Keeping my wife from walking out

[25yearsmlc]

Ok, thanks for the advice on giving her space and time.

Why then is she contradicting that?

we don't know. What has your wife SAID SHE NEEDS FROM YOU

that you are not giving her, NOW?

AND in the past?? Pay particular attention to comments she repeats.





She says she needs to feel loved with passion and confidence (where right now she feels none of that from me), and as time goes on she is feeling more lonely.

then you are confusing "Detachment" with being too distant. They are not the same.

Like I say, most previous attempts by me at giving her space have been met with the accusation that I am just avoiding her because I want her to make the first step at showing affection.

2 questions...any truth to that second part? IF SO, lose the scorecard asap.

Keeping score (of the "Wrongs against us" which "love does not keep a record of...") is the biggest obstacle to resolving our marriage problems, imo. There's just no way to stay married HAPPILY if you keep score.

Plus the other spouse has their own score card and on theirs. we are not doing nearly as well as WE thought on OURS...b/c we measure differently and we each attach DIFFERENT feelings and different levels of intensity to each event, some events the other spouse does not even recall, let alone see the same way.

IF you keep score, you can't forgive and if you cannot forgive, you cannot be happy b/c every spouse, no matter how loving, hurts their loved one at some point.

I never saw forgiveness growing up so it IS a learned skill AND it's a process which takes time. How was forgiveness modelled in your childhood?

And as to the first...are you avoiding her and if so, WHY? Don't assume avoiding conflict actually reduces the amount of conflict.

I think conflict avoidance leads invariably to MORE SERIOUS CONFLICT in the long run...

or a very repressed and resentful spouse...


In addition, she says she has a limited time frame--that she can't wait for me for much longer.

Then show more change. What are you waiting for, HER? The LBS spouse has to make the first move, and the second and the next 199...that's how it is. DO now wait for her or for "it" to happen.

Take charge of your life and lead. It's attractive.


When I hear that is when I start to feel somewhat panicked. I'm doing 100% better at keeping that feeling hidden from her in our interactions, but it still follows me at periods throughout the day.

Take a breath. No SINGLE act or gesture or comment or omission will cost you your marriage.

But do NOT show her the neediness now. No clinging. Just leading and showing the passionate desiring on your end, at that. BUT Without needing!

Don't get me wrong, I hate it that my wife feels this way about me now, and I want to do whatever possible to help take those feelings away.


Focus on YOU and YOUR behavior. Do NOT attach results to her reaction or you give her too much power. Do you get this?

I understand most of this is about me, and I am willing to do whatever it takes to fix the unhealthy behavior I have contributed to our marriage. If it means that I have to fully back off and mostly focus on me and the kids then I will absolutely do it. Obviously what I've been doing has not been working. DR has been ordered and is on the way.

I'm not just relying on the book either--I'm doing some serious reflection on the things I did or didn't do that caused my wife to lose respect/feelings for me, and I really think I've made some positive changes in those areas.

I think a lot of things over time will be smoothed out, but I don't understand why my wife feels like the situation is so intolerable right now. Is it the pressure I'm directly or indirectly putting on her? I'm concerned that even though I don't say it, she feels that I am expecting her to just "snap out of it" and realize things are going to be OK. This is what I so desperately need to fix or change, because I think it is at the crux of our current stalemate, and why she feels like she has no choice but to leave.

Oh, for 7720, my daughters are 8 and 4.

[25yearsmlc]

READ the books asap and really take it in.

It is not like other approaches but without it, I am POSITIVE I would be divorced b/c I would have filed.

[SM34]

Um, this is an interesting sitch. When i was reading all your posts, I'm not sure why but i got the impression that her sighing and frustrated behavior only started AFTER you had the conversation with her where she asked you why you didn't do certain things to save your marriage etc.

Not sure if this makes sense because I am only new to DBing myself. But, in DR, Michelle talks about how the WAS will sometimes exhibit anger and frustration when the LBS seems to understand what they did wrong and has begun to fix those issues.

She has basically been telling you that you need to "love her like a man". Depending on what culture she is from, that might actually mean "I need a manly man, not a wuss". In my culture of origin, men need to wear the pants if you know what I mean. Well, when you stood up to her about taking the kids overseas, you should her that you have balls.

When you explained to her why you didn't do certain things, and that it was because she was telling you one thing and then doing something else (mixed messages), you might have struck a nerve and made her realize that.

So to me her frustration is almost because you are "getting it" and that makes her reason for leaving not so convincing to her. Again, I might be reading this wrong, but that is the impression i get.

Also, when she says she needs more of you "emotionally" I don't think you should interpret that as hugs and kisses and physical affection. I think you pointed out that in your good days she would talk a lot and you would listen. That is when your relationship worked the best.

So, i would try to engage her in conversation that you know enables her to talk a lot. You know the topics she likes to talk about. Perhaps its other people, perhaps its about places, perhaps its about things that happen in her day. Then look for ways to throw in a few words that keep the conversation going, and allow her to talk some more.

Listen carefully for any EMOTIONS. Listen for anger, frustration, relief, happiness, sadness etc.. any emotions. Then, validate them!

Tips from AnotherStander that are working well for me:

When she says "I was so angry when blah blah happened". Tell her "Wow, yes you seem angry about it even now. How angry were/are you?". When she says "yes i was very angry/happy/frustrated" validate again. Say "I see/understand your frustration/anger, and you have every right to feel that way. Tell me more".... Keep the conversation going and let her talk talk talk. You listen and validate, and keep the convo going.

I think this is what she means by needing you emotionally. She is a talker, and at some point you stopped "listening" and that is why she feels neglected. Not from lack of physical touch. At least that is my analysis.

Can any pros shed some light?

[25yearsmlc]

Hi AS, yes I have the 5 Love Languages book. My W and I started reading it together in December but she told me she didn't want to any more because it was too painful to see how I had stopped meeting her needs. I continued for a little while on my own, but stopped during the holidays. Need to restart...
I have also just realized that a 180 just means doing the opposite (or different) from what I had been doing. My approach of just giving her a lot of space is not working. If anything it seems to make her feel more neglected. It IS like a dance FY, thanks for that analogy.

We used to talk endlessly about anything. She's a huge talker, I am somewhat less of a talker but we meshed pretty well on that end. Now there are long periods of silence where I get uncomfortable because I can't think of anything to talk about. She's challenging me because she's not initiating conversation, and I'm failing. This is a topic where I think I can make some quick progress. I noticed that when we talk for extended periods, we seem to just feel closer.

OK, item 1: more conversation. Thanks guys. I'll report back.

if you ever read Dale Carnegie's book on "How to Win Friends & Influence People" you'd have found that when you need conversation, MOST people enjoy talking about themselves.

SO ASK HER questions. Consider it an interview of sorts. Think ahead of what you'll ask and then, ask intelligent follow ups b/c if you just read from a script, it'll show you are not listening to her answers.

So ask, and LISTEN and process it. Don't argue with it. LEARN about her. Be interested in her. One question may lead to so much conversation, that it's all you need. Save the other questions for some other time if that happens.

This way there's no pressure for you to become "Mr. Entertaining!" You don't need that. You just need better interactions. Less pressure. And if she gives you one word answers, don't ask questions that yield those.

Ask how something made her feel, how her day at work was or w/the kids, etc.

What she thought of some current event or a family situation, etc.

Make sense?

[25yearsmlc]

Well, obviously all the things I thought I had been doing to keep her from going did not work. Last night she told me that she called the property management company and asked them to give the tenant 60 days to leave the house. So she will move in there, but not until April 1st.

I guess in a way it's good because she's still here. We still sleep in the same bed, ML occasionally and she still is giving me the green light to continue working to salvage the situation. That is a huge positive.


I think she is pretty dead set on leaving though, because she now wants to "prove" that she can make it on her own.

This may not be the worst thing that could happen to her. AND your work might be easier to do without her there, grading you.

She tells me that she still senses fear in most of my interactions with her, and that my confidence has not improved at all. These are deep-seated issues, and things that I need to work hard to change.

She gave you a valuable piece of intel. Fear is NOT attractive to any woman. Lacking confidence also isn't appealing. Stop checking her reactions (or hide it better).

Yes these are deep seated issues of YOURS and it's not her job to repair them. IT's solely your responsibility to become confident as a good man in this world. She cannot teach you that (or you'd already feel that way b/c you thought the marriage was good even when you admitted being too dependent on her).

Are you seeing a good t for YOU? Look up a workshop called Essential Experience (EE) and or Imago. They work on personal issues. EE is for individuals although sometimes couples go (usually they go separately so they don't feel inhibited with their spouse there). I'm not sure if Imago does individualized work, but you need it.

No shame in that. I went and found EE profoundly helpful. IT changed my life so much (this was 20 years ago) that after a few months, my h went himself. Mind you, our marriage was not our issue then. We both had some childhood baggage that affected us and when he saw my changes and the improvement in how I handled family dynamics and work and motherhood, etc, HE decided to go. He told me once that it was the "Best gift" he ever got. Since he's not the type of man to seek out personal growth workshops, that says a lot.

Anyhow, since you recognize you have deep seated issues to work on, that must be your focus.

Good luck, I think no matter what SHE does, you will be a better man for this. Don't scoff at that; it's huge.

((( )))



I got the DR book over the weekend, and am reading it/practicing as much as possible.

The book is key. It will translate a lot of what we say here too. But realize that the personal issues you have won't all be covered in the book of course.

So do that work--the real journey in life is an inward one.

Dig deep. Be brave about what you seek. I think down deep what you'll find under the layers of fear and pain from your past

is a good man who wants to fully love and be fully loved.

When you Learn to ditch those fears, you'll see that they do NOT serve you well.

[E2Dad]

Thanks a lot guys!! However, it's definitely over....yesterday was the final straw for her, and now I think she is bordering on hating me.

Friday I found out that she started contacting the OM again. She said she will continue doing so going forward, since we will be separating soon. I told her it was not acceptable for her to contact him while living in this house with me paying the bills still. She agreed to stop until she moves out. I tried to deal with it the best I could, and I really felt like we had come to some understanding about what was happening--that it was for the best right now. Our interactions after that were much better--happy and upbeat again. I thought it would be a much better transition from all living together to the 3 of them moving out.

Yesterday she told me she found out a university in her country offers a bachelors degree much cheaper than can be found in the states, and all a person would have to do is show up quarterly to take a test. So she is enrolled and is planning on going in June. Since we will be separated by then, she asked for my support with our Daughters...like taking care of them for the 7-10 days she will be gone.

She was so happy and lively--like I haven't seen in months. However, I counteracted that with near silence and a generally crappy attitude. I know for sure the romance between her and the OM will be rekindled on that trip, and now she has an excuse to see him every 3 months. I told her I would absolutely take care of the kids--they're mine too and I'll do whatever to be with them whenever I can. I told her the bachelors degree was a great idea, but I was clearly agitated and upset by what the trip meant.

She started crying and left the house, returning shortly to tell me I am only concerned for my own happiness and that she can't stand my passive-aggressive behavior any more. She then moved out of our room into the spare bedroom and told me she will be changing the legal sep paperwork to divorce. She says she now feels nothing but hate for me, and she is dying inside having to wait until April to move out. She says I am sick, and have no capacity to be happy and support someone else.

Today she is seeing an attorney. So that's it. I have no chance.

[MrBond]

"Today she is seeing an attorney. So that's it. I have no chance."

You know you do don't you? It's up to you on whether you're willing to do what it takes.

[stilllookingup]

I agree with MrBond. It’s up to you if you still want to fight to save it.

“Listen what your spouse is telling you”
Do you think she’ll feel sorry for you and she’ll want to save you if you act that way? In a situation like that I used get quiet and give an attitude like you just did hoping he’d sense it, feel sorry and correct it. One time I did something he didn’t like, and he said calmly “What I said doesn’t mean anything to you? I said no” I knew right away I shouldn’t have done what I did but I was ashamed, embarrassed and quite frankly didn’t know what to say. I looked away, stayed quiet until I could say something clever. Then he blew up. “I don’t know what to do with you sometimes!” I mean he BLEW UP.

Now I think about it not only he did not like the way I was but he did not like the way he was around old me. I couldn’t make myself happy, he couldn’t make me happy. What’s left for him to do? leave and divorce!

You really need time to yourself big time to collect your thoughts. You need time away from her. Don’t talk to her for a while. THINK.

[25yearsmlc]

Thanks a lot guys!! However, it's definitely over....yesterday was the final straw for her, and now I think she is bordering on hating me.

Did you read the book or are you still just guessing and reacting? Did you read the post I sent to you? B/C it took TIME to write and I'd like to think you'd read it since you evidently don't believe in reading the book this site is based on.



Friday I found out that she started contacting the OM again.

you "found out"? How? What happened to No more snooping?

She said she will continue doing so going forward, since we will be separating soon. I told her it was not acceptable for her to contact him while living in this house with me paying the bills still. She agreed to stop until she moves out. I tried to deal with it the best I could, and I really felt like we had come to some understanding about what was happening--that it was for the best right now.

so you made some demands and she seemed to "obey" (I mean, agree???) and then what? She didn't obey you? Or you snooped or what? I don't see where the OM is in this post. And I wish you'd stop issuing your orders. If you sound to her the way you sound here, it's NOT helping you.

The more aggressively demanding a man is, the needier he is of reassurance. When he does not get it, he demands it more, but it lacks b/c it's not authentic to tell a man who is not in control of himself, that you respect it.

And then the cycle continues UNTIL IF & WHEN the man learns to become self confident from within. That's where real self confidence comes from.


Our interactions after that were much better--happy and upbeat again. I thought it would be a much better transition from all living together to the 3 of them moving out.

Yesterday she told me she found out a university in her country offers a bachelors degree much cheaper than can be found in the states, and all a person would have to do is show up quarterly to take a test. So she is enrolled and is planning on going in June. Since we will be separated by then, she asked for my support with our Daughters...like taking care of them for the 7-10 days she will be gone.

Not sure what relevance this^^ has to the situation or OM. Any? Or just backstory? (Which is fine but I want to know if there's a connection I"m missing. I recall OM is in the other country but it's not a small nation.)


She was so happy and lively--like I haven't seen in months. However, I counteracted that with near silence and a generally crappy attitude.


how did your "counteracting" work for YOU? Did it make you more attractive to her? Did it make her want to be around you more? Did it make YOU feel better? What, if anything, did you learn?

I know for sure the romance between her and the OM will be rekindled on that trip,

Why? B/c you'll keep being miserable to her and around her, or what? How do you "know for sure"?

Do you truly see yourself as helpless in this situation? OR do you simply want to feel as if there's nothing you can do so you can do...nothing?


and now she has an excuse to see him every 3 months. I told her I would absolutely take care of the kids--they're mine too and I'll do whatever to be with them whenever I can. I told her the bachelors degree was a great idea, but I was clearly agitated and upset by what the trip meant.

by what you read into it. And you were NOT happy for her goal setting or pursuit of a goal, b/c you made it all about you.

She started crying and left the house, returning shortly to tell me I am only concerned for my own happiness and that she can't stand my passive-aggressive behavior any more. She then moved out of our room into the spare bedroom and told me she will be changing the legal sep paperwork to divorce. She says she now feels nothing but hate for me, and she is dying inside having to wait until April to move out. She says I am sick, and have no capacity to be happy and support someone else.

any truth to that? Can you at least see why SHE sees you this way? And so, what are you going to do to change that perception?

Should it be MORE of the same, or a 180? And btw, have you finally read the book? This approach would not be the opposite of what you do, if you would just read it.

Today she is seeing an attorney. So that's it. I have no chance.

actually I craved the time my h would see an attorney. His view of the divorce laws in our state varied wildly from reality.

Sometimes actually hearing the reality of divorce from an attorney is the best reality therapy there is.

Stop looking for reasons to give up. It makes you seem lazy and as if you are totally unable to control your mouth or attitude.

And you need a serious attitude adjustment

You must do better. If nothing else, for your kids. What are your GAL activities and your 180s? We hammer them for one reason--they work.

.

[AnotherStander]

She was so happy and lively--like I haven't seen in months. However, I counteracted that with near silence and a generally crappy attitude.

Why? YOU are the one that's supposed to be showing PMA!!! She shows PMA and you respond with crabby-butt. What message does that send her? Well, she told you right here:

She says I am sick, and have no capacity to be happy and support someone else.