife, it would be easier to cut off my left arm above the elbow with a rusty hack saw. So I guess I have some serious work to do. Act as if... Wow I applaud all of you who can do this, I just can't yet and idk how to get there. I am seriously obsessed with my wife and cant budge from it emotionally. I get it intellectually, but emotionally I am a mess. I dont know who to be OK with out her, I base everything on her being by my side and have for over 20 years. What a mess I am in.

Yes, you are in a mess. A lot of us have been in this state and I know for myself that I sometimes cycle back into that but don't let it control me and it doesn't last long.

I haven't read completely thru you thread but it sounds like you are emotionally dependent on your wife for your well being. Do you have friends you can confide in about what is going on. An outlet. A pastor. This website is good but it is really helpful to have some people you can discuss this with face to face. And not friends who will report back to your wife or take sides between you or your wife. Friends that will be supportive and compassionate and understanding.

Reading these books (Happiness Trap and 5LL) is good. I have read 5LL among other books. I wouldn't make conclusions from these books or think there will be an answer to your sitch on page 178. Just use the information in these books to grow as a person - for yourself. I do believe what I've learned in various books and this website have made me grow and change and my W has noticed it.

And I think it is also good from time to time to take a break from the books and this website and just get out and do stuff for yourself (and kids). Relax, breath, exercise.

Let go of catastrophic thinking. The only thing you can control is yourself and you will feel better if you don't obssess. You have got to quickly get yourself to a point where you know you will have a happy and fulfilling life with or without wife.

[VeryGrateful]

In regards to building a support network, these friends are useful for GAL. Beyond talking about your sitch with them, do stuff with them. Ski, get together for a beer, meet for lunch. When you are with them face to face hanging out it not only makes you feel good but gives you the opportunity to improve your relationship skills. I'll make a general statement here, I think women are great at this. Married men not so much, amongst people I know.

I'm learning about how my poor communication skills has led to emotional disconnect in my marriage. I'm more aware of this now and pay attention to it. Because I am S and giving wife space using my support network helps me improve my skills because I can't always do that with W at this time.

[jp787]

WHEN are you going to start? How are the GAL activities?

I have, yet I need to do more. I spend most of my time at home with the girls with the exception of going to the gym. I hate not being at home when the girls are home, yet I need to take small outings for myself.

Act as if... Wow I applaud all of you who can do this, I just can't yet and idk how to get there. I am seriously obsessed with my wife and cant budge from it emotionally.
[quote=25yearsmlc]

okay, then give up...OR LEARN HOW TO "BUDGE" FROM IT...if you don't change, then nothing will change. You need new tools. (Check out the workshop "Essential Experience" Or "Lifespring", which is a distant second, but way better than once a week sessions of therapy. (THey have websites--check out EE b/c 4 other DBers have gone, and all got a lot of clarity from it).

I am trying to budge…
Cannot afford to go to either I live too far away.

Even if you have a good IC (and I hope you do) or therapist, I found it fragmented b/c I'd have a breakthrough and then need to go back to work or to my kids. For me it's more efficient to do workshops. My h felt the same and mind you, I had a good t. I really liked her. But like I said, it was "fragmented."

Just ended with another T and looking for one who uses A.C.T. Hard to find one I like.

Workshops help you learn new behaviors and stop the old ones. If they are "experiential" you won't be able to rehearse or edit your responses.


You have to "get this" asap. You need new positive ways of acting/reacting b/c you'll revert to what you know in times of crisis, even if it's what you know NOT to do.

Make sense?

Yes and I have a lifetime of bad patterns to rewire.

Period. It starts with you. You take the first step, and the second, and the next 100...

until your consistent changes + sufficient time = change she can believe in.

Understood.

I get it intellectually, but emotionally I am a mess. I dont know how to be OK with out her, I base everything on her being by my side and have for over 20 years. What a mess I am in.

I don't believe this^^. You mistreated her quite a lot, per your description.

Yes I did. I used her to make myself feel safe and abused her from my issues, I failed her.

So, you didn't value her happiness then. Are you saying you don't know how to be happy on your own, period?

Yes, I think so.

So if she died, you'd die? You'd curl up in a fetal position and give up? What would you model for your d's?

To be honest it would be easier to deal with a death, not that that is what I want at all. That sounds horrible…

After some time, wouldn't you learn to live again? What would that look like?

I would hope so, but I cant see that now, I guess I need to start looking.

Being apart from your w, but being happy.. imagine it in detail and describe it, and really give it thought. Now, please...

I will work on this one.

Any New hobbies? Are you taking a class or learning a new language? What would you do if you HAD to be happy, for your daughter's sake? What about travelling, any new friends, a sport or new friends? What would GAL look like?

This is something I need to do, especially make new friends. That is a challenge for me as I don’t feel I know how. I haven’t been social since HS and it was hard then.

Would you show your d's that without a certain someone in THEIR lives, they must give up and die? KNOW that They are watching you.

What kind of legacy do you want to leave them?

A legacy of your bad treatment of their mother (as their only memory of marriage), you being deserted because of it, and then what? You sitting on the lawn and sighing as if nothing is in your control b/c "the odds/OTHER stories are all so hopeless"....what a poor example for your children and what a way to NOT Live...


Why not show them (& you) a legacy of personal growth/redemption?

Learn & show the value of bravely looking within, being humbled by our flaws, finding the courage it takes to change those flaws, along with the value of redemption and commitment and love...

What about that ^^ legacy? Let's get on it.
NOW, what of those ^^ things can you do, in your life now?

Thank you for the pushing, I need it.
Thank you for taking so much time responding to me, I really do appreciate it!