Keeping my wife from walking out

[E2Dad]

Yes, I’m reading the book. I’ll admit that I previously skimmed over parts that I thought didn’t necessarily pertain to me…a huge mistake.

I’m still making everything about ME. Me being sad because of the thought of losing our house, a huge chunk of my income, less time with the kids, all of it. Now she’s moved out of our bedroom and barely speaks to me..this makes me sad too. That is all me thinking only of ME. This has been a continual “more of the same” behavior from me for several months. So for all this impending crap that has to be dealt with that makes me feel sad, I need a what? An “as if” attitude? A Positive attitude? Keep it to myself and show a positive outlook? Whatever it is, I have to immediately change what I’ve been doing. This starts TODAY.

Did you read the book or are you still just guessing and reacting? Did you read the post I sent to you? B/C it took TIME to write and I'd like to think you'd read it since you evidently don't believe in reading the book this site is based on.

I needed the wakeup for me just guessing and reacting. Yes, I read your post. I will have more to day about that, thank you.

you "found out"? How? What happened to No more snooping?

A mutual friend told me. I have not snooped for about two weeks.

so you made some demands and she seemed to "obey" (I mean, agree???) and then what? She didn't obey you? Or you snooped or what? I don't see where the OM is in this post. And I wish you'd stop issuing your orders. If you sound to her the way you sound here, it's NOT helping you.

No, I had no idea she was contacting him again. When our friend told me, I asked my W if she had started contacting him again. She said yes, she had. Like I said, I told her I felt that it was not appropriate/unacceptable. She told me she would at least refrain from doing so until she moved out. That is one of the first "demands" I have ever stated. I agree, this is pointless. I have no ground from which to state demands at this point, because I garner no respect from her right now.

The only thing I want to take away from all that is I approached her with sadness....I was very "sad" that she would start contacting him again. So again, I'm seeing a pattern here of my interactions with her. Sadness. Like wanting my mommy to come and soothe me.

how did your "counteracting" work for YOU? Did it make you more attractive to her? Did it make her want to be around you more? Did it make YOU feel better? What, if anything, did you learn?

It made us both feel awful. Obviously, it made her feel much much worse when she was looking at it from the standpoint of something positive for her career. All I could do was think of being "sad" for myself because she was going to see OM again---yes, I understand this is me guessing. It needs to stop.

Stop looking for reasons to give up. It makes you seem lazy and as if you are totally unable to control your mouth or attitude.

OK. This is my tendency. This is the hardest thing I've ever been through, and I'm crumbling. What does it say about me? I'd rather succumb to sadness and wait for someone else to pull me out of it. This is HUGE for me--a long term issue.

What I can gather, these are the immediate things that need to be worked on today:

Sadness
Guessing
Passive-agressiveness
Lack of support

My W is so far gone right now, that things will be pretty slow to start, I imagine. But then again, this is just me guessing....

Geez, I can't believe I was ready to give up....what does that say about me?

As for as GAL, I have a time problem. Our schedules are as follows: I work 10-12 hours per day, 6 days a week right now. As soon as I get home, my W leaves for her work, so I spend all that time with the kids until their bedtime. I don't have time to GAL right now, so to me it means all I can do is work on 180's at this point. I don't know what else to do... except read the book.

Thanks for telling me I need an attitude adjustment....if this is how I come off to you, how am I coming off to my W??

[LJC]

Hey E2Dad - I'm not as 'qualified' as others on here and I'm going thru the mill as well purely because I don't see or here from W unless its about the kids. That is hard! What Im saying is we're all in different Sitch's so you have to 'modify' DR to suit!

So why can't GAL include your kids?

When my family lived at home I'd come home from work and generally switch off from everyone, pay no attention to the kids, rarely ask my W how her day was and what she got upto and now they are gone, my family live in another house. You've been given something to work with, your W and Kids.

[E2Dad]

LJC, yes GAL can include the kids. On that front we do a lot of things together while my W is at work--they are supremely happy to be around me lately. That is one huge thing I've changed from before. I was like you where I'd come home from work and just let the kids watch TV or do whatever so long as I could veg out, doing nothing, because I was so "stressed". That is one big change I've made.

I don't want them to leave...but I may have put things into a position where it's inevitable. I will just have to work around that. I think this will take a while to work out. I had a chance, but I lost it, now I have to work with what I have.

[stilllookingup]

Thanks for telling me I need an attitude adjustment....if this is how I come off to you, how am I coming off to my W??

That's the spirit

[AnotherStander]

I’m still making everything about ME. Me being sad because of the thought of losing our house, a huge chunk of my income, less time with the kids, all of it. Now she’s moved out of our bedroom and barely speaks to me..this makes me sad too. That is all me thinking only of ME.

It's OK, don't feel bad about that. We all go through that, it's a natural part of the grieving process. Don't fight it and don't wallow in it, just understand that those are emotions that need to roll through before you can move on to a better place. Emotions don't control us if we don't let them. Just understand that your fear and sorrow are largely because of the unknown, you don't know how you're going to come out the other side and naturally you're scared of it. I was there too. But you will come out, and you will establish your "new normal", and you will come to realize that you'll be fine. It takes time, but you'll get there.

This has been a continual “more of the same” behavior from me for several months. So for all this impending crap that has to be dealt with that makes me feel sad, I need a what? An “as if” attitude? A Positive attitude? Keep it to myself and show a positive outlook? Whatever it is, I have to immediately change what I’ve been doing. This starts TODAY.

This is why we constantly harp on GAL around here, GAL is the key to PMA. Michele talks in DR about how you can sit around wondering why PMA doesn't come to you, but the longer you sit around waiting for it the longer you will be miserable. So she says get up, go out and do something. ANYTHING. Take that first small, difficult step, every one after that gets easier.

My W is so far gone right now, that things will be pretty slow to start, I imagine. But then again, this is just me guessing....

It's a marathon, not a sprint. Things will be veeeery slow to start. That's why it's important to do it for you, and to drop all expectations.

As for as GAL, I have a time problem. Our schedules are as follows: I work 10-12 hours per day, 6 days a week right now.

Well that's tough to be sure. But do what you can to work something in now and then even if it's just walking the dog around the block or taking the kids for ice cream. This is VERY important to your well-being. I can tell you having been there, a bad attitude will NEVER bring your W back. PMA is what will do it. My W told me at RetroV that she can't believe how happy and at peace I am and it made her wonder what was up with me, she wanted to find out how I did it because she wants it too, and can't find it!! SHE left to find PMA but didn't, I stayed home and did! This is what gets the WAS interested again, they want to know your secret to success.

[E2Dad]

Hi everyone—just wanted to give a status update.

So, from previous conversations with my W about divorce, custody of our D’s, financial obligations, etc. I learned that my pouty, cranky little boy was not the correct ME to show to my wife (or anybody for that matter!!) Typically I would look away, put on my saddest face and then sound hurt when I spoke, and now I see that this is a perfect 180 for me. So this time when my W approached me about it, I was polite and positive and mostly just listened to what she had to say and only offered my opinion when she asked. I don’t want to stonewall or drag my feet because she looks upon this as me trying to manipulate the situation. I figure no matter what the outcome of our M, I will have plenty of opportunity to become the man I want to be.

Since she’s moved into the spare bedroom, she knocked on my door later that night and asked to talk again. She wanted to discuss more detail about divorce, and I kept the same approach as I did earlier. She started to get very emotional about feeling trapped here and wanting to go back to her country. For the first time ever, I just validated her…I keep reading how other people are doing this, and I finally had an opportunity. I told her that it must be so hard to deal with all those feelings and emotions about wanting to go back home. I pulled myself completely out of the equation and tried to really understand how she feels. The last thing she said was that it was so unfair that I wouldn’t allow her to go back there with our daughters—it was only going to be for a year. She said she desperately needed it. I resisted all temptation to tell her that her previous request was only for the sake of our D8, not my W. Instead I continued validating her….it was hard but I did. She then left to go to bed…

…and then came back about 10 minutes later, crying. She said she hated it that I can be so strong about things, and that I have all the power in this divorce and that she has to continue counting on me for money after she separates because things are too expensive here. She ranted and ranted and cried for a long time about how things are so unfair. I asked her if the only way she could be happy was for her to go back to her country, and she said she wasn’t sure any more. Then she broke down and told me the OM had dumped her and didn’t want anything else to do with her. Now I see the magnitude of my childish behavior on Sunday when she was so happy to have found a university in her country to help her pursue her dreams. While I was thinking she would be shacking up with the OM, she already knew he had basically washed his hands of her. She told me that since August she has had it in her mind that the OM would wait forever for our M to end, because their love was so “strong and true”. In the end, my W was just another lay for him….

She told me she wished things could be different. She said if I only knew how to love a wife then things could be different. I didn’t disagree or push it this time, I just continued validating. Every other time I have pushed back with “YES I DO!!”, or “YOU’RE WRONG”. This time I just let it flow. After all her emotions came out, she became much more calm and even a little happy again. We talked all through the night about how great our M was, and how we didn’t mean for it to get to where it is. She told me the business-like aspect of divorce is disgusting to her, and she would rather have a ceremony where we agree to enter a new phase of our lives. I don’t know about all that, but I now see how heavy a toll this is taking on her. She said she felt jealous thinking about me finding “someone else” and that she should be the one to pick out my next relationship partner. I didn’t push back against this at all. We got closer and closer to each other to the point where we were sitting on the edge of the bed hugging each other. When she said it was time to sleep, I asked her to stay with me and she agreed. I held her all night. It was very, very tender and peaceful.

I have no doubt that she will be back to cold and distant today…things go like that right lately. I have a lot of work to do to continue the 180’s I picked up last night. I still think I’m a little clingy at times when she gets so emotional, but I feel like I can control it more now that I am aware of it. It will be hard not to act on my desire to grab her and hug and kiss her when we see each other tonight, but I don’t want to push anything. I feel like I’ve got a toehold on some positive changes in me, and I don’t want to backslide. Sleeping with me last night while she already decided to move into the other bedroom must be confusing for her this morning, and I need to respect that.
Wow, sorry this ended up being so long!!

[fade]

Its amazing how effective proper validation can be with a WAS. Its hard to demonize someone who is just mirroring and emphasizing with you.

However, one issue that happens a lot right about now is once you start validating their feelings, the WAS will then start looking for validation of their plans and actions. In your case, her thinking might be that if you agree that its soooooo sad that she is homesick with no chance to reconnect with OM, then she will think you must also agree that the best course of action is for you to pay her alimony while she goes back to her home country for her OM, I mean education.

Ive seen people start moving from validating to bargaining before they even realize it. The trick is sticking with your boundaries on facts and actions while validating her feelings. Agree with her that it must be really tough for her, but dont even discuss plans that are unacceptable to you. Im not an expert in validation, but from negotiating experience things like 'I' statements for validating and passive voice and 'we' for expressing boundaries can work well - eg "I understand this is difficult for you...the kids cant leave the country right now; I know not getting to do XX right now is difficult for you...we cant afford to do XX".

Oh, and whatever you do, don't you even entertain the thought of letting her take your kids out of the country! The kids passports should be at your relative's house and they should be on the do no fly registry ASAP. Get custody orders written up so they can be immediately filed if you sense something is up. It might be hard for you to come to grips with this notion, but if she gets them to her home country, they are never coming back.

[25yearsmlc]

Its amazing how effective proper validation can be with a WAS. Its hard to demonize someone who is just mirroring and emphasizing with you.

Agreed.

However, one issue that happens a lot right about now is once you start validating their feelings, the WAS will then start looking for validation of their plans and actions.

NOT so sure about this^^. I think the more you validate (appropriately) the more you UNDERMINE their negative views of you. The smaller the reason they have for leaving you...


In your case, her thinking might be that if you agree that its soooooo sad that she is homesick with no chance to reconnect with OM, then she will think you must also agree that the best course of action is for you to pay her alimony while she goes back to her home country for her OM, I mean education.

Aside from the negative mind reading confusion that this^^ creates, I don't believe it follows anyhow. At least NOT if he's doing the validation correctly. Validation is NOT agreement. Be clear about that. It means you HEAR her and you SEE her point of view, NOT that you hold that point of view, just that you can see it's hers...for now.

And her views, like yours, can change/evolve.



Ive seen people start moving from validating to bargaining before they even realize it.

Not sure what this^^ means or how it applies to this situation. I know I'm not suggesting that he "bargain" w/her.


The trick is sticking with your boundaries on facts and actions while validating her feelings. Agree with her that it must be really tough for her, but dont even discuss plans that are unacceptable to you. Im not an expert in validation, but from negotiating experience things like 'I' statements for validating and passive voice and 'we' for expressing boundaries can work well - eg "I understand this is difficult for you...the kids cant leave the country right now; I know not getting to do XX right now is difficult for you...we cant afford to do XX".

When did she say she wanted to take the kids for good to her country? And btw, if she wants to take them, I'm NOT advising you to do so. I AM advising you to see a lawyer BEFORE any plans are made.

Most countries, but not all, have reciprocity to allow exchanges with the kids. If you are granted half or joint custody, and if the country in question has that agreement in place, you can make it enforceable. As in, in THEIR country it gets enforced. My SIL did this years ago and helped pass the relevant legislation, by going on TV and in front of Congress, testifying about how hard it is to enforce an agreement from OUR nation, in anothers. But that has changed with certain countries. Is she from the middle East? That's harder...

But it IS a problem easily avoided by NOT allowing the kids to go overseas without any agreement in force...if she abducts the kids, well, is that even a realistic fear? Fade, Why are we going there?

Oh, and whatever you do, don't you even entertain the thought of letting her take your kids out of the country! The kids passports should be at your relative's house and they should be on the do no fly registry ASAP.


this^^ sounds provoking and a bit over the top to me. Just mho.

Get custody orders written up so they can be immediately filed if you sense something is up.

What? There are NO orders "written up" if they are not also filed w/a court--or they're NOT enforceable.

So, are you advising him to get a "practice agreement" she has NOT agreed to, OR for him to file for a separation, or divorce or what?? I'm confused.

It might be hard for you to come to grips with this notion, but if she gets them to her home country, they are never coming back.

SIGH...that depends.

I concede it makes it harder but as a L, I can say it does DEPEND...on the nation, on the agreement, on the ages of the children and what they want and how disruptive it'd be for them to move there OR back here...

IMO, This is a lot of fear projection.