You want to debate Christian values with someone, I’m your girl, I’ll do it with you all day long. I will show you how YOU violated the vows first. How YOU continue to violate your vows. And how your W is actually NOT necessarily in violation. It offends me tremendously, as a Christian, how others misapply and misuse the scripture as a means for excusing their own bad behavior or for “damning” another because they are not doing what we want. Perfect example are the nuts who run around harassing homosexuals for the sake of the Bible while they themselves are lying, cheating and stealing (all against the 10 commandments UNLIKE homosexuality).
I like Galatians because it teaches us who we are supposed to be as a person. It is a guide for proper behavior in an orderly society:
Galatians 5:22-23 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Love – you show little love to your wife. I see little concern for her welfare. I see a whole lot of pride on your part. I see a whole lot of hurt on your part, which you seem to think excuses you from the obligation of love. You are wrong, you are not excused (turn the other cheek). She is entitled to half of the money and she clearly needs that to support herself. If you loved her, if you had compassion for her, you would understand this.
Joy – obviously there is no joy in your interactions. Again, you think because of the nature of your situation, you are excused from this as well. Again, you are wrong.
Peace – Well, you aren’t supporting peace in the least as you continue to come on here, make passing comments about your bad behavior, while trashing your W. Please don’t tell me that you are peaceful with her. You create a bad environment when you are trashing her at all, anywhere.
Forbearance – “Tolerance and restraint in the face of provocation; patience.” Read that one carefully because you completely miss the boat on this one. You have shown NO tolerance of your W. You have made absolutely NO effort to understand or have any compassion for the hurt she feels, for the fear she probably feels, for what she has gone through. And patience? You clearly have none.
Kindness – I don’t know if it is the way you present yourself in writing or if this is truly what you are… but you DON’T present as a nice person. To merely suggest that your W is your enemy is horrifying. You are judgmental, nasty at times and very wrapped up in yourself. Based on what I see here, if I were a friend of your W’s, I would tell her to run far, far away. And Bruce? Take a poll on here and find out how many of the others say the same thing. There comes a time when we need to realize there isn’t something wrong with everyone else, there is something wrong with us. And listen, every single one of us has issues (I could go on for days and days about my own), but we do need to face them honestly and try to fix them.
Faithfulness – You show none to your W. And you didn’t in your marriage. Ignoring someone, as you admit you did, is not faithfulness. And coming here and trashing her is definitely not showing faithfulness.
Gentleness – Well, we beat this horse dead… gentle, you are not. Gentle implies that we have true and deep understanding of another. You don’t. You think you do, but you don’t. You still think that she’s in some sort of fog rather than someone who is in real pain. Sad, really.
Self-control – This is the one I wanted to get to! You have none. You have taken a lot of hits from the others. At times, I feel bad for you, but you are very hard headed and I know that everyone is so well-intentioned and trying to get you to understand. I know you are in tremendous pain. BUT you are not honest with yourself. You are so desperate for any attention from your W, for any interaction with your W, that I think you purposely go against the advice from others. In the case of you buying this house? I think it is another example of what I am saying. I sincerely believe the ONLY reason you brought this up right now is that you were trying to get a reaction from your W. Well, Bruce, you got one. But when our interactions lack authenticity, when we do things simply to get a reaction, we rarely get the response we want. In other words, provoking people will usually get a BAD response.
I have seen others (including a list of all stars) here give you outrageously good advice… I’m starting to feel bad for them as you largely ignore them. Your pride is clouding your judgment so badly, that you cannot see the way to the “truth.” You say you have Christian values? Then if I were you, I’d crack open that Bible and get ready to do a lot of reading. Open that Bible with the purpose of having God show YOU what you need to change. The Bible was not meant to damn others. In fact, those in the Bible who used it for that purpose were condemned horribly (Ex: Pharisees and Sadducees). The Bible is meant for us to change ourselves. Believe me, Bruce, I came on here with my “Christian values” and damned my H up and down because he violated our vows by leaving. It took a long time, a lot of reading and a lot of introspection to understand that it was ME who violated my vows long before he had. You need to humble yourself. Until you humble yourself, Bruce, the possibility of saving your marriage is exactly nil.
As far as getting shared custody with your son? I have a funny feeling that if you learn to follow the fruits of the spirit, that will become easier for you. At the end of the day, your W doesn’t control that situation, the courts do. And if they see fit? You will get the time with your son that you seek. But Bruce? If you present yourself in court, the way you present yourself here, you will not see a positive outcome. And, unfortunately, the courts would be right to make that decision for the sake of your son. Stop viewing everything as everyone else’s fault. Stop viewing yourself as having no control or as some sort of victim. You have control, it’s the way that you take that control that everyone takes issue with. Humble yourself. And FAST.
Hello, Mr Bond, I usually like your direct style, but on this one you went too far. I tell her about the money. Then she replies she wants it. Then, later the same day lawyer calls me. No it wasn't a coincidence or something Mr. Bond. I understand the concept of saying it's not all W's fault and look inside yourself, etc... but here it's plain.
Lis, thank you for such heartfelt an answer. I understand your points, some are very valid. I admit fault, you're right, I'm not super-christian man, and I could use improvements in all the areas you mention. The fruit of the Spirit is slow to grow indeed. I have to disagree on several points though. You said you would advise my W to leave me (!? surprising after the moral lesson you gave me).
As for the ten commandments it has been superseded by a new covenant, and anyways homosexuality is strongly condemned everywhere else in the Bible.
One thing you showed me though, she must be in terrible pain. My L received the official answer to my answer, and the same thing goes on: I'm a violent person, my son is in danger with me, etc... I wasn't even mad, like the first time. Only someone who suffers in the head could write such a piece of paper. Honestly? I'm sad for her. Unforgiveness is eating her up.
I really have compassion on her, I've been a jerk, and now she's messed up completely. I have been a lousy husband, and because of me, she's mentally not in tune anymore. I'm sorry for what I've done, and although I wish I could go back, there's nothing I can do about it.
The only thing I can do to try and ease her pain, I think for the moment is not contact her. She's gone so far in her bitterness and grudge, you just can feel it in her sworn answer, the anger, that the best thing is to steer clear. Big time.
I don't know if you said you were praying for me as a matter of speech or if you really are, but thank you, I need it lots, I'm sure you'll agree.
Bruce
Me:34 ; W:28 Son: almost 2. Married : 14 March 2009 DBomb : 18 June 2012 Separated since Jan 2012 (different countries) Same country and city since July 2012
In the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus clearly says that he came not to abolish the law but to fulfill it. It is very misunderstood what the new covenant means. But what it DOESN'T mean is that we are exempt from the 10 commandments, we are not. I like the NLV translation best here:
"Don't misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose."
Later in Matthew, Jesus adds (never takes away) to the commandments when we are told to "Love our neighbor as ourselves."
God abhors divorce but he does make room for it. This is also important to understand. At no point does he abolish it. The moral lesson I'm trying to give to you is to help you save your marriage. Because your words and attitude are unhealthy to her. You judge and trash your W for the sake of religion while being in complete violation yourself. Too often, people seem to believe that if my H beat me, it's ok to leave but if the abuse is only emotional, then I have no right to leave. It's not true! Many times the emotional scars are far deeper and far more dangerous than the physical ones. One of my dearest friends on this board had his W commit suicide. Depression is a VERY REAL thing.
Your W found herself in a state of being unhealthy as a result of staying in that marriage. You said NOW she's mentally "out of tune." I would disagree with that. She got out to save herself, which frankly is more than I have been able to do for myself. If you put your W and I in front of my therapist, he would tell you that SHE is more "in tune" and stable because her instinct to protect herself has kicked in.
I suggest that you spend some time in Matthew 7. Here we are told 1) Judgment is for God alone 2) People who seek to judge and condemn others are trying to take God's role and we are warned STRONGLY against doing this. 3) And that we are in no position to judge unless we, ourselves, have lived sinless lives.
We stand in judgment of others while we, ourselves, are sinners. And when I say judgment, I'm not talking about coming here and giving one another advice, I mean when we say things like:
1) She's messed up completely 2) She's mentally not in tune anymore
These are judgments not facts. And we need to be mindful of the difference. Our negative attitudes like these affects our spouses profoundly. And so many of us just don't get it.
Your W is in very real and profound pain. She is scared to death and dealing with a baby. I will guarantee her self-esteem has suffered tremendously as a result of her time in the marriage. When you say there is nothing you can do about what you have done before? I don't think that's true. YOU, and you alone, can start the healing. You can stop the judgments. You can work on the Fruits of the Spirit. You can support her in any way that she needs. You can be the best father this world ever did see. You can start reading the Bible for the purpose of fixing yourself. You can list all the wonderful qualities about your W and stop saying bad things about her. You can make a list of the things that you want to work on with yourself and make an action plan as to how to do that.
You are right to not contact her, but again, you are not hearing me as to why when you say, "She's gone so far in her bitterness and grudge." NO. This is not why you don't contact her. You don't contact her because it is clearly causing her a lot of pain. It is clearly causing further friction in your R. Contacting her is not accomplishing your goals of healing her. When you make statements like that it is a clear indication that you do not have the empathy REQUIRED to fix this thing. All of the marriages I've seen restored have the same recipe. Each of those reconciliations started with the LBS having empathy and deep understanding for the pain they caused. What they don't have is any type of judgment that you continue to show. And Bruce? You can't fake it. You really need to understand.
Anyone who knows me will tell you that yes, I keep a prayer journal and pray over it. So when I tell you that I am praying for you, you can take it to the bank.
One more thing which I want to let go because it's not important to my message but I just can't. You say, "homosexuality is condemned everywhere in the Bible." No, it is in some specific places (and it's important to understand the historical context because it is not as black and white as everyone believes). What is condemned "everywhere in the Bible," though, and far far far more than homosexuality:
I could go on and on. Take out a concordance and look up the references to those sins. There isn't even a comparison. As in human nature, we put a magnifying glass to everyone else in order to take the focus off ourselves. The Bible has warned repeatedly against doing this. And yet we continue to do it. If we ran around condemning the mean, judgmental, disrespectful, lying, cheating and stealing people? There wouldn't be a single one of us left. Not a single one. We are told to get the log out of our own eye and not worry about the speck in another's. If each one of us did that? This world would be a much better place. I'm not asking you to fix the world, though. I want you to fix yourself. Get the log out of your own eye.
LIS, I'd like to be in your prayer journal, too... DM45
Me 46 W 43 S 21 D 18 S 17 M 22 yrs Discovered OM 9/10/12 W moved to sister's 9/15/12 W moved to OM 9/27/12 Tried to DB until 7/13 W filed 10/7/13. Did not serve. I counter filed 12/2/13.
"I tell her about the money. Then she replies she wants it. Then, later the same day lawyer calls me. No it wasn't a coincidence or something Mr. Bond."
No one said it was a "coincidence". Everyone told you that if they were her L they would advise her to stay away from you and ask for money. Since you never had a talk with her, that still could be the case. You are turning it into a personal attack when it might just be the L telling her to get everything from you. 25 went over this with you already. But against everyone's suggestions, you brought up money.
"I understand the concept of saying it's not all W's fault and look inside yourself, etc... but here it's plain."
No you don't understand. What you did was wrong previously. Your W detailed everything very carefully. So either way you should have been looking inward regardless of what happened. The money issue is a consequence of it. She never wanted your money before that was very plain and she wanted you to be happy doing your own thing.
Go back and read your own posts. You were the one who wrote those things not us.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
My friends, Thank you for your patience and your helpful responses, after 7,5 months of separation one would think I made progress, but it has been up and down. One step forward, half backwards.
Since the beginning I'm told to look inside, and to understand W, but there was too much pain to do anything but try and ease the pain, you know. Now, things are a bit more into perspective, and I see myself a couple months back, with that blind pain consuming all my thoughts... The best would have been to not do anything rather than making things worse.
At the moment, I have to admit I am confused and saddened. Another stage of grief, one might say. W has written very clearly all her reproaches on her affidavit. Some stories are fabricated, others exagerated and distorted, other facts are just the plain truth. And what bothers me most is not the lies, because deep down I know its forged and it never happened. What bothers me is the truth, because I have egg all over my face when I read what I did to her, her suffering, her true suffering because of me.
Last Valentine, I told her that it all starts by a commitment heart-shaped ring, then comes an engagement ring, then a wedding ring, and as a gift of love, I was giving her the longsuffer-ring. It brings bittersweet memories, and I wonder if I should pull out that line this Valentine again or not ? (or too cheesy?)
I drew my Son's hands on a "Son's Valentine card", as suggested by 25yearsmic, so as to give something to W without being from "me".
The very next day, the 15th February, at 10h am there's the Court hearing for S custody. I can understand her not wanting to see me, but what does it have to do with her not wanting me to have S at all? All I'm asking is to see my S, like any dad would want. Worse thing is, we never had a talk with W about it. With her is all through lawyers, and emails. No phone conversations or amicable solutions or mediation. It's all Court and emails.
It's been almost 35 years that I'm a christian, so I'll take any explanation or point of view on stuff of the Bible with interest. I'm humble enough to recognize that there are many interpretations and that I don't have it all figured out, nevermind wanting to argue about this or that.
Thank you for your prayers, I'm striving to become a better man, a better husband if I'm given the chance, and certainly a good dad. But without help from above, I'm not sure I'll have the strength to proceed.
Good evening you all, Bruce.
Me:34 ; W:28 Son: almost 2. Married : 14 March 2009 DBomb : 18 June 2012 Separated since Jan 2012 (different countries) Same country and city since July 2012
