I think it's "her territory" and your changes MAY have looked controlling. Not sure. But no, it's not about making her leave.
I can see that I may have stepped on her toes. If she believes that I am controlling (and she DOES), then I think that's what she was actually saying. "You are taking over everything. I should leave since my input doesn't matter anymore."
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
how'd You handle that talk?^^^ Did you call her on any of it?
I showed her the mistake she made. I should have left it at that, but I returned to tell her that I am not the full she makes me out to be. It was just a spiteful dig that, I am sure, did nothing to improve things. She had already seen her error. I'm still learning to shut my mouth.
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
what's with challenging or cornering her into leaving? You want to "teach her a lesson" or "show her the consequences" of her actions? That's not a spouse's job. Life does that for them. Not us. (Per my DB coach).
You are right on this one. That was not well thought out by me.
I do believe she feels unloved by me. I think that she feels she hasn't been able to meet my expectations and my love for her has been conditional. I am attempting to rectify this, but at the same time not pursue. This is a VERY difficult task.
I took your advice and signed up for coaching with Chuck at DB. Our first session was really him just getting to know the dynamics of our situation. He then attempted to fill me in on what to expect.
Chuck looks at my wife as a WAS with MLC going on. Told me the script that she reads from and what her perspective is. That I should expect a bad day after any good day. It's the struggle within her as she reminds herself that she knows me inside out, that I have all these problems and that I will NEVER make a permanent change. This is even though she may have seen improvements in me over the past few months.
We actually had one good day this week. While my wife was away, she invited me to a couples' massage. We used to do these on a regular basis until she gave me the speech. The massage went well. We followed that up with some shopping for clothing for the kids, then she actually said she was hungry and we went to a restaurant. Overall the day went very well. Lots of good signs.
Next day, we hit a bump in the road. I was a little irritated that she had be disappearing after kissing the girls goodnight. She left both evenings after she came home from her trip. She wouldn't return until around midnight. I guess it showed and we had a spat. Nothing big, but when your spouse is looking for reasons to confirm her decision, ANYTHING is major.
In GAL, I have scheduled a day of skiing with a coworker. He and I both have very dynamic work schedules so we have never done anything together before. I'm looking forward to it. I don't usually go out and just have a great time, so this will be good for me. I told my wife I was going skiing with a friend that day. She asked with whom. I told her "with a coworker". Her reply was "that's pretty nondescript". I have said before that she asks where I am going. She tells me where she is going and who she is meeting (always her girlfriends), but she has a history of leaving out information before that she knows I would not like. I think it's good that she wonder.
Today, she is the ice queen. I had invited one couple over for the Super Bowl. Friend of hers and her husband. She then asked me to invite one couple after another until now we have a big clan here. All her friends. Not what I wanted. As soon as her friend showed up, she flipped a switch and was nice. But then, when she saw me talking with her friend, she started shooting me looks that could kill. This is going to me a FUN evening, I can tell..... NOT!
Made it through the evening. Had a good time with the guys. Left the girls to themselves. It's pretty much impossible to carry a conversation with my wife. She really seem like she doesn't want to have anything to do with me. It really comes across as quite juvenile like were are in high school and I don't fit in with her "in" crowd. She treats me like I am socially undesirable. I think we spoke a total of maybe four times all night.
It is quite refreshing when I get a chance to spend time with people away from her. I am so used to getting negative feedback from her that it feels great to experience the sincerity and acceptance of others. I really do have some great friends and I get treated nicely by perfect strangers. Much more kindly than I am treated by my own wife. My wife went from being kind and loving to being my biggest and most harsh critic overnight. Its pretty hard to endure.
I noticed she was wearing her wedding ring today. She put it on prior to everyone arriving. Guess I'll soon find out if it was just for the party or if it is on tomorrow as well.
I do want to thank those of you who have replied to me. It's nice to hear from you, get your insight and a sympathetic ear.
I have a question regarding mystery and GAL. My wife asks where I am going when I say I am headed out for the day. If she asks me with whom I am going and I reply that it is a friend, doesn't that leave another reason for her to NOT trust me? Last night, I reminded her that I would be out skiing today with a friend. Previously, she had asked who the friend was, and I told her a coworker. She then said I wasn't giving her much info. I had walked away after that.
Last night I told her I would be skiing with my friend, Jeff. I didn't want her thinking that I am hooking up with some other girl. Maybe I messed this up. Please let me know. My thinking is that she says she doesn't trust me and how can me planting seeds of doubt like this help when one of my goals is to build trust?
AS, I just started looking through your original posts from when you first signed on here with your crisis. The small amount of your writings that I have read seems very well thought out. Almost as though the whole situation really didn't seem much of a challenge to you.
Wow, not sure how I left that impression but it was indeed a HUGE challenge!! I've been through the worst and lowest points of my life since BD. Horrible depression, extreme anxiety, no sleep for days on end, unable to function at work and home, etc. etc. It's been awful. I started out DB'ing specifically to save my M, but somewhere along the line it became more about saving myself than my M. And it has, I'm now stronger, more confident and happier than I've been in many years. I still hope to reconcile, but I've reached the point of knowing that my happiness and fulfillment in life is not dependent on W returning.
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With my wife still living here, I find it challenging to disconnect. I have read that "Detach" is to disconnect from the emotional roller coaster but without withdrawing. I am searching for ways to show that I am still here, but without pursuing.
I just can't describe detachment any better than Peanut did here:
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II. Detachment
Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.
Attached, we take personally all that is said, not said, done and not done.
Our ego gets wounded and we are more inclined to those actions that will undermine our very best chances of accomplishing our goals.
We cannot control the actions of another. We are, however, responsible for our own actions. We are responsible for our own happiness.
If we are detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love. Met with love we are in a position to diffuse the situation and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals.
On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.
Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not the mind saying, ‘I am not getting what I want so I must pull back.’
It is the natural acceptance that I am alone responsible for how I act. I cannot control another person, but I can control how I respond to them."
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Part of me wants concrete evidence, but part of me beleives that if I ever found anything that would ensure the demise of our relationship and our family. I suffer from swings in my feelings on this subject.
I would suggest tackling this question now. Ask yourself, if you found out she is involved in an A, would you still want to reconcile or is it a deal-killer? Because nearly every WAS is involved in an A. It may be a PA, an EA or even an imaginary affair. In absense of a PA or EA the WAS will conjure an image of an OP that will give them everything they want in life. This doesn't work for everyone, but the way I finally dealt with not knowing if my W was in an affair was to assume that she was. Once I made that assumption it made it easier for me to decide where to go from there. It also took away the desire to snoop. If you assume your W is in an affair, then you have no need to snoop.
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Did laundry for the first time in about 12 years! Nothing turned into doll clothing!
LOL! Congrats
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I have found an increasing workload coming down on me at home. In the past, my wife assumed most of the duties around the house. That was definitely a shortcoming on my part. It's a 180 for me to be SO involved in taking care of everything around here. It feels good, though, and it helps keep my mind off of the things that bother me. It also gives me a sense of well being and accomplishment.
Same here. Part of my anxiety over W leaving was not knowing how all that was going to get done. But once I jumped in and started doing it and discovered it wasn't some dark science that only women know, the anxiety left and I became much more confident I could run things. When W and I were at RetroV one of her comments was that it actually upset her to see me take everything over because she saw that I didn't need her and that I could actually do a better job of housework than she did. That wasn't my intent at all, my intent was to show her I could free her up to do other things. But it just goes to show how the WAS can find something negative in anything the LBS does.
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On a good note, (baby step, maybe?) my wife asked if I would like to schedule a couples massage with her when she returns. We used to do that on a regular basis followed by lunch. I think I will wait to see if she wants to follow up with more later. Then maybe I can call it a baby step.
Sure it is, as Michele says just celebrate it internally and continue with your DB'ing. Don't have any expectations.
P2 and AS, I am into our S a little over 2 weeks. Like you two, I am taking on housework that I hadn't done for a long time and I found it isn't that bad. Prior to BD I had actually done a fair portion of housework although it wasn't 50/50. In addition to 180 and other things it is helping me GAL. On the first weekend W was gone I did a major cleaning of the house and it was really helpful for me as that was a tough weekend. Got my mind off of things and felt better about the house. Doing laundary is not that bad.
Also, make the bed every day because I always liked that. I hadn't made a bed in 20 years.
For me, having the house tidy is good energy and makes me feel good. Makes me feel even better because I'm doing it.
I'm also quite into making meals at home so as to cut down on Chipotle and other quicky food intake. Fairly easy to find healthy recipes that are easy to make and the kids will eat. I'm pretty damn happy with myself.
For me, having the house tidy is good energy and makes me feel good. Makes me feel even better because I'm doing it.
It does give you a sense of well being when you look around and the place looks pretty nice. Probably even better than it has in a while when your WAS has been pretty much been going on strike. I think it was a big surprise to my wife when she walked in the door and the place didn't look like a frat house!
The last couple of days have been interesting. I went skiing with my friend Jeff and had a GREAT time! It was SO good to get involved with something that requires intense concentration. I found myself thinking less and less about the situation I have been dealing with. And having a good friend there made it that much better. This is one of my 180's. Get out and DO stuff with friends. I am new to alpine skiing and it has been a lot of fun trying something new. It's something I can do with our girls and it's also something my wife is interested in as well, so it can be a great family activity if we make it through this storm intact.
During our outing, somehow Jeff ended up mentioning that a while ago he and his wife had endured a very difficult time. Long story short, his wife was having an affair and they managed to pull through it. He was telling me stuff that he learned as he was going through his trials. It sounded to me like he had been getting guidance from DivorceBusting. ALL the stuff he said was stuff you veterans have been telling me. It was nice to hear from someone who had been there and survived. Jeff DOES NOT know my wife or live anywhere near us, so no fear of boomerang effect.
My wife DID end up hearing back from someone I had talked to and I DID catch the boomerang in the face on that one yesterday. If there are any Newbies here, DO NOT TALK TO ANYONE WHO IS EVEN REMOTELY CONNECTED TO YOUR SPOUSE ABOUT ANY OF YOUR DIFFICULTIES! IT WILL BITE YOU!
I also had been sensing that my wife was starting to try to compete with me in things that she was doing with our girls. She hit me yesterday that she felt that I was doing stuff that I never did before with our kids and she interpreted it as an attempt to win the kids over to me. It really saddens me to hear her talking to me as if I am her adversary. I am trying to figure out ways to do things with our children that will not cause my wife to feel threatened.
AS, thank you for the tip on detachment. It has helped me immensely. That definition really does a great job of helping me understand just what is required of me during this crisis. It has helped me really get my head around how to handle the vicious attacks that my wife hurls at me when she's expressing her anger.
I am still wearing my ring. I have decided that I will use it as a reminder of the promise I made years ago. I will take it off only if my wife decides she is absolutely done and the courts declare it so. So far, that hasn't happened. Thanks, LB!
I am finding that no matter what the subject, I have to be VERY careful in how I word things that I say, or my wife will interpret my words to be an attack on her and then she starts in on me. I sometimes get to the point where I just don't say much of anything, because I will come under attack.
I just called it a night because my wife was chewing on me again. We were going to watch some tv together (her invitation). I had said something earlier about not having any problems out of our eldest daughter for a week while she was gone. She interpreted that as me saying that the problems we have out of our daughter don't happen when I'm in charge, and the verbal assault began. I attempted to explain that that was not what I meant by what I had said, but to no avail. No matter what I said, she would re-engage on me. I finally said I was just going to call it a night and I left. Trying to remember that this is a test. Don't know if I passed or failed. Definitely didn't come across as happy and content, but I didn't blow my top either. Time will tell.
