EXPERIMENTING with physical touch with W

[25yearsmlc]

Leo, I understand completely now how you veterans come down hard on us noobs because that lights a fire under our butts =). I know you want to help me and I appreciate that more than I let up. But, I am a very patient person. Extremely patient. I can ride this out a long time.....maybe too long if you know what mean.

I just have a lot of confusion as to how to act towards wife. It's mainly because of the mixed opinions I get.

You do get a lot of mixed opinions. We're human. Even when we agree to use DB methods, we don't always agree when to use which tool or how to do it or when to monitor...

But Please don't explore something as contradicting to DB as exposure or the alternate marriage "saving" approaches, such as MB/MA's -(or your spin on them)- which I admit have their advocates. But they are almost the opposite of what is here. I don't want to re-hash that.

Whenever I see exposure to 3rd parties attempted in real life, it backfires more than anything else AND, for me, it risks looking like the revenge and punitive behavior that it usually is.

But there are some universals in much of what we post. SUCH AS:

We ALL say to GAL. Not at the expense of your d, but surely you need friends. I daresay no one will disagree with that.

So DO SOME GAL and don't make it extreme in quantity or expectation (As with the GAL...going from having NO friends to wanting to be a Big Brother, and take a class and volunteer for Habitat..all at once). Hey, I went nuts GALing but I didn't neglect my kids and I paced myself. Maybe one of your mottos ought to be "pace thyself".

And please, unlike the cooking class (a very good idea in itself), do NOT tell your wife about it to get a reaction. That's exactly why you told her.

Where is the mystery in that? How obvious can you be about your tactics, when you highlight them to look for her reaction?

GAL is for YOU to be happier and busier and NOT obsess and it's NOT to get a reaction from your WAS...by now that must be accepted by you & understood.

Some support being very tough while some have said this period before separation should be almost the best time of her life.

what? Who said that^^ and where and why? I don't buy that...You're misquoting or misunderstanding or both. I don't even know what it means..."best time of her life" ought to be when she leaves you? Um, that can't be what anyone HERE said...WTH?

I think the debates are among those who advocate keeping the road home paved/smooth, (which means different things to us at different times)

those who favor tossing her stuff on the lawn, and or filing for Div,

those who want to see you do YOUR work first, and detach from what she does/says,

perhaps treating her as if she's a roomate who helps with your D's daycare,
&
those who want you to stop the controlling/analyzing/mind reading/manipulating and lecturing...

and those who think you ought to do a mixture of some of the above.

I'm in the last group-- First you must find a way of proving that marriage to you from this day forward would NOT be sex starved. And to HER it was sex starved - so you have to stop saying the reason she left was FINANCIAL...that's insane. OM has no money and does not make her "feel great" b/c he's poor.

You still hide from HER real complaints b/c you either don't agree with them (as if that's relevant) or b/c you are embarrassed by them. I get the latter piece but this is the place for honesty. Besides, what SHE SAID had nothing to do with money TO HER. It was all about having no passion, no quality time, no intimacy and she was plain as day saying it. She even said she'd have to fall in love with you again, (or something like that). Not a word about you earning more...or working more!

It's confusing to have you talk about financial matters as if they were a reason to HER, for leaving. Finances may well affect YOUR security or feelings as a man but that is something for YOU to work on and it's not HER problem...it's yours...

whatever affected your sex drive made it less than it was before. So there was a change in YOUR behavior towards her.

Plus, I have asked you about her weight being an issue, and whether you mentioned it. (She stated she wanted to work out and lose weight. Why?)

You ignored the question but clearly she worried that she was not attractive enough to you and you did NOT reassure her (enough) that your decreased sex drive was Not related to her weight gain or to her not being attractive enough to you. She even told you that OM told her she is "hot".
This is something for YOU to handle if you reconcile. Until then you must be more forthcoming with compliments. Did you say you would now "compliment her WEEKLY"? SM, that's NOT a lot. IT's woefully inadequate and NO you do not have to compliment her when she returns from OM's. You could compliment how she is with D on a specific basis so it's not a generalized comment you keep repeating.

"I love how you get down on the floor with d to play. Getting at her eye level is exactly what she loves." OR "you sure know how to cook X just the way I like it, so thanks!"

Second, while you need to show that m to you would be better/different, it'd have to be done in a way that also sets limits on HER behavior. That is not about you controlling her; which is impossible; it's about how YOU react to her choices.

To protect your self respect. YES I concede it's very challenging.

I also know that there is a fine line we ALL have had to find between self respect and false pride...

Sometimes it's a blurry line OR a shifting line. "Am I setting a boundary or punishing or trying to 'teach a lesson'?" "Is this my wounded ego talking, or a healthy limit?"

HOW do you do it?

You get a DB coach (who knows the whole story unvarnished and without your spin, just the facts) and maybe a good IC for you, and you dig deep and figure out where your motivation is coming from AND what the likely result of a given choice will be.

Third, you must stop being needy to her. She knows you are waiting & waiting for her and that you are NOT going anywhere.

The questions is,

What's there to motivate her to give OM up, when she does not have to? Think about that.

What's SHE got to lose by sleeping with him?

Why do you keep telling her your back hurts? Why tell her you feel sick when she's returning from a "date w/OM"? I don't know why she tells you this information. Can you explain to me why she does that? IOW

WHAT DOES SHE SAY, TO EXPLAIN HER PRESENT DAY CHOICES?

IOW, does she actually tell you (recently, not 2.5 months ago) that she "needs sex with OM" and then expects you... to do what?

You realize that when she said "it's not fair to ask you to wait", that while she did NOT ASK to do it, she just DID it?

I mean, she is in effect demanding that you just take this.

She's taking what she did not to ask for, (i.e., permission) as if it shows great restraint and fairness on her end. And you permit it, so permission has been, in effect, given. I can see how she'd believe this is tolerable b/c it is tolerated.

Without analyzing her to defend her, it's pretty mind boggling.

I accept that she is a good person doing a bad thing. I accept your version of her b/c you seem to have had a good enough m for awhile to justify it.

But YOUR behavior is my concern...I don't get it.

I think I'd rather have my h lie to me about an OW of his, rather than shove it in my face and tell me that he's "coming home to take care of me" when I'm sick...after he was just with OW. Geez, No wonder you're sick.

I'd use the term "gaslighting" which you ought to look up. It comes from the movie "Gaslight" and in it, a h tries to make his wife go nuts so he can get her money.

He hides things and denies it, he turns off/on lights and pretends all is well when it's not.

See anything similar? And the competing with OM bugs me too. It strikes me as ultimate cake eating, and I'm not one to point that out a lot.

I get why you are trying to show her some positives, (you needed to) but in this case, it seems to me she's in the extremes of DB situations, in her brazen PA.

I'd be interested in laurie's take on that, if you can be accurate.


Please give me some examples of hypothetical situations and what you would say in response. I have tried to look for hypothetical dialogues on here but all I can find is when a vet is advising a noob on a specific question. Any ideas?

"Hypothetical dialogues" here? You thought WE had a script for you to use?

oh wow, SM...I will read more of your thread but that^^ made me laugh a little. SM, I know you are in horrible pain. I can feel your twisting stomach and your constant frenzied swirling questions among the confusing emotions YOU must feel...

But even now, I feel your rush for the fast fix & it hits me as a little funny.

PACE THYSELF...