Rinse, repeat, replay

[nero]

hopper- i just wanted to comment on a prior post of yours about your h seeming happier, etc. and also aboutyou being guy in control.

as a woman feeling mightily out of control alot of the time- i admire your strengh and foresight.

i'm working very hard and doing lots and lots better with the whole let it cool off and let it simmer thing.

i do from time to time ask a question or comment and "tip my hand". i'm trying to remember what tsq or someone out there and wise said "if you've said it once - they heard it - don't repeat".

funny thing tho- he hears what i say (probably- maybe) he has no idea of the things he's said. i'm pretty much sure across the board he panics when he "argues" and just throws out all kinds of dopey junk and isn't even aware.

anywy- i get off point- you're strength of character are inspiring. i'm trying hard- im using your good example.

i'm, not nearly as nice about it i think- but i'm at least keep ing that under wraps most of the time.

i'm outta here- lost my thread. hope you're feeling well and kids too. i think about you alot- i sure wish we all were neighbors so could help each other out in person- but this is still great and a real blesisng in my life.

hang in there- xxo

[sam4nh]

They have to get to the very bottom layer in order to face their demons, accept that they were not a fault for what transpired as children and grow up.

OH my gosh. This statement hit quite a cord with me. My W is still fighting all of those demons from childhood. She has time and time again said that a lot of time she felt things were her fault. But how can it be their fault with they are five and six years old. How very sad it is to have this on your conscience or sub conscience and never really come to terms. I think my W has been in therapy for years and years and she’s never really resolved those issues. After we got together she stopped going and working on those childhood issues. I could speculate on why, but does it really matter now?

A few months ago we were talking and something came up about the issues and she got all upset with me and said that, “She was NOT ashamed of what happened to her as a child”. I said I did not think she should be as she was only a child and she did nothing wrong. The only person who should be ashamed and would have to answer to God was the person that caused her harm. She then went onto say as she had before that she truly resents her parents for not “protecting” her, her sister and others when they were kids. I could not agree or disagree since I have never had things like that happen to me.

[Raine]

Hey nero! Thanks for your thoughts and friendship. I wish we could be closer too. I feel like some of my married friends think I have some kind of contagious disease (stay away or you might be next!) and divorced friends don't entirely get it. The main thought that keeps me going through this is that is my sons' father and I'll do anything I can to prevent him from becoming a complete loser in their eyes. If that means I have to make a lot of sacrifices so I don't push him into a path of no return, I'll do it. I also know that deep down he loves and cares about me, and whoever he is right now, it's not him.

Continuing from last post about dinner convo with H...

H talks a lot about S8 being just like him. As we were talking about things in H past being repressed, one time specifically when I said someone should have talked to him, that he should have been in counseling, I mentioned that I’m not allowing S8 to repress his feelings, and it’s good. S8 is talking to me about things. I mentioned to husband about S8 getting in trouble at school. I rarely mention anything about the kids to him, and I let H know I talked to S8 about acting out, but that I was happy that S8 came home and told me what he had done right away and we talked about it. I said that was the important thing to me. I don’t want him hiding from things. I want him to talk to me. Before all this, you could call S8 a perfect child. Innocent, loving, never hurt anyone, never get in trouble. He’s still amazing, but I know he is acting out. H had a hard time with this, but didn’t say too much. I’m guessing it was a mix of not wanting to think that his abandonment is having an impact on the kids and that he should be talking to S8 more about what is going on with him.

H spent a lot of time talking about things he was up to, and apologized for boring me. I said he wasn’t, that he’s just excited about them. No talk of baby, although I did talk to him about the family member he wanted to name the baby after before bomb drop, and how I had talked to his Dad about this man more and was excited about what I found out.

H mentioned how my brother had apologized for not inviting him to super bowl night. I told him I’m sorry he wanted to go. I should have invited him, but didn’t seem like he wanted me to go to something previously, so I was just backing off. He said that he didn’t think I wanted him there either time. It’s so frustrating. Yes he will go to anything I ask him to, but he doesn’t ever ask me to go. I don’t want to be in that relationship again where I am his mother. Where everything is on me. He seems like he is just begging me to take up that role again, begging me to pursue him. And when I don’t, he just pursues other women. It’s that tightrope of being his friend, not wanting him to feel so isolated there is no path back, and then not wanting to be with him. That feeling of just wanting to D him so I don’t have to try and make these contact decisions anymore.

At one point I was talking about the OW#3 and said that she was his type. He mentioned who his top three women were, and she was nothing like them. I said that I think he wants every woman to want him. He agreed. I then said that I thought he would go with any woman who was willing. He completely disagreed. I said he would close his eyes and be fine with anything. Which ended up in a joke about he would absolutely not go for. But I made my point.

He talked about how he is the boss at work, but he is not the boss anywhere else. He’s not the boss at home or in other places. I told him I think that’s something he needs to work on, that he needs to be the boss of more aspects of his life. He agreed and felt he was starting to get there.

I ended up playing games with him through the phone for quite a while after we were both home. I’m just so torn. I so want to go and get a lawyer and get this over with, simply because of hating having to be on my toes around him and what to do and what to say, and because I feel so disrespected.

[nero]

hey hiya:

thinking about you and hope you're feeling nd doing okay. you've sure got your work cut out for you-

i don't know- this business of "god only gives you what you can handle" - i think i'm not so sure. i think we all have waaaay more than we can handle - yet we manage somehow to plug forward. i don't know what it is- what sort of God would want to torture perfectly nice human beings with this junk? i think it's random cruelty of man whose got free will. i vote that next time god just makes everyone nice and decent and humane and kind. what's so wrong with that?

I feel like some of my married friends think I have some kind of contagious disease (stay away or you might be next!) and divorced friends don't entirely get it.

boy is that ever true. I even saw a magazine article saying "is it catching?" . i think men are jerky enough to think it looks good to them (well, my dope of a h anyway)

i think everyone in the world that knows us thinks i'm really nice BUT crazy (or lazy or scared or something like tht) and he's a giant rat that should be executed immediately. oh well huh? I really appreciate that the ones that see him from time to time manage to keep their opinions to themselves and interact like normal. i think in the end- it's alot easier for me if that is the case- he can just live in the dark til i figure out what's my own road here.

I also know that deep down he loves and cares about me, and whoever he is right now, it's not him.

good for you to have such feeling and to also keep him worthy for your sons' sake. it's worthy goal. kids don't deserve to deal with all our adult junk - imho... time enough for that when they're alot older - (or never hopefully)

i began dbing thinking this (that he does in fact care deeply for me and imho loves me) - i hope i can manage to continue - but really am not sure anymore. today i feel quite hopeless about it all- it's wearing me down a bit. i hate having to be all hard and tough all the time- i'm just not.

WELL, your h's sadness or guilt will just be his price to pay- about SON 8. the poor kid- what the heck does HE feel in his little life to have his family life as he knows it pulled out from under his feet. i can only think how devastating i find it- and I was 60 yrs old and been around quite a bit. AND STILL - it was so awful i never could have fathomed how bad it could fee. even my dad's death when i was 18 after lung cancer for 6 months at home- didn't stack up to this. don't know how that could be- just is/was. i guess a girl's mate- devastaging.

SO- A KID - how would he feel other than so confused he could probably croak- thank goodness you've got good communication going with him and he can talk to you and tell you. i'd think that alone can be his salvation. my own personal theory about tragic people i've kn own - never talked about "IT" - anything, couldn't share, broodie, solitary, etc.

as long as he's talking and his feelings are validated- i'd think he'll be okay in the end. (but h will alwaysh ave alot to answer for) &*sorry, i can be judgemental sometimes - alot. i hate kids being hurt - even coincidentally... we're their protectors in life- how can we make it harder?

Yes he will go to anything I ask him to, but he doesn’t ever ask me to go. I don’t want to be in that relationship again where I am his mother. Where everything is on me. He seems like he is just begging me to take up that role again, begging me to pursue him. And when I don’t, he just pursues other women. It’s that tightrope of being his friend, not wanting him to feel so isolated there is no path back, and then not wanting to be with him.

i know what you'e saying. why the heck is it like that? i don't want to be his mother. i certainly can't pursue if the whole m wd spiel is don't pursue- just detach and gal. my h also- he'll go if i ask- he doesn't offer or instigate. he has "somethign" with ow he cannot (or will not?) ever let go of? don't know- getting mighty tired of being understanding and feeling his indifference. i don't understand what they want from US - if they want that other life and ow? wtf?

That feeling of just wanting to D him so I don’t have to try and make these contact decisions anymore.

SO - can it be THAT easy- just d him and it's over? i will be mighty sad and life disheveled i'd think for a long long time (maybe forever - don't know?) you have kids - you'll see him forever- you'll try and make it all happen for kids - to save them - to help them- CAN you get "out of it" anyway???? i'm not trying to be depressing here- i know you'll maybe feel unshackled- but out of it? even with only me and my heart - will 35 years disappear from my consciousness & memory? i wonder?

At one point I was talking about the OW#3 and said that she was his type. H

i can hardly believe you have the self control and detachment to chat about this stuff. i still want to run over him with car. his ow was someone i was friends with back in the day- i hate her- i hate the thought of her- i don't know who else- i don't trust one thing about him or his words - or the past- i just can't talk about it like it's nothing tho-j ust cannot seem to go there- you sure have alot of intestinal fortitude- i'm in awe...

MY NOT-H began really going off deep end with computer- phone- ow(s) when he retired and got computer. TALK ABOUT not being boss anywhere- he came home fulltime and all of a sudden the house i'd run for 25 years wasn't big enough for both of us- it was HIS HIS HIS - his friends, his tennis, me not welcome anywehre all of a sudden. real issues - i cannot guessw where all that goes or ends. or if it ever ends.

i think he just used me for all those work years to have a happy peaceful comfortable home- now he's 18 again and wants freedom. idk- no juice to figure it out today...

I’m just so torn. I so want to go and get a lawyer and get this over with, simply because of hating having to be on my toes around him and what to do and what to say, and because I feel so disrespected.

wow- that's where i am this morning too- tho not married so don't even need the attorney. i keep thinking should i get au-haul and haul my possessions out of this house and walk out of his life forever and be done with it. i'm so tired of the being strong- trying to be detached - always putting aside my feelings or reactions, etc.

is it all worth it? is he worth it? was i mistaken for 30 years? am i nuts ? is this working or am i just dragging my feet- BOY- IT IS SO HARD isn't it?

oh well- will continue to read along and be around. thanks for the note and thoughst- i have a bad feeling this is what we allllll feel.

it's just a matter of how long we can do it- one more day , stacked on one more day, etc.

my own pride nags me to just do something- end it- get off the hook somehow. my brain says have a job first - have the ability to pay a mortgage to buy him out of half of house- don't be a dope and go off half cocked.

i think either way- it'll be bad and i'll be sad & lonely & poor- what a combo huh? always seems prudent to wait one more day before diving into that particular new giantly sad aspect of my life.

NEVERMIND what the heck is goign on with him- i hate the moods and want him to grow up now. oh well- sorry to rant. you sure seem to have alot of this under control- i am riding it out as best i can- i do not even pretend to have control other than i'm getting waaay better at paitence and not fighting or even talking alot of the time with him-

i wonder if he even notices? oh well- i'm outta here-

sorry to be dreary today- you sound very well and "together' out there. it's amazing people's "stories" nd their fortitude. you're an inspiration. i'm stil marveling over your strength of character to be talking about ow, etc.

wow and wow - you're good - take care- keep you pma - sounds good with s8 - it's a big big job for you so goodl uck and we're all with you- hang in there. if you still feel he loves you- you can do it- one more day. you can always chuck it all tomorrow. i've told myself that about fifty million times. i don't know- 1.70 year since full knowledge - how long can i REALLY do it? don't know- but til tomorrow at least.

yay- valentines day- could that be any sadder????? oiy...

xxoo we'll survive

[Raine]

nero, thanks so much for your post. I too don't agree with "God only gives you what you can handle." I don't think God had anything to do with this. I think we live in an imperfect world, with imperfect people, and we ourselves are imperfect. There is bound to be plenty of suffering for us without God pulling any strings. I do believe however that when we go through trials, that God is there to comfort us and strengthen us so we can handle what we're going through, not that we were strong enough to handle it at the beginning. I know I wasn't back in August. I was a suicidal mess.

I hate feeling the way you've been feeling too. Just when I think I'm at a good place, there is always something new. I really just want to run away from it all. I don't want to hear that "he may be in MLC, but you just never know." I just want someone to shake me and say "it's MLC and it's not going to be like this forever. Just hold on." I feel like I'm doing the right things, but there is the ever present feelings of doubt.

[Raine]

And so the story continues...

H decides to go to a parking lot last week and make out with OW#1. Second time caught in a car with OW#1 now. Stupid teenager makeout crap. Seriously what 36 yr old goes and makes out in a parking lot? Not like the car was hidden anywhere, or towards the back. And how do I know this? Oh because my brother and his D15 pulled in right in front of them. Brother’s D had no idea about any of this stuff going on. She flipped out. Most people just know that we have separated to work on some personal issues.

So I get a text from brother about it and I no longer feel can I ignore it. Cat is out of the bag. I called H. I pretty much talked to him like I was a friend, trying not to talk to him like he is a child. I said stuff like this:

“Seriously, you need to do that in a place where anyone could see you, family, friends, etc? These kids idolize you.” “Whatever happens with us, whether we are ever together again, you don’t need this kind of stuff following you, because this is not you.”
“Karma is a biotch. Second time now?”
“You’re playing with fire, and what are you going to do if this goes south and she goes to HR, just as you have seen happen to others?”
“You do what you feel you need to do, but I don’t agree with it.”
“I’m not your mother.”
“This has nothing to do with me.”

I told him I care about what happens to him and it’s hard to watch him doing so much damage to himself and know there is nothing I can do to help him.

His reaction was non-apologetic, of course. Basically the, “I’m done with trying to hide it.” And “That’s fine. Everyone can just hate me now.” I told him to get over his pity-party. I told him that he told me not to trust him, so I don't, and that he is a liar. He says he’s not a liar, just evasive. I said "Same thing." We hung up and then an hour later he was sending me game requests, which I ignored. He was an hour late for work the next day. Rough night I suppose.

He did not go see OW all weekend, even though I knew he had plans to. He stayed in his hole, other than he took the kids both on Sat/Sun for a few hours each time. He even brought stuff to make dinner with them on Sunday. He called me before to see if I had ingredients on hand, but I had ignored his call, so he brought it all.

He continues to call over nonsense reasons. He has been better about calling to say g'night and told me he feels really bad when he looks at the time and it's way past their bedtime. Of course there are very simple fixes for something like that, but he needs to figure those out. I am as dark as I am probably ever going to be. No FB, no games, no messages, no answering the call the first time. I think I still love him, but I really don't like him.

[NLW]

[quote=Hopper]And so the story continues...

H decides to go to a parking lot last week and make out with OW#1. Second time caught in a car with OW#1 now. Stupid teenager makeout crap. Seriously what 36 yr old goes and makes out in a parking lot?

Hopper,

To answer your question - my H did exactly the same - although he was 41 years old at the time.

They did it in my car too, not hers. So POS would have been in my passenger seat at the time. It was broad daylight.

I got an anonymous letter telling me that someone saw them (this was when he'd told me the A was over after i found out about it the first time).

These days i think the anonymous letter was probably written by POS OW herself.

I suspect stbx was at the point of wanting to be found out.

This is so ghastly. Please keep your chin up.

[nero]

hiya and happy valentines day.

i'm sending val. greetings because i think we can all still appreciate and care for each other out there- friends tho not in person- i hope your day is okay and i'm thinking about you.

I just want someone to shake me and say "it's MLC and it's not going to be like this forever. Just hold on." I feel like I'm doing the right things, but there is the ever present feelings of doubt.

OH GOD - MY DEAR - I WOULD pay cash money to hear the same thing and BELIEVE IT. UNFORTUNATELY- IT it was God or some other reputable source i might. i tell myself - i read the book - i still am nagged by the doubts. oh well - this being human su_ks doesn't it?

today, as usual -i'm grateful to be alive, healthy & sane. ta da.. remember - we can ALWAYS walk away tomorrow if we want to. do not explode before bedtime.


your other post- your h with ow1 - sadly , the stories i hear confirm that not only is itn ot wierd and out of the realm of sanity- it's STINKING COMmon. what a sad sad comment. a step sister in law has filed for d afgter about 30 years of that junk- CAN YOU EVEN IMAGINE 30 years oif it? i 'm hoping she met someone new and is in line for some happiness and that is what has motivated her. fingers crossed- NO BODY deserves to feel like this for thirty stinking years!!!!!

i have to submit this becasue i can't see the rest of your posts to comment. hang in there- on a good day i can see it is a type of insanity- and having a few close brushes with total and official insanity- i can say it is an awful thing-

today i waffle- but hey-

hang on... you can do it. i never thought i could- but dawn and i were just comparing notes on how we felt a year ago- there's a hell of alot of improvement- i never thought i'd get functional again- ta da- i am (not peak performance - but not on the floor anymore) (moved to a chair) but still alive.

xxoo (((( ))))

[nero]

hiya again-

the whole (in your car thing) - try on my side3 of the bed- i know it- i ahte it- i am willing it to the back of my mind while i regroup in life enough to find out my own bottom line and what i will do with it all.

will it back there- you can always think about it some later day- today- shutit off if possible.

my h is so juvinile - i could cry for the lost man that was sooo nice - soooo smart - soooo decent. (or else i was having a total dream sequence for 30+ years)

anyway- hang on- my neices baby- first time i picked her up this visit- blurted out as we drove up to my house- my mommy has a picture of your houseo n her phone - with the red car. when i asked who was in teh red car- she said (4 years old) "jacka$$) " so i guess everyone on the earth feels compelled to spy- me, not so much. i read two letters on e-mail and phone and that was enough to decimate me. all the rest is merely gratuitous pain- no thanks.

it's all so much the same crap- we can pray- remind ourselves of why our cup is half full - and just put one foot in front of another.

today- think of your lovely lovely kids and how much they love you and bask in it- it is something very darn huge.

xxoo ((( )))

[nero]

hopper - don't know what buttons my fingers are hitting today.

rushing like mad- try and hang in there- i might have responded to you with someone elses post and idon't know what all. i'm confused just this moment about buttons i'm pushing.

just wanted to say sorry for mistaken identify if i did it.

lets all hope there is justice in the universe and "as ye sow, so shall ye reap". yes, i'm petty enough to hope someday these guys have total realization and honestly look at themselves and realize they have thrown away love and may never have THAT again- what they had with us.

oh well- xxoo