Wow, this is really interesting!

So my question for your H would be this: If he wasn't M'd, would he still work 80 hours a week? And if he would, then what does that have to do with loving his W, when she wouldn't exist? Who would he be "loving" by his actions then? My answer: himself. I don't think you can claim that you're doing it out of love for someone else when you would do anyway if you were alone. Then it just becomes rather narcissistic, that your spouse is blessed just by being around you while you continue to live your life the way you do when you're single.

I've thought for years that my H still carried a flame for his ex, though he denies it adamantly. Regardless of his words, I could see things in his actions. Even while he claimed to hate her (she D'd him and devastated him financially,) he would always talk kindly to her, never lower the bar in his interactions with her. He could have easily managed certain day-to-day problems if he had lied to her, but he just wouldn't. We recently had a conflict because he went to his ex-FIL's funeral, and of course hung out with his ex-inlaws for awhile afterwards. He hasn't had a relationship with them in 20 years, but there was no talking him out of it, even though he knew it bothered me. *That* speaks more to love that his words, and more love of his ex/family than of me.

I also think love has to be pure, or it's just something else. I think if you choose to lie to prevent an issue with your spouse, then there's something operating at a higher level than love, most likely selfishness. I don't think they can both exist at the same moment. I relate it to being on a diet. You're either on a diet or you're not. You can't say you are, and then chow down an entire chocolate cake. *That* is not being on a diet. Being on a diet means that you do the hard work of saying "no" when the cake is placed in front of you, not lie about the cake so you can continue to claim to be on a diet. When people see you chowing on the cake after stating that you're on a diet, I'm pretty sure they believe you're *not* on a diet, especially if there is a pattern. Of course, then there's the difference between being on a diet and wanting to lose weight. I believe that you can chow down an entire cake and still *want* to lose weight. So I guess that's where the feeling part comes in. And as long as you're not trying to cram a 400lb body into a size 4 pant, you can do that your whole life.

And I think *that* is where our H's have screwed up. They're trying to fit their poor behavior into a happy M, and it just doesn't fit.

So maybe I've done a full circle and have landed exactly where you are. In the diet analogy, I can believe that he *wants* to lose weight. I can also believe he will continue to eat everything in sight. As a result, he is not going to fit into size 32 pants. In our M, I could at least consider that he has feelings of love for me, but I also believe he will continue to exhibit selfish behaviors that far outweigh the loving ones, and so he will not fit into a happy M. With me, anyway.

I'm just babbling as I think this through. I guess I believe that he could love me, but it isn't his dominant feeling. When there is no "chocolate cake" competing for his interest, then he can love me. But there's just always chocolate cake somewhere, isn't there?


Me:49 WAW H:59
T:19.5 M:19
S:13