Wife lost in the MLC-We are now separated 2

[25yearsmlc]

So W just stopped by to finally pickup her dog. She texted this morning and said she had an appointment in another town and she’d pick him up later, not a request, but a statement. She showed up at 4pm. No thanks nothing…Not unusual. As soon as she walked in she started in on my about reviewing the divorce agreement and could I take a look at it and let her know of any changes. NOTE: I was on a conference call with others when she insisted we start this conversation.

CALMLY inform her of that fact and tell her you'll review it in private and call her later. End of discussion.


She kept saying she was soooo busy , had to do all this stuff and had people yelling at her, etc.

She asked when I would review the divorce documents. I said that I was not in any hurry since I have a lot of stuff on my plate right now. She became upset and said that she wants to ‘move on” and not spend months reviewing the document. I said that I don’t’ see this taking months. My grandmother is in the hospital and is not doing very well. She did say she was sorry about my grandmother. I am also still reeling from my mom passing away last October of last year.


that sounds very difficult for you. I've lost people in rapid succession and it's very wearing.

But the property discussion is not that complicated, is it really? Why not keep it simple and tell her you'll get to it within ....some amount of time (2 weeks?) and do it that way. The deaths in the family are sad and I've been there. But reading the property division is Not like reviewing a child custody arrangement with new step parents. Is it really super complicated?

I think It will appear to be you stalling, and it IS you stalling. Which she'll see as manipulative, and let's face it... it is.


I went on to say something about not feeling like I had her support during this time….


SIGH

How was that blame dart, helpful or relevant? You just sound petty and bitter when you remark like that. It's not attractive.

Plus it means you'll NEVER let go of this event so she cannot return to you anyhow. You hold onto things from the past, choose to see them your way and not move at all to her viewpoint...

so if you want to keep the Road home, paved and smooth, bringing up your perception of past grievances, makes it harder...




Which she piped up that she was there and supported me.

did you argue with that?


I said that I had lost four major people in my life last year (including my mom illness and death and cousin) and that this is still weighing on my heart and mind. I probably did say this to make her feel guilty and I shouldn’t have.

absolutely you did. Guilting is manipulation below the belt. It's not attractive.

And the Thing is--one Russian author said "when a man feels guilt, he attacks."

Guilting someone ALWAYS backfires. No one comes home & stays b/c of guilt. IF she's ever to feel it, it'll have to be of her own volition. Otherwise, when you try to guilt her, you look weak/petty and it always converts, SO whatever guilt she MAY have felt, converts into resentment of you...the "cause" of her guilt. That is what guilting does.


I did think to myself that she showed up physically at my parents’ home during my mom’s illness and death, but she spent the majority of time texting with the OW. I did not say that. Not a good things to toss out there, I know!!! [b] I said that my family is my priority and her and the divorce document is not at this moment. STHU is what I should have done! Thank you, point taken. [/b]

you have stated twice in a short time that you MUST learn to STHU. What do you think it'll take for you to do so? How many times? I'm asking.

I got very frustrated because she just kept stating didn't know why I was trying to hold up reviewing the document and she is ready to "moving on". I will also say that she would not say ready to divorce, but used “move on”.


If a woman is holding divorce papers n her hand that she wants you to sign, but uses the words "move on" instead of "divorce", I would NOT read anything into that.

IMO, She is softening the blow with her choice of words.

She thinks she wants a divorce. That's what she had in her hands, right? If you want to read into something, read into her actions, not the use of, or omission of, words.



I said that I want to review and make sure I feel comfortable with the document and that I'll let her know.

Keep it simple and begin/end with that. NONE of the rest of the backstory which she witnessed anyhow. She did not forget your mom died.


She then started to freak out about how she was being more than generous with her future earnings and that she's talked to several people, lawyer, financial planner, etc . who all told her she was being very generous. She then said I should be happy I’m getting a great deal with her sharing 40% of her stocks with me.


What do you mean "she began to freak out?" ALSO

Is there ANY truth to her claim that she's giving you more than she "must"? In this state it would be the case. If so, admit it! Appreciate it. YES, that's what I said. Here is why-

My db coach said to "applaud loudly for the 1% of positives they do." Of course I know that is hard. It's Mother Teresa hard.

But I HIGHLY suggest you do that as a 180, starting now. I know it's not easy but it IS simple.

And it Gives her something to live UP to, not to fulfill your negative views of her. Please, please stop criticizing her.

Your Anger won't get her back. And it is consuming YOU, not her. It comes out from you here, in nearly every paragraph.

Not many WAWs, IF ANY, come home to an angry h.


Another thing she said is that I should not fight her on this since she feels she is being nice about all of this. I said that her interpretation of the law in our state about division of assets/earnings is how she sees it and I’m not sure how that works and that I still want to review the document and make sure I’m comfortable with it. She was not happy.

So, she may be correct in her legal assessment?

I said that I would go to the counselor to work through the divorce agreement. She reminded me that this was a divorce counselor NOT a counselor to help us get back together. I said I know and that I will not go to the mediator again since we paid $$ and did not get anything usable. She got testy about that and said something about the counselor is the same thing as a mediator. I said I felt like we were rushed through the mediation and I did not feel comfortable with the process being quick and not really understanding the facts. I think she agreed, but in her theatrics I couldn’t really tell.


Wasn't this ^^ all said just the day before, pretty much?? And if she is giving more than the law requires of her, don't poo poo that.

You must be able to empathize with her. See her point of view even if you do not agree with it. Take in her "data" and process it.

In HER mind, she's not wrong to leave the marriage. And in HER mind, she's being generous b/c she was Not happy in the marriage.

I don't see how arguing the point will help you at all.


I also said that we still need to decide what to do with the boat we own together before I would sign anything. She said that we could co-own it…Oh Really! Or that one of us could buy the other out.

well, um, those ARE the only options, other than selling it. What's your idea?

Since a divorce paper is ONLY a piece of paper, what's to stop you from signing it and still letting her see the new improved you? She won't think you have an agenda, b/c the divorce will be done.

I asked you before if you understood that

she will ONLY come home if/when she believes marriage to you,
can be better/different than before.

Showing her your anger and pain isn't showing her that, at all.

Can you think of actions or words that would show her that you are a different man and that you two could interact and communicated more kindly and effectively?

FOCUS ON 2-3 of those, and implement asap.


I asked if she wanted to buy it and she said she would if she could afford it. I said go for it if that’s what she wants, but I still want to think about what I wanted.

SIGH...these are wasted opportunities...you keep getting chances to interact, which you KNEW was going to happen, and then blowing it. You must learn more self control.

INSTEAD of arguing with her or stalling, Be upbeat and interested in her life. (NOT OMs, but HER). Be LESS predictable. Are you doing ANY GAL? What are your 180s? SHOW HER SOME...imply them at least.

Can you fake as if you are GAL? When are you going to at least act as if you have had an awakening?

See, your mistakes are sort of beginner's and I will post you a note about what NOT to do and what TO DO, when you get the bomb.


It won't make things worse and it MIGHT help you at least feel better and seem stronger. And if you read Crimson's thread, you'll see a lot of progress towards a reconciliation in his sitch. Regardless of what happens there, HE is a MUCH better man for this experience and he started out getting a LOT of flack from posters like me.


But he is a changed man. And now POST DIVORCE, they are moving towards each other...learn from that. Don't fight the paper so much that she'll get angrier and angrier, if the only object you are squabbling about is an object AND IF it's not even in your interests to stall...b/c if she is giving you a better than required deal, think long & hard about angering her

when instead, you could be friends, and then get her to feel relaxed around you and then safe...safe enough to let the good memories resurface in her mind.

Then, who knows?


I was pulled back onto my call and she was upset and left saying something about talking (I doubt that) later.

I know, don't argue with her again I did not do any good for this process. She totally ambushed me while I was on a call and I reacted and did not respond.

she "ambushed" you, how? You knew she was coming. Did you think she would not bring up the divorce? After yesterdays' talk got her nowhere?

But okay she was late, right? Excuse your callers for 30 seconds and tell her, CALMLY, "w, I was expecting you earlier and now I'm on a conference call for WORK, so we're going to have to re-schedule. Let me know when it's good for you."

See? No blaming her for being late b/c she KNOWS she was late. No anger. Just calm strong firm reaction from you which also would have achieved the desired goal, more time to think and review.

So next time, and there WILL be at least one more 'next time", if she is on time, you sit down and calmly agree to whatever your Lawyer has said to.

(you can hire them by the hour and they can review the paperwork).

In my state a mediator is rarely a good idea with a long marriage b/c it's formulaic so, no need. But maybe in your situation it's a good idea. If I recall right, your m was less than 10 years and common law does not apply right?

Fyi, I'm a L. Yet I did not do my own divorce work. (Nor did we divorce in the end)

But I hired a divorce lawyer when h went MLC on me, and left town 3 times without informing me...

my point is, I'd never trust a non specialist or a mediator, (who is not necessarily a L), with my life savings OR the most important people in my life, our children.

I don't really see the big money saving of hiring all these people instead of just 2 lawyers who can do it in under 10 hours each, USUALLY.

MLC is expensive and divorce CAN be. Slowing it down rarely saves money. So be wise. Pick your battles carefully.

To me it sounded as if you battled every single thing she said, AND then brought up your perception of her behavior in the past, which was irrelevant and unpleasant.

It's called "scorecarding" or "record keeping" or the Blame Game, and when it relates to the past it's even more poisonous.

PLus HER card is NOT the same as yours. I'll bet to HER she was a pillar of support to you OR at least she did her best. Now, instead of a bonding memory of you two at your mom's funeral or around her death, she gets to feel your anger/blame. Which to her will be more unfair stuff from you.

Did she do all the housework or make any arrangements for you? Did she pick up the slack anywhere?

Did she take off work at all? Did she help pay for something?

Did she go to the funeral, cry at it, hug or pat you or comfort you in any way? That is support.

What was it that you wanted her to do, that you communicated to her, that she did not do?

If you did not tell her what you needed from her, she cannot be blamed for not mind reading. Do you get that?

it's OUR job, and ours only, to tell our loved ones and our world/work/neighbors, what we need and to get it ourselves when we can.

It's not theirs to glean from the universe and act on.
ALSO-
Know that even if you do divorce, it does NOT have to be over for good.

I think I mentioned, I have 2 family members who divorced and later, years later, remarried their former spouses. So my uncle died with his family all around him, instead of dying alone in some hospital ward.

But the angrier you are, the more likely the divorce will be final. Your anger prevents her from letting good memories resurface, or from even being able to be around you much.

What kind of memories do you want her last ones of you, to be like?

I say, Give her a man she'll miss.

At this point I’m not sure I actually care what she thinks or does or whether I pi$$ her off. I do not like the person she is right now.


Be honest. Do you like the person you are right now? I can't find where something she has SAID has been out of line. I know you feel rushed but she feels it's overdue.

Maybe I missed something really rude on her end. All I read was that a woman in a long r, but short m, wants out of m and you don't, SO SHE must be crazy or in MLC. This is why I detest the time spent on labels for WASs. IT deflects our attention and focus from the only person we control, US.

I do not recall what YOU are working on in you to become a better you.

You use "crazyland" and "MLC" terms a lot but you dont' seem very focussed on how YOU can use this ordeal to become a better man or husband.

That means you are missing the ONE UPSIDE to this nightmare.

Which is personal growth in YOU. Instead of making ALL of this about HER, what about YOU?

WHY/HOW would SHE believe marriage to you could be better or different, from this day forward?

The angrier you are and show it, the more likely she'll think you'll hold this time over her head forever. Everytime you two fight, are you going to throw it in her face? What are you doing to grow or improve?



A funny side note is that she was again wearing her wedding band we exchanged several years ago and started fiddling with it during our discussion.

She just texted to say she was sorry she pushed me and sorry that my grandmother is sick….?????

Sounds like a gesture of kindness. Why all the ?'s? If it doesn't play well with your narrative of how "crazy/cruel" she is, maybe your narrative is too biased.



She went on to say that I know you have been through a lot in the past year but it is not fair to say that I was not there…(Note: Yes it is since she wasn’t).

you must stop the carping. You are so argumentative it would be hard to spend time around that. You have, I think, doubted or debated every single thing she said. WHY?

Don't you see how that just confirms her choice/desire to leave you?

She said she was there through all of their deaths. (Yes she was, if you don’t mind nonstop texting with OW).



this is SO NOT helping YOU.

you mean to say that b/c she texted OW, & for THAT reason alone, she "wasn't there for you"?

Also you use the term "OW".

Is your wife newly gay, or are you both? (I didn't pick up on it so if it's true, I apologize for not noticing).

Or is this a friend of hers? If it's a friend you refer to as OW, then your behavior must really seem unreasonable to her.

Is it possible she was lonely & unhappy in the marriage, but still wanted to try to be decent to you, but her needs were met by talks with OW?

The "texting OW non stop" wording sounds like you are enlarging it. I mean, did she text AT THE FUNERAL? During the service? At the grave too?

Exaggeration lessens credibility. All I'm saying is I'm not surprised that she won't agree with your take on it. I wish you could see a little of her view point b/c I doubt it is totally baseless.

AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, BTW, if you succeed or "win" and get her to feel like a failure about that time in your life, it would make it LESS likely that she'd come back to you, NOT more likely. Guilt isn't a motivator to return to a long term r.




And finally she said that she wanted to make sure I was not going to put the document in a drawer and avoid it for three months. I get the feeling she thinks I’m a procrastinator like she is.

um, but YOU HAVE been stalling and you freely admit it here.

You are procrastinating every step of the way. At least she's not attributing a nefarious motive to your procrastination, like being vindictive or manipulative.

You must dig deep within YOU and realize that the real journey in life is an inward one.

I made that journey and it's not an easy oe. It was sad and frightening at times b/c of the amount of anger I used to justify punishing my h. "Teaching him a lesson!" FELT RIGHT TO ME.

But is wasn't right. It's not my job to teach my h a lesson and it's not loving either. Plus it sure hurt our r. So no, it doesn't even help us which makes it totally crazy to keep doing.

Lose the anger. You really have to. But I didn't begin to lose my fury until I realized it consumed ME, not my h.

H saw me as more of a shrew, not a victim. And I was so angry that my focus was not on my work or my kids but on MY ANGER...my "self righteous anger".

ironically even if i were "right", so what? That's not what brought him back! Do you want to be "right" or happy?

Letting him go, GAL and the rest of DBing saved me, and eventually our m.


Why the hell can’t I follow the program and stop causing my own issues. Maybe it’s because I’m sinking my own ship.

Great question!

So dig deep and figure out how, inside the marriage, you did this as well.

I seriously doubt it's all new behavior of yours.

I think the blame game sounds quite old, and you refuse to see her point of view even now when she offers one.

I didn't say you have to agree, but if you cannot or did not express your needs and she didn't mind read, that's on you.

Be the best YOU that you can be and then, once you have done so, turn it over. To HIM. Leave the results up to Him.