Gonna be different now, (butterfly in hurricane).

[Big Bruce]

Just as an exercice for myself :

Qualities of W :
- Very attentive to S well-being.
- Very thrifty
- Helpful at housework
- Likes to read and knit
- Likes to work
- Has beautiful blonde, straight hair, like I've never seen in my life.
- Has a very clever sense of humour, almost "unexpected".

Improvements of me :
- Stop doing so much sport and physical activity
- Try to eat more and gain some weight (10 pounds would be ideal)
- Learn about S. Like everything : his food, his sleep, his clothes..
- Go less to the gym
- Stop dreaming and planning about travelling places. I gotta stay here for the moment.
- Although I still ove her like a mental, stop trying to get W back. That's wicked, but I have to detach.

[Soul.Searching]

Take your wife out of the occasion for a minute.
What do you think of YOU?
What do you think about the way you have treated your W?
What do you think of the way you treated your S?
Have you forgiven yourself for your part?
Who is responsible for the demise of your M?
Have you been honest with yourself about how bad your actions have been? Or are you trying to minimize them, so as to not feel as much guilt?

[theUF]

Just as an exercice for myself :

Qualities of W :
- Very attentive to S well-being.
- Very thrifty
- Helpful at housework
- Likes to read and knit
- Likes to work
- Has beautiful blonde, straight hair, like I've never seen in my life.
- Has a very clever sense of humour, almost "unexpected". Unexpected? How do you mean? Sounds like a strange choice of word

Improvements of me :
- Stop doing so much sport and physical activity I would finish the sentence at sport. Physical activity is helpful and healthy, just prioritize.
- Try to eat more and gain some weight (10 pounds would be ideal)
- Learn about S. Like everything : his food, his sleep, his clothes..
- Go less to the gym
- Stop dreaming and planning about travelling places. I gotta stay here for the moment.
- Although I still ove her like a mental, stop trying to get W back. That's wicked, but I have to detach.

[Big Bruce]

Take your wife out of the occasion for a minute.
What do you think of YOU?
I thought I was slightly "above average" in all areas, and I was proud of it. Now I see that not only I am more than average, I am even a cliche of why wives abandon men..

What do you think about the way you have treated your W?
As I said, I am very normal and average, in the sense that all that a new couple shouldn't do, we did. All the errors that a newly wed husband should avoid, I did.

What do you think of the way you treated your S?
I was hoping that I could play ball with him, and for some reason that I would connect with him. I guess I was disappointed when when S was just a baby who didn't understand a thing, and couldn't even sit, nevermind stand or run. So I was "waiting", before getting involved. Too bad for me, my W didn't appreciate my seemingly lack of interest...


Have you forgiven yourself for your part?
I think I have, in the sense that I know what I did wrong, and that I wouldn't do that again. It's called experience, maturity or learning with life I guess. It wasn't done out of malice, this I know, therefore I have forgiven myself.

Who is responsible for the demise of your M?
The question is misleading, because, did I have the emotional ability to see what was going on in my W's head? Did I have the resources to understand what she was going through? Conversely, did she have the intellectual capacity, or let's say, the knowledge, the perspective and information enough to analyze why the husband was reacting the way he was? What was behind the matter with the husband?


Have you been honest with yourself about how bad your actions have been? Or are you trying to minimize them, so as to not feel as much guilt?
I recognize my actions were horrible, but if I recognize responsibility, I do not accept guilt.
To make an example everybody will understand, were the endoctrinated nazi youth guilty for what they thought or did?
No, they acted accordingly to what was taught to them, as anyone of us would have done. Same here, as a newlywed young professional born in my culture, I reacted exactly like how I was supposed to. Some of my friends still don't understand the heck s going on with W.. and I don't blame them, I was the same. So, responsible yes, guilty no.

[Big Bruce]

Just as an exercice for myself :

Qualities of W :

- Has a very clever sense of humour, almost "unexpected". Unexpected? How do you mean? Sounds like a strange choice of word

Her point of view is always "offset". Everybody is thinking this one thing, and she comes up with this funny remark, like I would never have thought of that...
She always catches me by surprise and I used to wonder, how is it organized up there for her to come up with such wayward ideas...?

[Big Bruce]

Back,
I think the other party is proposing to meet early this week. The two L and W and me.
They want this 4-way meeting to try and reach a settlement and adjourn or cancel the hearing due Friday!

My L thinks they're doing this, because their case to keep S is weak. Also they need more time to add the money stuff, alimony and property settlement.

why would I want to meet with W? She already said clearly she doesn't me to have S for 50% of the time, why would I need to discuss further the issue, since anything less than 50% isn't an option for me?

As for money, she is intent on screwing me up all she can. Now or later, she'll obtain money in all scenarios.

Anyone been in that case before?

[MrBond]

"she is intent on screwing me up all she can."

Still the same. Actually she's not "screwing" you. She's getting what she deserves or feels she deserves.

[MrBond]

BTW, comparing an LBS who didn't understand the dynamics of a marriage IS NOT the same as the brainwashed Nazi kids. I can't believe you actually used that as a comparison.

In fact, many of your actions that led to this actually surprised many of us. We didn't understand how you didn't even think many of your actions would lead to bad consequences. So just by saying it's things that you didn't know is a cop out.

[lostinscared]

Thank you for the kind words, Gabby. They mean more than you will ever know... especially right now...

Bruce,

Sigh. Just sigh. I'm not sure any amount of 2x4's to the side of your head is going to change this. It's almost disturbing. Do you think your W is guilty? Are you saying that you are responsible but she is guilty? How much more emotional abandonment was she supposed to take from you before she did not become guilty? My stepfather beat the he!! out of my mother for 13 years before she got out. His father beat him relentlessly. That's how he was raised. Was she guilty for leaving? I mean he was "indoctrinated" like you say into believing that beating people is right. And, please, before you tell me that is different, it isn't. As I stated earlier, emotional damage can be even more dangerous than physical damage.

Your friends are doing you NO GOOD by making statements about not understanding your W. My H cheated, lied and is an alcoholic. Let me tell you what happened when he left: my closest friends, including my mother, had a list of things that I needed to work on to make either this relationship or the next successful. There wasn't anyone sitting around indulging me and ignoring my faults - THANK GOD. Were people supportive of me? Absolutely. But there is a big difference between being supportive and being blind and indulgent.

You come here and probably go to your friends trying to drum up support for your side of things. A lot of us do that. I did that. Problem is, we don't think that through to the end. If the whole darn world agreed with us, that DOESN'T get us any closer to reconciliation with our spouses. It probably moves us further away. If what you want is support for your side, then I would probably leave this board and go hang out with your friends. You seem to get it there. If you want to have a chance of saving your marriage then I would probably spend a lot more time thinking about what the folks here are telling you. I would probably be paying close attention to the tone in their words. You are drawing "angry" responses because of your words and attitudes. If you are drawing those types of responses from people who don't even know you, I can't even imagine what you are getting from your W, who once loved you. You will change NOTHING (and probably worsen things) if you continue to make excuses for your behavior while lacking understanding of her behavior. You seem to think that you apologizing is enough. You seem to think that you didn't know better. You seem to think she should come back because you say so. You're completely ignoring her pain! It's like having a gigantic wound on our arm. Someone puts a bandaid on it and says we're fine. Only we're not fine, we still have a gigantic open wound under the bandaid. We need stitches, antibiotics and healing time. You are trying to stick a bandaid on her gigantic open wound and you just don't see it. And I wonder if there is hope of you ever seeing that.

I'm praying for you.

LIS

[Big Bruce]

Hi Guys,
W is not guilty, nor am I. There's no guilt in the process, only responsible people. I take responsibility for what happened, if I am the leader in the couple, when it fails, it is the leader who takes the blame.

It's been a long time I stopped listening to my friends, I prefer to chose the path of love, even if it is met with rejection by W. But I won't grow weary, because while I was a sinner, God loved me and didn't give up.
I know where W is coming from, emotionnaly. I understand. I just don't agree with her decision, that's all.

I acknowledge her pain, her wanting her needs met, and her pulling out of an unsatisfactory marriage from a selfish husband. She wanted something I didn't give her, and as a consequence she gets rid of me.

So I try my best and put a band-aid on, and obviously it isn't enough for such a big wound, so she inflicts me a deeper wound by separating, to make sure I'm wounded too and making sure that nobody heals, and that our S, the only one who has nothing to do with all of it, reaps the consequences of both our being immature...

Anyways, just writing to say that I agreed to meet with W, W's L, and my L on Thursday to try and settle visitation time.
Preliminary discussion looks like one week I'll see S three times, and the second week I'll have S from Friday evening to Monday morning.

Does it look like fair to you?
Should I ask for more, especially the first week where I only see S for three times two hours (that's 6 hours for me, against 162 hours for W!)

Also, for how long should I agree this transient state to last? One month, two months max?

How should I appear Thursday, interested by only S, or should I propose for W to see a counsellor, even if only ONE appointment?

Thank you for your insight,
Bruce.