Retrouvaille

[scaredsilly]

All I can say is what I've read on here before: fake it 'till you make it. My H and I are trying to R. There are times when I think it's a mistake but I continue to try to push past those times and be happy with where I am at this moment. It's worrying about the future that gets me in trouble.

You might ask your W to think about trying this, to "act" as if she's happy until it becomes a habit. What does she have to lose?

[WearsTheSlippers]

W says she's still confused. She said she can't believe how "confident" and "collected" I am while she's still a train wreck. She said she wants to be where I am! I told her I feel that way because I've come to the realization that I will be fine with or without her (and it's true).

I get this from H as well. And it is true for me as well.

Sorry to hear that W said she still has no feelings, but remember, you are further down the path than she is at this point. I really find that our WAS tend to emotionally stay put much much longer than we do, most obviously due to the fact that we have DB (thank god for you guys!!). Did I mention that the slippers I wear are the Ruby slippers? No place like home

[AnotherStander]

I forgot to mention this in the last post, but the conversations between W and I have been very kind and polite, no arguing/ yelling/ etc. Even the above discussion was very matter-of-fact and even loving, and she very warmly hugged me before she left.

Don't get me wrong...it's an awesome program, but I think what you get out of it is largely based on what you are willing to put into it. If you don't really want it to work, I don't think it's going to, and I think that's what happened in my case (at least so far).

I totally agree with you, they often tout that those who go to all 6 of the followups have a 90% success rate (or something like that, it was really high) but personally I just think it's only because those who make all the followups were already pretty committed to making things work. So it wasn't so much the success of the program as just an indication of the personal willingness of those who went to all the sessions. And I'm not saying it's not a successful program, clearly it has been for many people. But I think people need to go into it with realistic expectations (or better yet, no expectations).

I am sorry to see that this is where things are going, AS.

Thank you, I really am fine though! I honestly didn't have any expectations that RV would save our marriage, it did give me some hope (as probably is clear in my OP) that W seemed to really respond to the original weekend program but obviously I was premature in thinking that it might mean reconciliation was imminent.

I just need to say what hope you give me! You strength and all the hard work you have put into yourself, really gives me hope that if I continue to do the work, I really will be fine with any outcome that comes my way.

Thank you! I did not initially set out with that goal in mind, my goal was 100% to save my marriage no matter what. I was truly desperate and in a bad place when I arrived on these forums. But DB'ing really does work to help us fix ourselves and make ourselves better people prepared for life with or without our spouses. It would be great if it was always "with"; but even if not, life will still be great.

AS, I'm sorry to hear this. At my BD my W said to me "I feel nothing for you". Not an easy thing to hear.

It really hurt deeply at BD. But now that I've been out on dates, I've heard things from these women that I haven't heard in years from my wife. I hope this doesn't sound too egotistical, but I'm a pretty good-looking guy, I'm in really good shape from 8 months of hard weight training, I'm a traditional southern gent and am very kind and respectful towards those I've dated. I've been out with 5 women and they all wanted to continue the relationship. I honestly was a little shocked at the compliments they paid me at first because I was so used to hearing zilch from my W. At first I was convinced they weren't being honest, that they couldn't possibly mean all those great things about ME. That's how beat down I was. It took me a while to accept that they really did mean the things they were saying, LOL! And not just that, but these are younger, beautiful women. So now when I hear my W say that the attraction is just not there, it doesn't hurt anymore, I just find it perplexing. I mean she most certainly thought I was attractive early on as she talked about it constantly, and if these other women are any indication then I've still got a bit of a spark going, but it's like W just refuses to see it. Really strange.

I can also see by your wife being 'scared' she is still confused.

I think you are absolutely right (in fact she's still talking about being confused), and I'm not saying it's over yet. But I think it shows that it's still going to take a lot more time for her to come around (if she ever does).

You might ask your W to think about trying this, to "act" as if she's happy until it becomes a habit. What does she have to lose?

Interesting that you should say that as one of her friends told her the same thing, but she didn't want to try that. Said it felt too fake. It's unfortunate because I really do think that works, it's similar to GAL. At first you don't want to and you have to drag yourself out even though your brain is telling you to curl up in a corner and wait to die, LOL! But if you force yourself, then the next time it's a little less difficult, and the more you do it the easier it gets until you find yourself actually enjoying it and looking forward to it. Same idea!

[stilllookingup]

W came over for the dialoging and that segued into a discussion of how the dialog and followup classes don't seem to be helping us progress in our marriage. W admitted that she still had no feelings for me and doesn't think she ever will. We both agreed that RetroV has really helped us with our communications, but that has not converted into any kind of marital breakthrough. I asked her how all this makes her feel and she said "scared". I asked her if she meant for me or herself, and she said herself. I asked what she meant by that and she said she wasn't sure. It was getting late and we were both tired, so we agreed to get together this weekend to discuss things further.

You have so much more experience in DB-ing I don’t know if my words will be any helpful but to me she’s still very confused.
I can’t help but to see similarities in your W and my H. She loves and cares about you but the hurt she bared for a long time is taking her over.. (and depressed)

I don’t know much about this RetroV program but it sounds like how the group session we attended worked for us. We both agreed that the dialogues and questionnaires we did were so helpful, we discovered a lot of each other’s feeling and thought we never knew. BUT he was still not happy at the end of the 6-week session. It seems to me every time your W gets involved in some kind of a marriage program; she gets cold feet really easily.

You mentioned somewhere that you never go back to your own posts but I’m sure a lot of people here like me read all of your posts for inspiration. To me your wife was much more open when she was at home while witnessing your 180 changes and before RetroV. Hopefully you can give her more time alone and see where it goes..

[Cadet]

I think you totally dont get it.

Your wife says she wants to work on the marriage, you say you are standing, she is scared and you are dating.

Do you realize that HER crisis is not a marriage issue?

It may look like a marriage issue, but it really is just HER having a crisis.

She is unable to magically come out of the crisis just because you go to a program, or you start dating.
She is still in her crisis.
Kind of like if you had cancer, you dont just magically get healed.

If she was sick with cancer would you be dating?
She might be unable to perform her marital duties if she was sick with cancer.
You need to heal, she needs to heal.
That takes TIME.
LOTS more TIME than most people are willing to give.

But if you look at it in the scheme of how long your marriage is, maybe it is a very short TIME.
If you are married 50 or 60 years, 5-7 years is pretty short.

Food for thought.

[MrBond]

Sorry to hear that. I agree with Cadet though. You two haven't given it enough time PLUS your W hasn't been completely honest with you. It's totally normal to have several "false-starts" in R before the real work comes in.

And it sounds like the two of you have focused so much on communicating that you haven't had time to just have fun together. It takes time and most importantly it takes faith. Your W couldn't see the way out of her hole so she stayed in there where it is safe.

[AnotherStander]

I don’t know much about this RetroV program but it sounds like how the group session we attended worked for us. We both agreed that the dialogues and questionnaires we did were so helpful, we discovered a lot of each other’s feeling and thought we never knew. BUT he was still not happy at the end of the 6-week session. It seems to me every time your W gets involved in some kind of a marriage program; she gets cold feet really easily.

I do have to give her credit that she has consistently said there was no chance for our marriage, she has never backed down from that. I saw some things here and there that gave me hope, but I could have been misinterpreting. The program you describe does sound very similar.

You mentioned somewhere that you never go back to your own posts but I’m sure a lot of people here like me read all of your posts for inspiration.

I just feel like going back through the old posts will make me re-live a lot of that pain. Most of it was just journaling to get me past certain points in the sitch and move on. I'm glad it's of value to others though

To me your wife was much more open when she was at home while witnessing your 180 changes and before RetroV. Hopefully you can give her more time alone and see where it goes..

When she was still at home it really seemed like things were going extremely well. We were getting along great. It did seem she was more open then, but as I've since learned what I THOUGHT she was feeling over the years was often completely wrong. I have RetroV to thank for that revelation, LOL!

I think you totally dont get it.

Your wife says she wants to work on the marriage, you say you are standing, she is scared and you are dating.

Hmmm, well I don't really see myself as standing anymore. And even though W said she was willing to try (I think it was on the way home from RetroV when she said that) she has since backtracked and said she's not willing, that there's nothing there to try for. The "scared" comment, that was last night and the first time I've heard her say that. Not sure yet what she meant by it, as I said we're going to talk more this weekend.

Do you realize that HER crisis is not a marriage issue?

It may look like a marriage issue, but it really is just HER having a crisis.

Do you think that? I'm asking in all honesty, because the way I see it she's not in a crisis at all. She's just done with me. She doesn't say it in an angry, hurtful or confused way, it's almost like she's talking about the weather.

If she was sick with cancer would you be dating?

Ummm, what form of cancer is it that puts her in another man's bed (or makes her invite him into hers) and makes her decide she doesn't like me, that's what I want to know, LOL! Maybe that's not totally fair since to this day I don't know how far her A has gone (and I'm making no effort to find out), but it's at least an EA, and probably a PA. But I'm not dating out of revenge or anything, I do care for her and wish her the best. Heck, I even get along great with the OM. I'm doing it because I am moving on, and I thoroughly enjoy the companionship.

[stilllookingup]

Ummm, what form of cancer is it that puts her in another man's bed (or makes her invite him into hers) and makes her decide she doesn't like me, that's what I want to know, LOL! Maybe that's not totally fair since to this day I don't know how far her A has gone (and I'm making no effort to find out), but it's at least an EA, and probably a PA. But I'm not dating out of revenge or anything, I do care for her and wish her the best. Heck, I even get along great with the OM. I'm doing it because I am moving on, and I thoroughly enjoy the companionship.

?? I think I missed something here. I didn't know there was OM involved. And that you get along with him? I'm confused.

[AnotherStander]

Sorry to hear that. I agree with Cadet though. You two haven't given it enough time PLUS your W hasn't been completely honest with you.

Oh man is that ever true!!! As I just mentioned in the above reply she's never disclosed anything on the sitch with OM. And there are so many other things she has just been totally silent on.

And it sounds like the two of you have focused so much on communicating that you haven't had time to just have fun together.

Absolutely true. That's been the case for many years. I've casually asked her to dinner, movies and painting classes since she moved out, but she always refuses unless the kids are along too. I've done the DB thing and gone anyway And when the kids come along she never sits next to me. So yeah, there's been no opportunities for us to have fun together. It's a shame because I'm actually pretty good at keeping people entertained

[Tallula]

Yeah, when did the OM come in to play?!