Looking for a little advice and support

[cbtdad]

I have been reading this forum for about a week now. I made a 180 mistake today and now I feel like posting and getting a little support along the way.
I guess I'll start with my story. Wife and I have been married for about 5 and half years. Been together for about 6.5 years. We have a 3 year old son.
First few years of marriage were great. We had our ups and downs, but nothing major. The wife comes from a very well to do family. At the end of 2009 her grandmother bought her a house. I changed careers and went into financial planning. I was doing very well for about 6 months until her grandmother was basically kidnapped by her uncle. 2 months after that grandma died and a very ugly estate battle began. So from 10/10 till today a lot stress has been added to the household. She is just now starting to talk to her sisters again. Money definitely does strange things to people. Anyways, when grandma died the wife received a good sum of money from a life insurance policy. On top of that I was helping a lot getting attorneys and things lined up for her mother. I got very involved and got distracted from my financial planning practice.
2011 and much of 2012 were terrible business wise for me an I found myself getting lazy and complacent. I definitely got comfortable. I make my own hours and work when I want. Well, when you have a roof over your head, no car notes and no debt it was easy to get comfortable if money wasn't coming in. Only problem is every couple months I would have to go to wife and ask her to transfer money to cover bills. I knew this was building up and getting worse, yet I didnt do anything about it. In the beginning of 2012 we became part owners of a bar with some mutual friends and our CPA. Around the same time the wife bought a horse and began to ride horses and spending a lot of time at the barn and going to horse jumping shows.
When I wasnt working I would find myself just laying around and being very passive. She was getting madder and madder. It got to the point that she would spend time in he bedroom and I would be in the living room without much communication. The wife has always been very stubborn and had a hard time communicating and opening up. So after a few years of marriage I stopped trying so much to communicate problems with her. Well, around May of last year I began going out 3 or 4 times a week. Sometimes not even coming home. Sometimes staying at a girls house in an extra bedroom and she knew it. I would tell her where I was staying.
I was just so miserable at home since all she did was sit on her laptop and watch tv. I just wanted to get out of the house. So the more I was out and drinking the more distant I became and worse it got. I would be hungover the next day and wouldn't have energy to work and not enough energy for my son. It was terrible.
Well around the beginning of November I stopped going out and decided to make some changes. I decided this because even though I was out all the time I was never taking that next step and cheating on my wife. I thought to myself, why I'm I continuing to drive a wedge further between my family and I if I'm not cheating or wanting out. So I quit and started seeing a counselor.
The beginning of December I began to tell something wasn't right. Had a bad feeling. Felt like maybe she was cheating or something. Especially when she decided to go to a horse show for 10 days and leave our 3 year old for that long. Well turns out the reason she was gone so long was to get away and get her feelings together. Her dad also met her there and she spoke to him. On 12/12/12 she hit me with, "this isn't working anymore, I want a divorce, neither one of us is happy, etc etc etc"
She had even already seen an attorney and filed. I was really mad at first about her seeing an attorney before even discussing it with me first. But then she said I would have talked my way out of it and manipulated her into staying. She's right! I would have.
I asked her to at least go to a counselor for one session and she agreed. On jan 3rd we went on saw a counselor. She was so angry an upset and hurt. She told counselor that i might change for a month or so, but not for good. she said i was such a good salesman and would say whatever to get her to stay. even the counselor said we needed some space apart before we could try and work on it together. She said the main 3 things were I wasn't supportive as a husband and father, I was a terrible father and that we have grown apart and aren't friends anymore.
I didnt disagree with anything.
On Jan 11th I moved out and got an apartment. We had dinner a couple days later to go over some things. We agreed to a "planned separation"
I would have our son every other weekend but also be able to see him when I want during the week if she was ok with that. All divorce proceedings off the table for 6 months and no dating or "other things" for 6 months.
We had a couple good conversations in the next couple weeks. Until she went out of town. She told me he was going to Birmingham and I ended up getting an email from delta since we have same skymiles account saying she was going to Atlanta. I asked her about it and she said she didn't tell me because she knew i would assume things. Well turns out I googled Atlanta horse shows and there was a show being put on by a guy who owns a horse show company that I've thought she might be interested in.
I told her I knew and she said yes, she was going to the show for a day or two to see friends and then going to Birmingham. Well My suspicions just kept eating at me and I had to know!
So I hacked her email and Facebook account. Then I hacked her iPhone location. I know it was absolutely stupid and immature, but I had to know.
Well late that night I read emails between her lawyer and her as well messages on Facebook between friends. I learned that she recorded our whole conversation on 12/12/12 when she broke the news to me and that he had asked her attorney when she could start dating since she has been emotionally detached for so long.
Through her Facebook messages I learned that she had asked people about this guy, but nothing more yet.
I also learned that she didnt think I could change so she was going to move on.
Well, the next day I looked at her location in her phone and sure enough she was at the guys house I was worried about. I texted her an told her I knew, etc, etc.
I called her and she answered the phone. She was extremely mad and said I'm done!! Well, we actually ended up talking for about 45 minutes an in that conversation she said, "if i wasn't giving you a chance why would I answer my phone or return your texts at all?"
That was a good point. I ended up picking her up at the airport the next day and we discussed everything. She said there was a 5 or 6 people staying at his house for he horse show and it wasn't like it was just the two of them and that nothing happened. We talked about things and I let it go.
Well on Superbowl Sunday we got in to it again. I told her I was upset because she said, "she would work on things", but so far hasn't done anything to show that. She said that she wasn't ready. At that point it became easier for me and I began to do a 180. Things were great for about 10 days until today she was over at my apartment and I began to ask her what she was doing about a job and what her plans where. I shouldn't have even asked, she got upset and left.
I have changed so many things about me the last couple months, but the one thing I have failed miserably at is giving her space. This is why I am joining the forum, to get advice:support from others and see if there is anything I can offer.
I know my wife is WAW and this was her last attempt at me changing. My goal at the moment is for the 2 of us to get to Retrovaille at the end of March. But each time I mess up, I know it's gonna be tougher. Any advice would be very much welcomed!
Sorry for the long post, but I figured I had to give the background

[AnotherStander]

Only problem is every couple months I would have to go to wife and ask her to transfer money to cover bills. I knew this was building up and getting worse, yet I didnt do anything about it. When I wasnt working I would find myself just laying around and being very passive. She was getting madder and madder.

Often it's things like this that build up over time and cause a lot of resentment. Your W may have tried to say something about it, and you probably perceived it as nagging and shut down on her. This is pretty typical of how most of us end up at BD, the W finally gives up and plans their escape, the news seems "sudden" to us but it's brewing with them for months or years.

The wife has always been very stubborn and had a hard time communicating and opening up.

I thought this about my W as well. What I've since learned through RetroV and self-help books is that I was as responsible for the poor communication as she was. RetroV in particular taught me that I was using the wrong tools to try to get her to open up and I was responding to her communication attempts in the wrong ways (because I didn't see that she was trying to communicate, because it didn't look like I expected it to). So you perceive her as being stubborn, but I suspect when you learn how you should have been communicating you'll realize that you were in fact discouraging her and you will kick yourself for it.

Well, around May of last year I began going out 3 or 4 times a week. Sometimes not even coming home. Sometimes staying at a girls house in an extra bedroom and she knew it. I would tell her where I was staying.

Well I guess you don't need to be told how damaging that was to your M.

I was just so miserable at home since all she did was sit on her laptop and watch tv.

Read the 5 Love Languages. It'll help you understand what both of you were doing wrong. You were both waiting for the other to fill your love tank and the resentment just grew and grew. What neither of you realized is that to get your love tank filled, first YOU have to fill your spouse's love tank. You can't sit around and wait for them to have an epiphany one day and suddenly start lavishing attention on you.

Well around the beginning of November I stopped going out and decided to make some changes.

Good. Now be consistent, that's the important thing. Your W needs to see consistent changes over a long period of time before she believes they're real and not just tricks to bring her back.

She told counselor that i might change for a month or so, but not for good. she said i was such a good salesman and would say whatever to get her to stay.

Exactly why you need to show consistent changes and give her months to appreciate that they're real.

Then I hacked her iPhone location. I know it was absolutely stupid and immature, but I had to know.

Do you feel better knowing now? I'm guessing not, and that's usually how snooping goes. You find out stuff you don't want to know, that leads to a nasty confrontation in which the spouse learns you've been snooping and that in turn creates a lot of anger and resentment.

I called her and she answered the phone. She was extremely mad and said I'm done!!

Yeah, that's usually where snooping ends up.

Well on Superbowl Sunday we got in to it again.

Have you read DR yet? Be very careful of "more of the same" behavior, it'll just keep setting you back.

My goal at the moment is for the 2 of us to get to Retrovaille at the end of March.

Personally I think that may be too soon.

[cbtdad]

Thanks AS!
I have read a lot of your posts on here and you have some great advice.
You are so right with everything you basically said.
The snooping just made me feel worse, it was pointless in the end. Didnt really learn anything different and felt extremely bad for doing it.
As I said, after Superbowl Sunday it became easier to do a 180 when she said she just wasn't ready. I was getting upset when she kept telling me and her family that she was going to work on it, but wasn't doing anything.
I noticed a difference in her body language and communication within one week of that. But like I said the other day, I started asking questions and it upset her. This time though only after a couple hours she sent me a joke about something and started communicating with me. I just kept it short, not to be rude.
I know she notices the changes, but she just isn't ready to trust again.
I've had a very good resource here where I live. Him and his wife are one of the couples that head up retroV here. He knows everything and has said the only chance to get her to retroV in march is to give her the space now and immediately and let her start second guessing if she really wants this.
One of the things he said that I try and remember now that made so much sense is: He asked me what my biggest fear was and I told him my biggest fear is pulling a 180 and becoming the best man I can be and her not changing at all and me not wanting to be with her anymore. His response, "that is the most selfish thing I have heard. For the last 2 years she has put up with the worst of you as now you become the best you can be and you don't give her a chance to change. That's selfish"
I was like wow. Didnt think of it that way.
I have been reading DB and have learned some great things. One of the books I read tht I really understood and got a lot out of was, "Winning your wife back before its too late" by Gary Smalley.
I am going to continue to work on me as that is the only thing I can control.
Everything else is in His hands. Thanks for the advice AS
I'm glad I joined this forum, I know it can be such a big help

[Breakdown]

I agree with most of AS's comments....especially reading DR and 5LL.

You've got to start working on you for you. You can't do it for your W...it won't stick, and she'll know it. It'll take a long time for her to start trusting your changes, so the sooner you start the better!

I remember those awful feelings, thinking my W was running around, and she was doing things a lot worse than what you've described. At the end, I never felt better about any of it. When I snooped, I took what I found and assumed the worst, so I felt even worse than before. When I confronted, she denied and then got pissed that I snooped. You see the cycle right? It goes round and round. Even if she was fooling around, she wouldn't tell you about it.

In the end, realize that you can't control your W. If she wants to run around, she will, and nothing you do or say will stop her. But chasing after it and thinking the worst will only push her further and further away.

So with that said, what do you want to work on? Who do you want to be?

[cbtdad]

"So with that said, what do you want to work on? Who do you want to be?"

I have really begun a couple months working on a lot of changes in me. I know I am capable of so much more. I've begun to treat my career as a 9-5 and doing it everyday. I've lost almost 20 lbs by exercising and eating better. I've curbed the drinking big time and have only gone out a couple times in the last couple of months. I have formed a much better relationship with Christ and the church.
I now see how selfish I was being. Constantly putting my needs before hers and my sons. I've learned that love is an action not an emotion. Loving somebody is all about putting their needs first because you can't live without them in your life.
It's not just about a feeling.
I've really tried to learn through Christ the way I should treat my wife and our son. I had such a bad example as a father and picked up so many bad things. I'm learning to love as my Father would want me to and not how my biological father taught me.
The W definitely still communicates with me and even her friends have told me she wants it to work, but I just have a lot of changing to do.
I'm nowhere close to where I want to be yet and wouldn't ask her to competely reconcile until I am.
Thanks for the support!

[KarenR]

Hi, Glad you found us and I am sorry for what you are going through. It is very hard to break out of the pattern you and your wife have established. I highly recommend that you speak with one of Michele's DB coaches to get very specific advice and direction as to the best way to interact with her, so that you can start to change this cycle and to get your marriage on track. This is what the coaches are experts at. I would be happy to discuss this with your further. Take good care.

[cbtdad]

Been a wierd couple of days. W is out of town at a horse show and hasn't called our son once since Thursday night. I haven't texted her one time to ask why or anything else. Honestly, I feel better not talking to her at all

[cbtdad]

S

[AnotherStander]

Thanks AS!
I have read a lot of your posts on here and you have some great advice.

Thank you, glad to help

I know she notices the changes, but she just isn't ready to trust again.

Quite right, it probably took her months or years to build a wall around her emotions and it's not going to come down quickly or easily. It'll come down like it went up- one brick at a time.

Him and his wife are one of the couples that head up retroV here. He knows everything and has said the only chance to get her to retroV in march is to give her the space now and immediately and let her start second guessing if she really wants this.

He is right about that although I'm doubtful a month is enough time for her to second guess things. In my case it was over 6 months from BD before W was ready for RV, and in retrospect I still think that was too soon.

I told him my biggest fear is pulling a 180 and becoming the best man I can be and her not changing at all and me not wanting to be with her anymore. His response, "that is the most selfish thing I have heard. For the last 2 years she has put up with the worst of you as now you become the best you can be and you don't give her a chance to change. That's selfish"

I'm not sure that was a fair statement on his part, because you did say it was a "fear" of yours. IE, it's something you're scared of and that you don't want to happen. A selfish statement might be something like "I want to be the best man I can be so that I don't want her anymore".

Been a wierd couple of days. W is out of town at a horse show and hasn't called our son once since Thursday night. I haven't texted her one time to ask why or anything else. Honestly, I feel better not talking to her at all

My W got more sporadic with contact after BD and it's been that way ever since. I think after BD the WAS feels like they don't need to try anymore, so they quit reaching out through phone and text.

[Breakdown]

I know she notices the changes, but she just isn't ready to trust again.

It takes a long long time. I just passed the 2 year mark since BD and I'm just starting to get the sense that W believes my changes are real. She doesn't talk about it much, but for the first year, it was a regular point she made (i.e. I don't believe this is the real you).

I told him my biggest fear is pulling a 180 and becoming the best man I can be and her not changing at all and me not wanting to be with her anymore.

Personally, I think that is a totally reasonable fear. I have it myself. As with most of us, our Ms didn't break because of one person....both partners had a hand in it. For them to work, I think both partners must have a hand in that as well. Sure, one of us wants it to work generally and one doesn't, but that doesn't mean we'd fix ourselves and then stay married to someone who refuses to work with us.

I think it's a regular question here...how long do I wait it out? How long do I delay D in hopes that spouse will make adjustments or change their mind? My W and I have actually had that discussion to a point. She feels like she waited for me to get it together for 10 years (and to a point, she's right)...how long will I wait for her to figure it out now that the shoe's on the other foot? Well, 2 years and counting...but there's always times I feel tired and want to give up. So yeah, I too have that same fear.